Hillary Clinton put in Hot Seat by Pakistani Media

[S-2]

Pretty much spot-on.

Had America remained in Afghanistan, we'd heard nothing but a litany of rants about our supposed neo-colonialist ambitions. THIS, of course, for a country, Afghanistan, that we'd heretofore held NO historical interest.

More to the point, had it been our intent to stay in Afghanistan post Soviet withdrawal, I highly DOUBT the Soviets would have reached an agreement with us to withdraw at all. Were an agreement reached to that effect, I rather expect that Gorbachev would have signed his death warrant and that would have signaled the end of glasnost and peristroika.

More likely, the Soviets would have "doubled-down" their own efforts to assure their near empire in the Soviet republics then along the northern afghan border. After all, it was in 1988 still very much the Soviet Union and NOT Russia.

This complaint, in short, is B.S. and self-serving pity seeking aggrandizement. Pakistan screwed the pooch by their single-minded interest in promoting a pan-pashtu movement intended to DOMINATE Afghanistan IAW their strategic intent to always deflect pashtu nationalist aspirations away from the sacred Punjab and instead onto Afghanistan at the expense of the Hazara, tajiks, and Uzbeks.

Did Pakistan try to create a pluralistic society in recognition that the pashtus weren't AND aren't the absolute majority in Afghanistan? Nope.

Pakistan reaps what they've sown and this has been nothing but pure unmitigated blowback for decades of duplicitious manipulation of islamist radicalism to Pakistan's narrow ends.

 

[WarProfessor]

Had America remained in Afghanistan, we'd heard nothing but a litany of rants about our supposed neo-colonialist ambitions.

Pretty much spot-off. The minimal goal is money, or extremely unfair of redistribution of wealth among Americans. The maximum goal and I am not sure you really cared much is world hegemony by taking down Iran. The agenda to preach clashes of civiliations to make you safer and get away with money, bring everyone into the BS brotherhood so that you will no longer singled out for attacks. Control money supply make you she-males feel safe, bind your goyums with exotic laws so that you will never be attacked again. Even armed in Rambo gear, you know you are pussies in front of them Arabs armed only with rocks. There is a reason why you can never keep a land to your own during the entire history of your civilizations, because you are physically incapable. You prescribed the book of God to your Goyums, to you, it's a book of Death, and you are always afraid. And you always want to avenge.

But regardless how much Goldman Sachs is worth, aren't you disappointed you just can't buy Chinese? You Jewed them Russians well, but thanks to Vodka, those Neanderthals finally recovered.

 

[Awesome]

Pretty much spot-off. The minimal goal is money, or extremely unfair of redistribution of wealth among Americans. The maximum goal and I am not sure you really cared much is world hegemony by taking down Iran. The agenda to preach clashes of civiliations to make you safer and get away with money, bring everyone into the BS brotherhood so that you will no longer singled out for attacks. Control money supply make you she-males feel safe, bind your goyums with exotic laws so that you will never be attacked again. Even armed in Rambo gear, you know you are pussies in front of them Arabs armed only with rocks. There is a reason why you can never keep a land to your own during the entire history of your civilizations, because you are physically incapable. You prescribed the book of God to your Goyums, to you, it's a book of Death, and you are always afraid. And you always want to avenge.

But regardless how much Goldman Sachs is worth, aren't you disappointed you just can't buy Chinese? You Jewed them Russians well, but thanks to Vodka, those Neanderthals finally recovered.

Everything about this post is an unacceptable form of behavior on this forum.

 

[Awesome]

Al Qaeda is a dead horse that Hillary tried to beat up in Pakistan and got rightly snubbed back. The remnants of Al Qaeda do not warrant the dedication of resources as do the TTP. America has a bad habit of being a bad project manager.

The scope of the mission should be limited to Rah-e-Nijaat. If you try to do 10 things at once, you'll end up like America itself, no aim in sight, bumbling and banging into anything that comes in the way.

The American "feelings" are not a good enough reason why we should fight this war, ineffectively. Furthermore, Pakistanis believe there really aren't that many feelings to begin with, its just a tactic to complicate matters in Pakistan and then control them.

What does she mean that she doesn't believe Pakistan government knows where the Al Qaeda is? Of course they don't. If some AQ is hiding in a hut, how would we know till an informant blurts it out. She has no proof. No basis in fact. She just wanted to leave what we call in Pakistan a "shurli" (those rocket fireworks).

We Pakistanis are at a stage now, where we demand that things FIRST have to be good for Pakistan then we'll help others out. We'll spare a helping hand or two along the way, but don't expect us to make drastic changes for your "feelings". We're the far worse aggrieved party.

Your AQ shurli just aint gonna work.

