Here is the response of "Let's Burry The Past" From Indian Army Chief

[IbnAbdullah]

Salaam


Well, this thread took an (pointlessly) unexpected turn.

Indian COAS gave expected response.

Bro, what do you think about the statement of Gen Bajwa "Let's Burry The Past" ?

 

[xyx007]

Pakistan must enter into formal defence pact with China.

 

[TNT]

1 - Faqir of IPI tried a stunt to join with Afghanistan and we all know what happened to that.
2 - Afghans have not accepted Durand line and there are lar o bar supporters in KPK and FATA and we all know how that is working for such people.

I am not sure how you believe that Pushtuns are the warrior race and Punjabis are not while in the same breadth you guys whine about Punjabi domination. I am not an ethnic Punjabi however i have no delusions about any ethnicity of Pakistan. You rooted out Turks and others, we can say the same about Pushtuns and Brits later on. Such stereotypes that one race is superior than other is all hogwash.

Yes there are supporters of unity with Afghanistan but they are a small minority. Also have u ever wondered why faqir of ipi became anti Pakistan? He fought the british and when Pakistan was created, the very next week "royal Pakistan air force" bombed his areas. Now why would an independent country fight the enemy of its ex colonial masters??? Lands taken by the brits from freedom fighters were not returned. There are faults on both sides but in majority pashtuns decided to join Pakistan or else no one could force them. The very next year same pashtuns took azad Kashmir when pak army gora general actually stopped them.
I never called any race superior, that is ur assumption when i said we need pashtun leaders. My point was we need aggressive and courageous leaders and not pacifists like bajwa.

I love all our ethnicites and I only hope to remove this province nonsense and move away from ethnic based politics, its a curse and this mindset is uncivilized.

Diversity is not bad and can be used as a strength as well. No race is superior to another but every race have their culture, strengths and weaknesses. The different ethnicities if work together can have a force multiplier effect. But for this its important that everyone is given equal rights and opportunities.

 

[Vapnope]

the very next week "royal Pakistan air force" bombed his areas

History, again !
PAF only bombed Afghan town When Faqir of Ipi started a rebellion against the state of Pakistan. Kabul Regime hosted him and his militants hence pakistan was forced to retaliate. And he was the first one to start insurgency against Pakistan because he wanted KPK FATA to join Afghanistan.

About aggressive leaders, AK Niazi was Pushtun, Yahya was Pushtun, Ayub khan was Pushtun, Imran khan is a Pushtun and i can go on. Your first post was based on ethnic BS not on personal traits about the leaders.

 

[TNT]

History, again !
PAF only bombed Afghan town When Faqir of Ipi started a rebellion against the state of Pakistan. Kabul Regime hosted him and his militants hence pakistan was forced to retaliate. And he was the first one to start insurgency against Pakistan because he wanted KPK FATA to join Afghanistan.

About aggressive leaders, AK Niazi was Pushtun, Yahya was Pushtun, Ayub khan was Pushtun, Imran khan is a Pushtun and i can go on. Your first post was based on ethnic BS not on personal traits about the leaders.

And all this was observed in just one week?? The british werw bombing bannu and tribal areas where his forces were, as soon as Pakistan was made, the bombing missions were handed over to RPAF. Did anyone try to talk to him and assure him the brits are gone?? Why were policies of colonials kept on? There was no effort to change those policies. Still his support eroded and today huge majority is pro Pakistan.
Niazis are not pashtuns, they may have some links. neither is imran khan a pashtun. Ayub khan was a good leader. Dnt know much abt yahya.

 

[Vapnope]

And all this was observed in just one week?? The british werw bombing bannu and tribal areas where his forces were, as soon as Pakistan was made, the bombing missions were handed over to RPAF. Did anyone try to talk to him and assure him the brits are gone?? Why were policies of colonials kept on? There was no effort to change those policies. Still his support eroded and today huge majority is pro Pakistan.
Niazis are not pashtuns, they may have some links. neither is imran khan a pashtun. Ayub khan was a good leader. Dnt know much abt yahya.

Denial and obfuscation of the facts will not earn you anything here.
//In 1948, the Faqir took control of Datta Khel and moved toward the establishment of an independent state of Pashtunistan. In this regard, he established strong ties with regional political leaders including Pandit Nehru and Prince Sardar Daud Khan, a staunch supporter of Pashtunistan.

On May 29, 1949, the Faqir of Ipi called on a tribal jirga in Gurwek, North Waziristan, and asked Pakistan to accept Pashtunistan as an independent state. To counter his lashkars, Pakistan favored bombing his safe havens to undermine the tribal revolt. In 1953-54, No 14 Squadron of the Pakistan Air Force led an operation from Miranshah airbase and heavily bombarded the Faqir of Ipi’s compound.//

https://asiatimes.com/2020/04/__trashEmirat

He established something similar to Emirates of Waziristan by TTP and state of Pakistan had to bomb his militants.

