HESA Fighter Kowsar Program - Current and Next Generation

[drmeson]

that will have one problem, we won't have any other bomber then.
and airforce still don't have drone that can carry heavy bombs , the heaviest is mk-82 carried by karrar.
right now we must keep F-4 and Su-24 fleet operational, but must retire the circus airplanes airforce operate , and i believe after kowsar-2 we can retire mig-29s and after we build our own AWACS and introduction of kowsar 2 , F-14 must be retired.

We need no bombers, our skip glide vehicles can deliver 1000 KG thermobaric warhead at the head of enemy at 4-5 Mach some 1800 km away with 1-2 m CEP. Age of attack aircrafts and bombers is gone and I am glad Iran was one of the first countries in the world to let go of the Multirole combat aircraft delusion.

I have replied to you on IRIAF thread regarding F-4E/D, SU-24

 

[Hack-Hook]

We need no bombers, our skip glide vehicles can deliver 1000 KG thermobaric warhead at the head of enemy at 4-5 Mach some 1800 km away with 1-2 m CEP. Age of attack aircrafts and bombers is gone and I am glad Iran was one of the first countries in the world to let go of the Multirole combat aircraft delusion.

kheybatrshekan is not 1800km , is not considered a true glide system only to limited extent . and is too expensive to use in high number

 

[drmeson]

kheybatrshekan is not 1800km , is not considered a true glide system only to limited extent . and is too expensive to use in high number

You are not seeing the point

Its a member of the Fateh family which within a span of 10 years has increased the range from 300 KM to 1450 KM.

The current range is 1450 (IISS confirmed) with a CEP of 2M and quasi ballistic trajectory. Because continuous research, dare I say aggressive research is being conducted on this family with AShBM, C fiber bodies, multiple seekers, glide vehicles, etc, I have no doubt that in 2-4 years this family would have MRBM ranges. May even retire the Sejjil IRBM family. They can retire entire F-4E/D, SU-24, and SU-22 fleets.

It's not a Hypersonic glide vehicle. Its skip glide vehicle (bit different) but equally lethal. Its terminal speed at strike is pseudo-hypersonic.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1520061037751455745

 

[Hack-Hook]

You are not seeing the point

Its a member of the Fateh family which within a span of 10 years has increased the range from 300 KM to 1450 KM.

The current range is 1450 (IISS confirmed) with a CEP of 2M and quasi ballistic trajectory. Because continuous research, dare I say aggressive research is being conducted on this family with AShBM, C fiber bodies, multiple seekers, glide vehicles, etc, I have no doubt that in 2-4 years this family would have MRBM ranges. May even retire the Sejjil IRBM family. They can retire entire F-4E/D, SU-24, and SU-22 fleets.

It's not a Hypersonic glide vehicle. Its skip glide vehicle (bit different) but equally lethal. Its terminal speed at strike is pseudo-hypersonic.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1520061037751455745

the question is at what price tag a phantom with 4 ya-Ali vs 4 Kheybar-Shekan.
missiles can't completely replace Strike airplanes and don't forget they don't exactly need that much destructive to destroy target , the target may be several different part , then that phantom with 8 or 12 Balaban , yasin , or whatever. vs 8 or 12 kheybarshekan

 

[drmeson]

the question is at what price tag a phantom with 4 ya-Ali vs 4 Kheybar-Shekan.
missiles can't completely replace Strike airplanes and don't forget they don't exactly need that much destructive to destroy target , the target may be several different part , then that phantom with 8 or 12 Balaban , yasin , or whatever. vs 8 or 12 kheybarshekan

The price factor cant be used here because attack aircraft has men inside it. If it gets shot enemy can do massive propaganda of winning the encounter even if the target has been destroyed by the attack aircraft while the same enemy can't build that narrative even if it shoots down 4 out of 10 missiles.

 

[Hack-Hook]

The price factor cant be used here because attack aircraft has men inside it. If it gets shot enemy can do massive propaganda of winning the encounter even if the target has been destroyed by the attack aircraft while the same enemy can't build that narrative even if it shoots down 4 out of 10 missiles.

and those attack aircraft are not supported to use Russians tactic of throwing iron bomb on enemy head, they are supposed to release crise missile and glide bombs from far away

 

[drmeson]

and those attack aircraft are not supported to use Russians tactic of throwing iron bomb on enemy head, they are supposed to release crise missile and glide bombs from far away

Same cruise missile can be fired from

- Trucks (we have the range)
- UCAV's. Heydar-I on KAMAN-22 is an example.

Why endanger the men and give the enemy ammo for propaganda ?

 

[Hack-Hook]

Same cruise missile can be fired from

- Trucks (we have the range)
- UCAV's. Heydar-I on KAMAN-22 is an example.