 

[Awesome]

Regardless how she handled herself... The Pakistani media needs more airtime with these American big shots. Our leaders aren't going to do it, so might as well we should take it upon ourselves to impress upon the Pakistani national interest to the Americans.

 

[Abu Basit]

A.M. you can read, can't you?

How do you explain Haqqani's son providing David Rohde with his own personalized tour of Haqqaniville? Is Rohde a LIAR? Have you e-mailed him with a direct challenge to his story? I absolutely know you've not the ballz to do so because you know it's true as can be.

Just another NYT song & dance? B.S. More the case of just another example of the reality you dissemble to meet the local audience lest you'd have NO COVER whatsoever.

Meanwhile there are your own Pakistani sympathizers from Faizullah's father-in-law dragging his bunch across the border in the fall of 2001 to fight with the taliban against NATO to today with Nazir and Bahadur's boyz planting their bombs over in Afghanistan routinely and WITHOUT interference from the P.A. Heaven forbid such!

It appears that THIS SALIENT point, one we've fought over from your days at WAB, is still central. Well, it's embedded in the K-L bill and you can take it to a far higher level than myself if the truth in your face from Rohde's latest example or the many, many others that have long existed is still not palatable to you.

You've long ago abdicated your sovereignty over the Islamic Emirate of Waziristan. Damned near a decade ago at this point. Too bad for your narrow and near-sighted self-serving government. No doubt it's a fcukin' chicken bone in your throat because it's on that very SALIENT point that PREDATOR HAS ROAMED those abdicated and long-lost skies.

PLEASE PISS on our aid. Mobilize the REJECT KERRY-LUGAR BILL MOVEMENT right here at def.pk.

As you do you might as well stick the barrel of an AK right in your mouths and pull the trigger to my everlasting pleasure. Our billions are wasted on a country (NOT a nation) that makes Afghanistan's corruption the examples of rank amateurs.

Pakistan has elevated such to a high art-form and embedded it institutionally in your military and civil elite.

first Hillary and now another frustrated american.....

the kind of relationship between US of A & Pakistan these days (by Pakistan i mean people of Pakistan and not the sold out ruling class), the frustration is likely to increase more. The reason being Just like Hillary Clinton, americans at def.pk can't hear that America is not welcomed in our region. Just pack up and get the hell out of our region.

The americans are always late in hearing, they didn't heard the people during the days of Shah of Iran and look what we had in 1979. Now they don't wanna hear the people of Pakistan, lets wait and see what we get this time.

 

[Sun Tzu]

Everything about this post is an unacceptable form of behavior on this forum.

It is perfectly fine for an ameri cunto to throw insult while fcuk buddy mods cover it with there ***.

 

[deathfromabove]

Arrogant US Misses the Message From Pakistan’s People
October 29, 2009

William Pfaff,

There has always been in American foreign policy circles a virus called arrogance, caused by the hereditary assumption that Americans know better than others. Surprisingly, this does not always prove the case, but the condition seems highly resistant to treatment, even by experience.

There seems a high probability that the disease has struck Obama administration policy circles dealing with Pakistan. (We will leave aside the case of American relations with Afghanistan.) This administration came to office with a conviction that the Afghanistan problem is a problem because it actually is a Pakistan problem, Pakistan being a large country possessing nuclear weapons and a great many Pashtuns, who are the people from whom Taliban are recruited.

Afghanistan is a country with one-sixth Pakistan’s population, with a great many Pashtuns, too, harboring only a 100 or so members of al-Qaeda (if we are to believe the American national security adviser, Gen. James Jones), whereas popular opinion in Washington is that Pakistan is rife with them, and the country is on its way to becoming a “breeding ground” for terrorists who wish to invade the West, blow it up with nuclear weapons obtained from Pakistani stocks, and establish a new global terrorist caliphate amidst the ruins.

It is unknown whether Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, visiting Pakistan this week, shares so alarmed a view, but she will hear a lot about the damage American pressures are doing to Pakistan and how fearful the Pakistani populace is, not of the Taliban and al-Qaeda, but of the United States.

According to a New York Times article this week, from Jane Perlez in Islamabad, the new fighting there against Islamists “has pleased the Americans, but it left large parts of Pakistan under siege, as militants once sequestered in the country’s tribal areas take their war to Pakistan’s cities. Many Pakistanis blame the United States for the country’s rising instability.”

A recent and serious poll found that 11 percent of the Pakistani respondents said that al-Qaeda is the greatest threat to Pakistan today, 18 percent said India, and 59 percent said the United States. This was in August, before the most recent offensives of the Pakistani army against the Islamists in Waziristan and the Swat Valley, and the retaliatory city bombings that subsequently have taken place.

