history of urdu/Hindi/khariboli

[W.11]

what is the oldest literature/verse/inscription exhibiting intelligible urdu/hindi/khariboli dialect, there are examples from mir khusro 13-14th century AD but is there any older writing?

 

[Old School]

None. These are relatively new dialects. Nevertheless, people in the subcontinent follow oral traditions as opposed to literal traditions in other cultures. Record keeping in writing has never been a part of subcontinental culture. That is also why the history of subcontinent is mixture of myth and stories.

 

[W.11]

Record keeping in writing has never been a part of subcontinental culture

record keeping and history are two diff things.

regards

 

[Old School]

record keeping and history are two diff things.

regards

Historical research needs various forms of records as primary evidence among other. Heresy can hardly constitute history.

 

[SIPRA]

what is the oldest literature/verse/inscription exhibiting intelligible urdu/hindi/khariboli dialect, there are examples from mir khusro 13-14th century AD but is there any older writing?

There is a sentence, spoken by Khawaja Fariduddin Masud Shakarganj, which, in my opinion, is the oldest recorded sample of "Hindvi". I would give you the sentence and its detailed reference tomorrow.

 

[W.11]

Historical research needs various forms of records as primary evidence among other. Heresy can hardly constitute history.

Kharavela inscription indicates record keeping was done since ancient periods, but history was given lesser importance.

regards

 

[Old School]

Kharavela inscription indicates record keeping was done since ancient periods, but history was given lesser importance.

regards

Where are those records as you couldn't find them beyond 12th century ? How old is that inscription that made the claim ? If a language is new, if is unlikely to have older records.

 

[W.11]

Where are those records as you couldn't find them beyond 12th century ? How old is that inscription that made the claim ?

kharavela inscription is dated to 2nd century BC which mentions eras as well, there are recorded inscription which show there was active record keeping due to presence of two distinct eras, saka and vikram samvat indicates good efforts in standardizing record keeping.

regards

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

The word itself Ordu was brought by Turks ... to be specific Babur... Zuban-e-Ordu-e-Muala was the camp language... some mixture of Persian, Turkish and Arabic... Ordu Bazar was Camp Market ... that is when Moguls took over they applied this nomenclature to Delhi itself... where it didn't exist before... it is until later that the camp language mixed with existing Muslim discourse and took it's modern shape as Urdu... it is also important to note that Muslim academics were extremely partial against Khariboli and did want to associate themselves with it ... whereas today most people contend Khariboli as a prelude to Urdu itself... enough from me...

 

[SIPRA]

what is the oldest literature/verse/inscription exhibiting intelligible urdu/hindi/khariboli dialect, there are examples from mir khusro 13-14th century AD but is there any older writing?

Mention of language "Hindvi" goes back to eleventh century. I would provide the detailed reference tomorrow.

 

[W.11]

The word itself Ordu was brought by Turks ... to be specific Babur... Zuban-e-Ordu-e-Muala was the camp language... some mixture of Persian, Turkish and Arabic... Ordu Bazar was Camp Market ... that is when Moguls yook over they applied this nomenclature to Delhi itself... where it didn't exist before... it is until later that the camp language mixed with existing Muslim discourse and took it's moder shape as Urdu... it is also important to note that Muslim academics were extremely partial against Khariboli and did want to associate themselves with it ... whereas today most people contend Khariboli as a prelude to Urdu itself... enough from me...

urdu is an indo aryan language, not a creole/pidgin based on ''mixture of persian, turkic and arabic'', the iggest proof is mutually intelligile various dialects like hindi, awadhi, luknavi, khariboli etc.

regards

 

[Old School]

kharavela inscription is dated to 2nd century BC which mentions eras as well, there are recorded inscription which show there was active record keeping due to presence of two distinct eras, saka and vikram samvat indicates good efforts in standardizing record keeping.

regards

If this kharavela inscription is from the 2nd century BC , why you said that you couldn't find older than 12th century in your original post ?

 

[W.11]

If this kharavela inscription is from the 2nd century BC , why you said that you couldn't find older than 12th century in your original post ?

kharavela inscription as in tradition of record keeping, i was not referring it as khariboli/hindvi example

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

urdu is an indo aryan language, not a creole/pidgin based on ''mixture of persian, turkic and arabic'', the iggest proof is mutually intelligile various dialects like hindi, awadhi, luknavi, khariboli etc.

regards

I didn't say it is creole... the early court language as Moguls called was not intelligible with local populations(a form of dari of sorts)... Most Mogul emperors learnt at least one native language... it was only Shah Alam who spoke a native Muslim discourse in Hindvi took it and made it a court language... of course that already had both it's native discourse subsequent royal patronage. But, as I said earlier... even then as I said early writers distinguished between Khariboli and Urdu... to understand the lineage you can ask someone who is proficient in both written and spoken Urdu to read Dari and see how much of it is still intelligible... this after almost two centuries of divergence in the two forms...

 

[Indus Pakistan]

hat is the oldest literature/verse/inscription exhibiting intelligible urdu/hindi/khariboli dialect

So in one swipe you settled that of repeated issue. Urdu and Hindi are the same languages. Thanks ..