Why endanger the men and give the enemy ammo for propaganda ?

because , if fired from high altitude and high speed we can increase the range of the missile around 1.5 time , and our only platform other than those bombers that can do that is karrar
now notice that that karar can do the release but is not compatible with that cruise missile yet and cant carry it. so it only leave us with F-4 or Su-24 option or perhaps in future Kowsar-2

 

[drmeson]

because , if fired from high altitude and high speed we can increase the range of the missile around 1.5 time , and our only platform other than those bombers that can do that is karrar
now notice that that karar can do the release but is not compatible with that cruise missile yet and cant carry it. so it only leave us with F-4 or Su-24 option or perhaps in future Kowsar-2

Ya-Ali ALCM 700 KM
Hoveyzeh 1400 KM
Abu-Mehdi AShCM 1000 KM
Ghader AhCM 330 KM

Zolfaghar AShBM 700 KM

Do we need any more range? that too at the expense of threatening pilots' lives and giving the enemy leverage of shooting down the sitting duck.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Zolfaghar AShBM 700 KM

Do we need any more range? that too at the expense of threatening pilots' lives and giving the enemy leverage of shooting down the sitting duck.

Zolfaqar in antiship role ?

and yes we need more range its not even for question , the more range the better and those 700 and 100 and ,,, range you mentioned are there to protect the life of the pilot.
how many missile you fire its small compared to how many your aircraft can deliver and you put the life of the pilot in danger when you give them iron bomb and say to them go and drop them from 50m above the target

 

[drmeson]

Zolfaqar in antiship role ?

and yes we need more range its not even for question , the more range the better and those 700 and 100 and ,,, range you mentioned are there to protect the life of the pilot.
how many missile you fire its small compared to how many your aircraft can deliver and you put the life of the pilot in danger when you give them iron bomb and say to them go and drop them from 50m above the target

https://en.mehrnews.com/news/164036/VIDEO-IRGC-unveils-Zolfaghar-Basir-naval-ballistic-missile

Its called Zolfighar Basir. Its probably in service already.

This tells us that Kheibar Shikan can be the one tested in the AShBM role next. Its the same family and the missile is like a Sniper accurate.

The only advantage you have presented of an Attack Aircraft is that they can deliver the SOW's at speed to increase the range. My point, its not that big of an advantage because most of our systems are long ranged.

 

[Hack-Hook]

https://en.mehrnews.com/news/164036/VIDEO-IRGC-unveils-Zolfaghar-Basir-naval-ballistic-missile

Its called Zolfighar Basir. Its probably in service already.

This tells us that Kheibar Shikan can be the one tested in the AShBM role next. Its the same family and the missile is like a Sniper accurate.

The only advantage you have presented of an Attack Aircraft is that they can deliver the SOW's at speed to increase the range. My point, its not that big of an advantage because most of our systems are long ranged.

so you are talking about Zolfaqar-Basir not zolfaqar missile , different guidance system , different missile.

and no i'm talking about not putting all your egg in one basket.
i'm talking about sending 10 missile , be able to send 50 missile.
i'm talking about war economy.
i'm talking about keeping your options

and no we only introduced Zolfaqar-basir , i don't recall we ever said we delivered it to our armed forces.

and yet you are talking about keeping enemy away 700km from our shores , I'm talking about chasing them away 1500 to 1800km away from our shores

 

[WudangMaster]

 

[drmeson]

so you are talking about Zolfaqar-Basir not zolfaqar missile , different guidance system , different missile.

and no i'm talking about not putting all your egg in one basket.
i'm talking about sending 10 missile , be able to send 50 missile.
i'm talking about war economy.
i'm talking about keeping your options

and no we only introduced Zolfaqar-basir , i don't recall we ever said we delivered it to our armed forces.

and yet you are talking about keeping enemy away 700km from our shores , I'm talking about chasing them away 1500 to 1800km away from our shores

- Zolfaqar Basir is AShBM version of Zolfagahar.

- Iran never announces the deployment of weapons or delivery to armed forces. Mostly, they unveil weapons and then they show up in fields during exercises.

- To keep the enemy 1800 KM away from shores, I would rather have Kheibar Shikan turn into AShBM or Hoveyzeh in AShCm than use a fully SOW loaded F-4E/D with zero protection fly to its max range where it will be shot. If you want that strategy to succeed, you will need some 100 long-range air superiority interceptors to accompany these Attack fighters. We do not have that luxury so IRGC is sticking to AShBM and AShCM.

 

[Hack-Hook]

- Zolfaqar Basir is AShBM version of Zolfagahar.

- Iran never announces the deployment of weapons or delivery to armed forces. Mostly, they unveil weapons and then they show up in fields during exercises.

- To keep the enemy 1800 KM away from shores, I would rather have Kheibar Shikan turn into AShBM or Hoveyzeh in AShCm than use a fully SOW loaded F-4E/D with zero protection fly to its max range where it will be shot. If you want that strategy to succeed, you will need some 100 long-range air superiority interceptors to accompany these Attack fighters. We do not have that luxury so IRGC is sticking to AShBM and AShCM.

when the ya-ali is fired from altitude it can easily go to 1000km away and f-4 easily can carry 4 of that .
they easily can do that and escape back into safety , you don't need to acompany them with 100 interceptor. 2-3 is enough if you insist on that .but F-4 ibecause of its J-79 engine is capable of doing the bombing alone specially now that can do it from 1000s of km away.
This is F-4 load

it can can carry a 600galon center line tank, and carry 4 MK-83 bomb at the same time (translate it to 4 cruise missile) and at the same time carry 4 x fatter or Sparrow