A vocal part of the Pakistani population clearly doesn’t want the United States in their country, and it doesn’t even want the aid the United States is sending. A notorious fact in the past has been that civilian and popular opposition to the U.S. was based on the assumption that American aid was meant to keep military governments in place and buy military cooperation with American policy.

This time, it’s the army that doesn’t want the $7.5 billion aid package that the Obama administration has put together; the aid is denounced as meant to interfere in the country’s internal affairs – as indeed it is.

The civilian government of President Asif Ali Zardari, generally thought put in place by Washington, “is seen as slavishly pro-American [as well] as unable to cope” with the current situation (I am again quoting Jane Perlez). The country’s interior minister was hit with stones by students when he visited the International Islamic University last week, and in retaliation the government closed all the schools and universities in Punjab, the most populous province (supposed to reopen Monday, Oct. 26), “a move that affected Pakistani families like never before.”

To judge from the public statements of Obama counselors, Pakistan is seen as the great danger in the region, with erratic politics and nuclear weapons – and an active Islamist revolt thereby having the potential to create (according to Obama’s adviser Bruce Riedel) “the most serious threat to the United States since the end of the Cold War.”

This would seem why the U.S. wants a government under its thumb to compel the army to fight the Islamists on their home territory even if this alienates the army and sows hatred of America. Is it not possible to allow Pakistan, which has a solid civil service and an excellent army, to act in defense of its own security rather than let the U.S. impose its own ideas?

Is it not imaginable that they know better than the Americans? Would Americans appreciate a Pakistani army installed in Washington, instructing the United States in how to conduct its own foreign policy in ways that suit Pakistan’s national interests?

(c) 2009 Tribune Media Services, Inc.

 

[Abu Basit]

Regardless how she handled herself... The Pakistani media needs more airtime with these American big shots. Our leaders aren't going to do it, so might as well we should take it upon ourselves to impress upon the Pakistani national interest to the Americans.

the question is Are the American big shots ready to face Pakistani media after the present experience. Also rememebr Clinton did not hold an open press conference , had she done there wud have been lots of hostile questions.......

 

[Seadog1]

This Clash is between the Taliban and Radical Islam and the Civilized world what we are witnessing around the world is not a clash of religions, or a clash of civilizations.. It is a clash between two opposites, between two eras, .....a clash between a mentality that belongs to the Middle Ages and another mentality that belongs to the 21st Century.

Now Pakistan has a decison to make, either to become more like radical Islam or the Taliban so they can co exist with them or become more like the west so they can coexist with the west...

"The rest of the world is busy with the conquest of space, genetic engineering and the wonders of the computer, while the Taliban type countries are fascist, autocratic or theocratic, where women are subjugated and minorities persecuted. these countries are sick with poverty and have been for centuries and they will allways be.

The question here is really is Pakistan going to be part of the future or they going down the path of religious radicalism which will even make Pakistan poorer, more ignorant and backward. Now Pakistan can choose the future or they can choose the past and the hell it will bring with it.

 

[Seadog1]

Duplication

 

[Abu Basit]

This Clash is between the Taliban and Radical Islam and the Civilized world what we are witnessing around the world is not a clash of religions, or a clash of civilizations.. It is a clash between two opposites, between two eras, .....a clash between a mentality that belongs to the Middle Ages and another mentality that belongs to the 21st Century.

Now Pakistan has a decison to make, either to become more like radical Islam or the Taliban so they can co exist with them or become more like the west so they can coexist with the west...

"The rest of the world is busy with the conquest of space, genetic engineering and the wonders of the computer, while the Taliban type countries are fascist, autocratic or theocratic, where women are subjugated and minorities persecuted. these countries are sick with poverty and have been for centuries and they will allways be.

The question here is really is Pakistan going to be part of the future or they going down the path of religious radicalism which will even make Pakistan poorer, more ignorant and backward. Now Pakistan can choose the future or they can choose the past and the hell it will bring with it.

the crusades didn't ended and it's continuing to date and will continue in the future aswell(bush also said that). After the death of communism, America feels threaten from the re-emergence of Political Islam.

Talking abt 21st century, We are quite aware how the women gets treated in US of A and probably qualifies as the top Rapist country. Just go to youtube and there u'll find videos of the civilised american torchering women......

America also has to make a decision, either pack up and get lost from our region or keep reciving dead bodies from Afghanistan and face a hostile attitude from the people of Pakistan.

 

[FUAQ-U]

Pakistan should exercise its own free choice. Musharraf gave into the neo-con threats and today we see this country ablaze and the US calling DO MORE.

Pakistan should look after its own interest. Killing and locking up your own population will only lead to the break up of the federation and this is exactly what Universal Satanic Association wants.

