Hindu militants in Kashmir insurgency killed

[karan.1970]

its a war between foreign forces and local Kashmiris

Its a bogey Pakistan uses to brainwash local kashmiri (somewhat successfully) and international audience (failing miserably since last few years)

 

[Tshering22]

The whole Kashmir problem was because the indigenous Hindu, Sikh and Buddhist communities were nearly exterminated by Muslims in the valley... why the hell would they create militancy against their fellow people? But perhaps, anything is possible in Pakistanis' imagination. . NBTV? wow! I never knew such unknown jokers could get such an intense news when NDTV, IBN-7 and other cronies are out there hungry for such news.

 

[53fd]

The whole Kashmir problem was because the indigenous Hindu, Sikh and Buddhist communities were nearly exterminated by Muslims in the valley... why the hell would they create militancy against their fellow people? But perhaps, anything is possible in Pakistanis' imagination. . NBTV? wow! I never knew such unknown jokers could get such an intense news when NDTV, IBN-7 and other cronies are out there hungry for such news.

NBTV is an Indian source giving detailed events & updates all over India. Before mocking it, I suggest you go through it:

NBTVLIVE: Latest News India, World News & Business News, Cricket & Sports, Bollywood,Breaking News,Gadgets,Technology,Education,Health, Music, Movies, Information,IPL, Classifieds, Property,Sports,Politics, Entertainment and Video News

 

[karan.1970]

Again, these are the only 4 that are known about. They were commanders of the HuM too, not just some ordinary ranking fighters. Implying that there are a lot of lower level Hindu fighters as well. History has shown that religion was not the factor that drove the Kashmir insurgency prior to the 90s. The JKLF, for example, was not an Islamist insurgency, but one based on Kashmiri nationalism.

As I said, give me some names of Non Muslim Militant leaders of Kashmir insurgency that advocated merger with Pakistan... Also these 4 Hindu insurgents were known just as the remaining about 19996 muslim insurgents killed in the valley in last 20 years. Unknown is a factor you really cant deal in. Anyone can make any assumptions. Its as illogical as saying that since most present day terrorists killed across the world are Muslims, hence Islam advocates terrorism. You need to realize, that correlation does not necessarily imply causation.

 

[53fd]

The whole Kashmir problem was because the indigenous Hindu, Sikh and Buddhist communities were nearly exterminated by Muslims in the valley... why the hell would they create militancy against their fellow people? But perhaps, anything is possible in Pakistanis' imagination. . NBTV? wow! I never knew such unknown jokers could get such an intense news when NDTV, IBN-7 and other cronies are out there hungry for such news.

A better source for you reporting the same story:

4 Hindu ultras killed in Kashmir militancy, IBN Live News

 

[53fd]

As I said, give me some names of Non Muslim Militant leaders of Kashmir insurgency that advocated merger with Pakistan... Also these 4 Hindu insurgents were known just as the remaining about 19996 muslim insurgents killed in the valley in last 20 years. Unknown is a factor you really cant deal in. Anyone can make any assumptions. Its as illogical as saying that since most present day terrorists killed across the world are Muslims, hence Islam advocates terrorism. You need to realize, that correlation does not necessarily imply causation.

What are the names of the Muslim militant leaders of the Kashmir insurgency that advocated a merger with Pakistan? Many advocate Kashmir as an independent nation. Most Kashmiris in the Valley or anywhere in Kashmir are not militants. Most of the people in the Kashmir Valley that have nothing to do with militancy want independence from India, & a merger with Pakistan.

 

[karan.1970]

What are the names of the Muslim militant leaders of the Kashmir insurgency that advocated a merger with Pakistan? Many advocate Kashmir as an independent nation. Most Kashmiris in the Valley or anywhere in Kashmir are not militants. Most of the people in the Kashmir Valley that have nothing to do with militancy want independence from India, & a merger with Pakistan.

Wasnt there a survey that said only 1% wanted merger with Pakistan??

And google up the Kashmir insurgency and you will get all the names of Muslim hardliners over last 20-30 years advocating merger with Pakistan. Actually ISI is accused of assassinating the ones who were pro independence just like its accused of killing off separatist leaders in balochistan.