About Niazis being Pushtun or not,

Niazi surname

The Niazi (Pashto: نیازی, Nīāzī; pronounced [%CB%88nia:zai%CB%90]) Niazi tribe belongs to Pashtun tribe of Central Afghanistan (Khorasan).Nomadic tribes of Central afghanistan were mostly reffered to the khalaj turks, the earliest turkic tribes who migrated from central asia. Later they merged...

www.geni.com

Ayub Khan was the one who didn't side with China in 1962 against India and he was the one who superseded Malik Akhtar Hussain with Yahya khan costing Pakistan everything in 1965 war.

 

[TNT]

Denial and obfuscation of the facts will not earn you anything here.
//In 1948, the Faqir took control of Datta Khel and moved toward the establishment of an independent state of Pashtunistan. In this regard, he established strong ties with regional political leaders including Pandit Nehru and Prince Sardar Daud Khan, a staunch supporter of Pashtunistan.

On May 29, 1949, the Faqir of Ipi called on a tribal jirga in Gurwek, North Waziristan, and asked Pakistan to accept Pashtunistan as an independent state. To counter his lashkars, Pakistan favored bombing his safe havens to undermine the tribal revolt. In 1953-54, No 14 Squadron of the Pakistan Air Force led an operation from Miranshah airbase and heavily bombarded the Faqir of Ipi’s compound.//

https://asiatimes.com/2020/04/__trashEmirat

He established something similar to Emirates of Waziristan by TTP and state of Pakistan had to bomb his militants.

About Niazis being Pushtun or not,

Niazi surname

The Niazi (Pashto: نیازی, Nīāzī; pronounced [%CB%88nia:zai%CB%90]) Niazi tribe belongs to Pashtun tribe of Central Afghanistan (Khorasan).Nomadic tribes of Central afghanistan were mostly reffered to the khalaj turks, the earliest turkic tribes who migrated from central asia. Later they merged...

www.geni.com

Ayub Khan was the one who didn't side with China in 1962 against India and he was the one who superseded Malik Akhtar Hussain with Yahya khan costing Pakistan everything in 1965 war.

I guess u didnt comprehend my point correctly. I was referring to his bombing in 1947, once he became enemy of Pakistan, he went on. My point was we should not have made enemies by continuing colonial military policies. He could have been won over earlier in 47 but we made him an enemy. You also forgot ayub khan beat india in 65 or was that an intentional omission? Not to forget the fact who took azad Kashmir in first place. Our army have done blunders which i accept and my main criticism is of having pacifists like bajwa.

 

[IbnAbdullah]

Salaam

Our army have done blunders which i accept and my main criticism is of having pacifists like bajwa.

I think the point being made is that the criticism should be person based not ethnicity based. When you say that Bajwa is a pacifist because he is a Punjabi and hence by nature such. His failings are, as you are suggesting, not of a personal nature but rather ethnic.

Similarly, you suggest the Pushtuns (I assume you are one as well) are a naturally better and more courageous ethnic group that would make for better leaders.

I understand ethnic pride is a thing but I hope you understand why that would not sit well with other people.

Gen Raheel seems to have done rather well as a chief. Was that because of his ethnic background or personal character?

 

[crankthatskunk]

A lot has been said and written about recent speech by COAS Bajwa during security conference held in Islamabad. A 50/50 split was observed across the entire spectrum of society.

In my personal opinion some parts of the speech were not appropriate and oozed weakness. An army chief is not supposed to give these kind of statements. Maybe a side effect of getting too much involved in politics. An old tired looking general saying "lets burry the past" destroys overall morale.

It doesn't matter what kind of pressure was exerted on Pakistan and from where. These statements shouldn't have been given and especially at this point in time. It made Pakistan look as mighty as Bangladesh (no offense).

Some of the fellow members here might jump (they have done it before as well) and respond with...Do you want war. We can't fight war. Or how these statements have been a massive political victory of Pakistan and they have made Pakistan look soo nice in front of the whole world.


Here is the response from indian army chief.

Day by day Bajwa is becoming a liability.
This docile man should have not been the COAS of Pakistani army.
Nawaz selected him to be promoted on the ground that he is more pro democracy than other generals available for promotion to COAS at the time.
Now same Nawaz cries that Bajwa has brought "selected" Imran Khan to the power. He also alleges Army's involvement in the politics of Pakistan.

On the flip side, if one look at the events closely, Bajwa actually has served Nawaz and PMLN well.

1- Maryam out on the bail on the ground of being a woman. Have you ever seen more stupid reason than this any where in the world to grant someone bail!!

2- Nawaz sent to the UK on the basis of fake illness and fake documents submitted in a court of Law.
Recently Muhammad Zubair admitted Nawaz went out of Pakistan because he feels he is not getting fair trials in Pakistan and not for health reasons.
It means that PMLN leader accepted that Nawaz has committed perjury in a court of law by submitting fake medical report. Alas, such is degradation in Pakistani press that nobody talks about that at all.
Anyway Bajawa's finger prints can be seen all over the escape of Nawaz from Pakistan.
What right Bajwa has to help a convicted killer escaping Pakistan!!! Why Bajwa is not charged and court martial proceedings started against him!!!
May be I am too much of an idealist and believing in rule of law in a lawless society.