Operations in NWFP millions displaced. Insurgency in Baluchistan.
Coming soon operation in Punjab. Alienating your local population will only lead to Iranian type regime.

US is just looking for a scapegoat for there incompetence in Afghanistan.

 

[Elmo]

Oh come now - you know better than to parrot S-2's line about 'allowed the Taliban Army to enter FATA'.

Pfftt... Elmo and parrot S-2!!! Pfft again!!!

The Afghan Taliban returned to their homes and villages in Afghanistan - what came to Pakistan were the Pakistanis who had gone to support them and some of the foreigners. And Pakistan did deploy tens of thousands of troops along the Durand, how many did the US deploy? Where was the US cooperation in interdicting cross-border militant movement, especially coordination in border areas where US offensives were taking place?

Yes.. the Afghan Taliban and Pakistan Taliban went to their villages and lived happily ever after!!!

Coming back to the real world, al-Qaeda leaders were able to cross over into Pakistan. Haqqani and co.... it's a long debate and got nothing to do with Hillary.

And beyond all of that, has the Durand all of a sudden become a police-able border? Because AFAIK, the cross-border movement of the Pashtun Tribes and the mountainous terrain still make for a formidable frontier that is close to impossible to completely police. So please, let the canard about this fictional 'Taliban Army marching into FATA and setting up camp', all with the GoP doing nothing, die already. It would be an extremely difficult task even in the best of times.

Who is talking about policing the Durand Line.... we are talking about ensuring that the "most-wanted" people in the world do not end up on your territory using a route usually traversed by benign tribesmen to cross over to the other side. It's not really policing... it's protecting your own interests.

FATA did not go up in flames of hatred and Islamic extremism until the US invasion, which allowed for a molding of ethnic, religious and tribal solidarity expressed for those occupied in Afghanistan under the Taliban banner and gave the Pakistani Taliban the authority and strength they needed to expand.

You seem to have skipped the bits about the 1980s mujahideen movement. Now please don't deny it... even the Pakistan Air Force used to go over the tribal areas into Afghanistan to conduct operations against the Russian forces. Extremism was very much here for over two decades.

Events in FATA might never have gone that route had it not been for the US invasion. Tens of thousands might not have died had the US slowed down for one moment, and attempted to seriously engage with the Taliban and explore the offers of deportation and trial of the accused in a mutually acceptable third nation - the threat of war did not need to be lowered, that was the "Stick" that would have been brought to pressure the Taliban, while international development assistance and phased recognition (which the Taliban were extremely desperate for) in return for cooperation on a variety of issues would have been the carrot.

Now, has Pakistani policy since then been flawed? Absolutely, though it could be argued that the failed policies were a function of domestic political and ethnic constraints, complicated even further by the US once more abandoning Afghanistan to go wage war in Iraq. But my 'diatribe' here is primarily focused at the fact that the US had the opportunity to take the non-military route, and refused to do so, and the result has been tens of thousands of lives and a radicalization of the entire tribal belt.

If and only if... the US did not and now too many people are bearing the brunt. So do continue with the blame-game or move on?

We can actually survive without the aid money, Hillary herself alluded to how in her comments that I commended her for, and various Pakistanis have been arguing for years along those lines.

The problem in Pakistan is not entirely one of funds, it is primarily one of poor planning and even poorer execution. The 'aid' may in fact allow the GoP to brush over its poor planning and execution, by providing it with easy surplus cash that will go into projects that will be trumpeted by the incumbent regime to win the voters over - never mind showing us what our actual Taxes paid for.

Yes we let go of the 'aid' and voila our politicians will start to work. If only...

 

[Seadog1]

the crusades didn't ended and it's continuing to date and will continue in the future aswell(bush also said that). After the death of communism, America feels threaten from the re-emergence of Political Islam.

Talking abt 21st century, We are quite aware how the women gets treated in US of A and probably qualifies as the top Rapist country. Just go to youtube and there u'll find videos of the civilised american torchering women......

America also has to make a decision, either pack up and get lost from our region or keep reciving dead bodies from Afghanistan and face a hostile attitude from the people of Pakistan.

Wow,, being from Pakistan the last thing some one wants to do is bring up the treatment of women.

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan - A Pakistani lawmaker defended a decision by northwestern tribesmen to bury five women alive because they wanted to choose their own husbands, telling stunned members of Parliament to spare him their outrage.

"These are centuries-old traditions, and I will continue to defend them," Israr Ullah Zehri, who represents Baluchistan province, told The Associated Press Saturday.

And if the people of Pakistan make peace with the Taliban they will not enemys of the only the USA but the rest of the modren world...