But thats a diff discussion. Here the issue we were discussing was the relevance of religion in the Kashmir insurgency.. Which as I said is extremely high since the whole issue is based on religion only and dates back to the time of partition when Pakistan tried to override the Maharaja of Kashmir's decision to accede to India when Pakistani Irregulars attacked and captured 1/3rd of the princely state of Kashmir

PS: WIll respond further tomorrow when I wake up.. Getting late in India now

 

[Tshering22]

A better source for you reporting the same story:

4 Hindu ultras killed in Kashmir militancy, IBN Live News

That's what I said in the last part of my comment. Re-read it again before highlighting. Funny how you clearly rejected when IBN-reported a 88% voting turnover in J&K sometime back.

 

[53fd]

Wasnt there a survey that said only 1% wanted merger with Pakistan??

I'm talking about the Kashmir Valley here, not the other parts of Kashmir.

Some interesting information about J&K:

Division (Area %) Population % Muslim % Hindu % Sikh % Buddhist/Other
Kashmir (53.9%) 5,476,970 97.16% 1.84% 0.88% 0.11%
Jammu (43.7%) 4,430,191 30.69% 65.23% 3.57% 0.51%
Ladakh (2.3%) 236,539 47.40% 6.22% – 45.87%
J&K (Total) 10,143,700 66.97% 29.63% 2.03% 1.36%

Here the issue we were discussing was the relevance of religion in the Kashmir insurgency.. Which as I said is extremely high since the whole issue is based on religion only and dates back to the time of partition when Pakistan tried to override the Maharaja of Kashmir's decision to accede to India when Pakistani Irregulars attacked and captured 1/3rd of the princely state of Kashmir

Again, when did the first Islamist insurgencies begin in Kashmir? There is your answer. Kashmir before the 1990s was an insurgency that had a Muslim majority, but was fueled by Kashmiri nationalism, not religion. Just like Turkey comprises of a majority of Muslims, but is not a Muslim/Islamic country, but a secular one. I suggest you read up a little on the JKLF & Kashmiri nationalism. You will see that the Kashmiri insurgency prior to the 90s had no religious component to it, which is why they wanted independence from Pakistan as well.

 

[karan.1970]

I'm talking about the Kashmir Valley here, not the other parts of Kashmir.

Some interesting information about J&K:

Division (Area %) Population % Muslim % Hindu % Sikh % Buddhist/Other
Kashmir (53.9%) 5,476,970 97.16% 1.84% 0.88% 0.11%
Jammu (43.7%) 4,430,191 30.69% 65.23% 3.57% 0.51%
Ladakh (2.3%) 236,539 47.40% 6.22% – 45.87%
J&K (Total) 10,143,700 66.97% 29.63% 2.03% 1.36%



Again, when did the first Islamist insurgencies begin in Kashmir? There is your answer. Kashmir before the 1990s was an insurgency that had a Muslim majority, but was fueled by Kashmiri nationalism, not religion. Just like Turkey comprises of a majority of Muslims, but is not a Muslim/Islamic country, but a secular one. I suggest you read up a little on the JKLF & Kashmiri nationalism. You will see that the Kashmiri insurgency prior to the 90s had no religious component to it, which is why they wanted independence from Pakistan as well.

Back the bold part with some documentary evidence.

And again as per UN resolution, Kashmir valley in itself is not an entity.

 

[Kashmiri Nationalist]

Its a bogey Pakistan uses to brainwash local kashmiri (somewhat successfully) and international audience (failing miserably since last few years)

And that would explain the gross human rights abuses carried out by Indian forces en-large over the years? When you have a heavy prescene of a military that very often than not, indulges in humans rights abuses -- I'd call it an occupation; when you have people resisting this force, I'd call it a struggle for self determination.

 

[Kashmiri Nationalist]

The whole Kashmir problem was because the indigenous Hindu, Sikh and Buddhist communities were nearly exterminated by Muslims in the valley... why the hell would they create militancy against their fellow people? But perhaps, anything is possible in Pakistanis' imagination. . NBTV? wow! I never knew such unknown jokers could get such an intense news when NDTV, IBN-7 and other cronies are out there hungry for such news.