3- Hamaza out on bail, soon Shahbaz would be out. I have said it before, I will say it again, Establishment is keeping Shahbaz in the reserve. No matter how convincing are the evidences against Shahbaz in money laundering i.e. TT case, nothing would happen to him, he is protected.

In a society, where criminals are protected by its own establishment, thinking of morality and rule of law are pure fantasies. I am guilty of those fantasies.

If anyone expecting anything better from Bajwa, they should think again. This man is a complete disaster for Pakistan, mark my words. Worse to come.

 

[313ghazi]

In response to questions as by journalists Indian army chief said;

- terror infrastructure remains intact in Pakistan
- FATF fears could have led Pakistan to ceasefire

My 2 cents;

- This video is a non story. What do you expect him to say when asked loaded questions?
- Peace peace with India will never work. The hate for us is built into their society.

 

[LightUponLight]

A lot has been said and written about recent speech by COAS Bajwa during security conference held in Islamabad. A 50/50 split was observed across the entire spectrum of society.

In my personal opinion some parts of the speech were not appropriate and oozed weakness. An army chief is not supposed to give these kind of statements. Maybe a side effect of getting too much involved in politics. An old tired looking general saying "lets burry the past" destroys overall morale.

It doesn't matter what kind of pressure was exerted on Pakistan and from where. These statements shouldn't have been given and especially at this point in time. It made Pakistan look as mighty as Bangladesh (no offense).

Some of the fellow members here might jump (they have done it before as well) and respond with...Do you want war. We can't fight war. Or how these statements have been a massive political victory of Pakistan and they have made Pakistan look soo nice in front of the whole world.


Here is the response from indian army chief.

Finally, somebody gets it.

The blind fanboys here want to paint every single thing as some kind of legendary statesmanship that the rest of us are too immature to understand. They think we crave war --- which is, of course, not the solution given Pakistan's economy, etc.

The solution is robust covert offensive capabilities so we can say these things from a position of CLEAR STRENGTH. Right now, this seems too much like weakness and a lack of willingness to make the tough decisions.

IOK should be up in flames. Every terror attack here by Indian-backed groups should be responded to there.

Raise the cost. Introduce fear of consequences. Deter.

Then talk peace...

-my 2c

Day by day Bajwa is becoming a liability.
This docile man should have not been the COAS of Pakistani army.
Nawaz selected him to be promoted on the ground that he is more pro democracy than other generals available for promotion to COAS at the time.
Now same Nawaz cries that Bajwa has brought "selected" Imran Khan to the power. He also alleges Army's involvement in the politics of Pakistan.

On the flip side, if one look at the events closely, Bajwa actually has served Nawaz and PMLN well.

1- Maryam out on the bail on the ground of being a woman. Have you ever seen more stupid reason than this any where in the world to grant someone bail!!

2- Nawaz sent to the UK on the basis of fake illness and fake documents submitted in a court of Law.
Recently Muhammad Zubair admitted Nawaz went out of Pakistan because he feels he is not getting fair trails in Pakistan and not for health reasons.
It means that PMLN leader accepted that Nawaz has committed perjury in a court of law by submitting fake medical report. Alas, such is degradation in Pakistani press that nobody talks about that at all.
Anyway Bajawa's finger prints can be seen all over the escape of Nawaz from Pakistan.
What right Bajwa has to help a convicted killer escaping Pakistan!!! Why Bajwa is not charged and court martial proceedings started against him!!!
May be I am too much of an idealist and believing in rule of law in a lawless society.

3- Hamaza out on bail, soon Shahbaz would be out. I have said it before, I will say it again, Establishment is keeping Shahbaz in the reserve. No matter how convincing are the evidences against Shahbaz in money laundering i.e. TT case, nothing would happen to him, he is protected.

In a society, where criminals are protected by its own establishment, thinking of morality and rule of law are pure fantasies. I am guilty of those fantasies.

If anyone expecting anything better from Bajwa, they should think again. This man is a complete disaster for Pakistan, mark my words. Worse to come.

Shhh --- you'll disturb the fanboys.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Bajwa the spineless. I am constantly baffled at the blunders Pak state is making. When we have India pinned due to a good years worth of effective diplomacy. We are suddenly letting the beast we had downed with chains have breathing space. Crucial breathing space at that. To rearm and regroup.

Would India have given us such a chance when it had us cornered and constantly was shedding blood of our men, women and children??

 

[ARMalik]

Think about this - these weak faker indians are killing Kashmiris like animals daily. These indians are surrounded by China, and China is literally holding their neck in its hands! And then you have the COAS of Pakistan army asking, begging for 'Peace'. And this for you is Pakistan's so called Establishment, which is the most corrupt organisation in Pakistan and perhaps the World. You see when there is corruption, then this corruption makes people weak and cowards. These people do not fight for their religion and ideology but can only arm twist and fight so that their corruption continues on.

 

[Salman876]

Please don't become province of India, if we are so much weak, become province of China.

 

[Salman876]

We as a nation (nation?) are so much incompetent that now Bangladesh is our role model (congratulations to Bangladesh as well for their hard work)