You're being mislead, yes, their have been instances of this in the past (mostly by tribal invaders from FATA/NWFP, but they applied the same treatment to muslims too); but in the end, we are all of this same land. Your generalization is flawed, how can you say two families, living side by side for years and years will hate each other based on religion when their forefathers may have toiled on the same fields as they do now? Even my grandfather recalls fondly, the local chief (whom was a Hindu due to the religious bigoted feudalism at the time) though he was very restrictive himself.

 

[53fd]

Back the bold part with some documentary evidence.

Certainly:

JKLF | Official Website of Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front (UK Zone)

(i) That Kashmir Issue in not a territorial dispute between India and Pakistan but concerns the unfettered right of self-determination of the people of Jammu Kashmir State spread over an area of about 222000 sq-kilometers (84741 Sq. miles)

(ii) Jammu Kashmir State or any part of it is not a constitutional or integral part of India, Pakistan or any other country.

(iii) Only and only the nationals of Jammu Kashmir State are entitled to determine the future of their motherland.

(iv) In the opinion of JKLF the best solution of Kashmir Issue is to re-unite the divided Jammu Kashmir and make it a fully independent State with a democratic, federal and secular system of government and having friendly relations with both India and Pakistan. This will be subject to wishes and aspirations of the people of the State expressed through a referendum to be held under international auspices, 15 years after re-unification and independence of the State (as detailed in our Roadmap).

 

[Kashmiri Nationalist]

Back the bold part with some documentary evidence.

And again as per UN resolution, Kashmir valley in itself is not an entity.

Kashmir itself is an entity. The Maharaja himself wanted an independent Jammu and Kashmir as he felt it would be the right choice by his people, I'd say there was a hint of nationalism present there. To deny Kashmiri nationalism is foolish, it exists -- except this as a fact. JKLF, the first organization to pick up the gun itself was nationalist as was Maqbool Bhat; regarded as the father of the modern Kashmir struggle.

 

[53fd]

Back the bold part with some documentary evidence.

Some other documented evidence in the form of a timeline:

1963 - 1987: Rise of Kashmiri Nationalism

1963-1964: On 27 December, mass upsurge occurs in Kashmir Valley when the holy relic is found missing from the Hazratbal Shrine; the lost relic is recovered on 4 Jan 1964. Protest demonstrations occur in Kashmir Valley and Pakistan held parts of the State in December against Articles 356 and 357 of the Indian Constitution being extended to the state, by virtue of which the Center can assume the government of the State and exercise its legislative powers. The special status accorded to the State under Article 370, continues to get eroded over years[19]

1965: Indo-Pakistani War of 1965: Pakistan takes advantage of the discontent in the Valley and sends in a few thousand armed Pakistani infiltrators across the cease-fire line in August in Operation Gibraltar, and incidents of violence increase in Kashmir Valley; A full Indo-Pakistani war breaks out which ends in a ceasefire on 23 September.

1966: In January, Tashkent Declaration is signed by both countries agreeing to revert to pre-1965 position, under Russian mediation. Pakistan supported guerrilla groups in Kashmir increase their activities after the ceasefire. Kashmiri nationalists Amanullah Khan and Maqbool Bhat form another Plebiscite Front with an armed wing called the Jammu and Kashmir National Liberation Front(NLF) in Azad Kashmir, with the objective of freeing Kashmir from Indian occupation.[20]

1972: Republic of India and Pakistan agree to respect the cease-fire as Line of Control. India and Pakistan sign the Simla Agreement in July, which has a clause that the final settlement of Kashmir will be decided bilaterally in the future and that both the sides shall respect the LOC.

1976: Maqbool Bhat is arrested on his return to the Valley. Amanullah Khan moves to England and NLF becomes Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front(JKLF).

1979: The USSR invades Afghanistan. The US and Pakistan are involved in training, recruiting, arming, and unleashing the Mujahedin on Afghanistan.[21]The mujahedin so recruited would take on their own agenda of establishing Islamic rule in Kashmir from the late 1980's.

April 13, 1984: The Indian Army takes Siachen Glacier region of Kashmir. Maqbool Bhat is executed.

Timeline of the Kashmir conflict - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia