Help me understand Jew history

[Hulk]

Hi,
I am starting this thread to learn some history about Jews. Since I come here often and lot of times the discussion happen around Muslims history and Jew and their relation. I decided to watch a 3 hour documentary on Prophet Muhammad on YouTube. I got some understanding on Islam and how it came into existence. However I want to focus on Jew history in relation to Islam.

What I understood in that documentary is as follows.
1) Prophet Muhammad had to move to Medina since he faced threat from Quraesh tribe in Mecca.
2) Jews were living in Medina, more than one tribe.
3) Prophet Muhammad when he again tried to go to Medina made Quraesh unhappy and they attacked Medina.
4) Jews tribe were unhappy that their business was getting impacted hence there was a rumor that they are meeting Quraseh.
5) Prophet Muhammad fought Jews and made them leave Medina.

So, how did the Jews landed in Israel?
Since they were already in Arab land, don't you think they have ownership on Arab land.

I want to understand this in context of Israel Palestine fight and has it anything to do with what I saw?

Please treat this as purely history point of view and do not drag religion into it.

I need to know this so that I better understand your discussion.

 

[jammersat]

Jews lived in the outskirts of medina if i'm not mistaken , in a fortress or something ! there were more christians in medina according to what muslims teach , not jews , you are mistaken

 

[FaujHistorian]

Hi,
I am starting this thread to learn some history about Jews. Since I come here often and lot of times the discussion happen around Muslims history and Jew and their relation. I decided to watch a 3 hour documentary on Prophet Muhammad on YouTube. I got some understanding on Islam and how it came into existence. However I want to focus on Jew history in relation to Islam.

What I understood in that documentary is as follows.
1) Prophet Muhammad had to move to Medina since he faced threat from Quraesh tribe in Mecca.
2) Jews were living in Medina, more than one tribe.
3) Prophet Muhammad when he again tried to go to Medina made Quraesh unhappy and they attacked Medina.
4) Jews tribe were unhappy that their business was getting impacted hence there was a rumor that they are meeting Quraseh.
5) Prophet Muhammad fought Jews and made them leave Medina.

So, how did the Jews landed in Israel?
Since they were already in Arab land, don't you think they have ownership on Arab land.

I want to understand this in context of Israel Palestine fight and has it anything to do with what I saw?

Please treat this as purely history point of view and do not drag religion into it.

I need to know this so that I better understand your discussion.

which documentary.

Who made it?



your list is inaccurate and kind of biased. Not sure it is due inaccurate documentary or your personal bias.

Thank you

 

[kobiraaz]

Muhammad PBUH Expelled Jews around 610 AD from Medina. And Jews landed in Jerusalem 1500 years ago of Muhammad from Egypt.

 

[kobiraaz]

Prophet Abraham Had 2 sons. Ishmael and Isaac. Both were prophet. Ishmael settled in Arab region - while Isaac Settled in Jordan Palestine region. Isaac had a son , named Jacob who was a prophet too. Jacob had 12 sons. Jacob's another name is Israel and these 12 sons and their descendents are called 12 tribes of Israel. Jacob migrated to Egypt with his sons to live where His favorite son Joseph was a governor and a prophet. Thats how jews ended up in Egypt. Moses rescued them from Pharao and took them in Palestine, the land promised and Given to them by God as they say. Then they had series of prophets like Solemon, David who established Jews as a strong nation and built their temple in Jerusalem making it a holy city for Jews. Then centuries later Babylon destroyed their temple and took them as prisoners all the way to babylon. Thats how they were expelled from Jerusalem. However ,they were let to regather in Palestine by Another babylonian king Possibly Cyrus the Great as far as i remember. Then they came under romans who started persecuting them as the romans converted to Christianity.
They expelled Jews from their temples and destroyed it again. Caliph Umar defeated Romans and allowed Jews back in Jerusalem . But the temple was destroyed by Romans and the Jews have been praying near the wall since then .

Jews donot consider Muhammad a prophet because he is a descendant of Ishmael not Isaac. That is where all the problem.

Its from my memory. So ignore my mistakes if there is any.

 

[notsuperstitious]

Prophet Abraham Had 2 sons. Ishmael and Isaac. Both were prophet. Ishmael settled in Arab region - while Isaac Settled in Jordan Palestine region. Isaac had a son , named Jacob who was a prophet too. Jacob was in palestine and he had 12 sons. Jacob's another name is Israel and these 12 sons and their descendents are called 12 tribes of Israel. Jacob migrated to Egypt with his sons to live where His favorite son Joseph was a governor and a prophet. Thats how jews ended in Egypt. Moses rescued them from Pharao and took them in Palestine, Given to them by God as they say. Then they had series of prophets like Solemon, David who established Jews as a strong nation. Then centuries later Babylon destroyed their temple and took them as prisoners all the way to babylon. Thats how they were expelled from Jerusalem. However ,they were let to regather in Palestine by another king by Another babylonian king Possibly Cyrus the Great as far as i remember. Then they came under romans who started persecuting them as the romans converted to Christianity.
They expelled Jews from their temples and destroyed it again. Caliph Umar expelled Romans and allowed Jews back in Jerusalem . But the temple was destroyed by Romans and the Jews pray near the wall since then.


Its from my memory. So ignore my mistakes if there is any.

Please do not mix history with fables. That defeats the purpose.

 

[jammersat]

You are Miss taken

 

[kobiraaz]

Please do not mix history with fables. That defeats the purpose.

which part is fable ? highlight and clarify. These biblical characters have historical authenticity. pintpoint my mistake .

 

[sur]

.. some history about Jews....

.. inaccurate and kind of biased...

It's important to look at the bigger picture.

The so-called "chosen people" were NOT the jews, rather "Children of Israel" (c.o.i) = "Bani-Israel"...

Israel was nick name of Prophet Yaakoob(Jacob) ... So children of israel = children of Jacob\Bani-Ya'koob..


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Ya'koob had ~11 or 12 sons. Out of which he we had 12 tribes of coi...

Jews are ONLY one of those 12 tribes of coi...

Rest of those 11 tribes are called "Lost tribes of coi"...

Bible says that "Lost Tribes", migrated towards the EAST... & then they disappear from bible; hence "Lost Tribes".

The tradition says that those Lost Tribes are the Pashtoon & Kasmiris...

SO the Lost Tribes of chosen people converted to Islam... Hence majority of Children of Israel(Jacob) are now Muslim...


Imran Khan is a Bani-Israel... Nawaz Sharif is a Bani-Israel...

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"I am of Mosa-Khail = ppl of Moses"
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"The Land" was promised to those of coi who will accept the Messaih, when he came...

Muslim-coi accept the Messaih Jesus(Eeesaa), jews rejected the Christ...
so the "Kingdom of Heaven" belongs of Muslim-coi, not to the rejector-coi(jews)...

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[BJP*]

Actually yes, the whole conflict is not easy to understand for us as Indians. May be we have very little knowledge of middle east history. These fights could be influenced from history.

 

[notsuperstitious]

which part is fable ? highlight and clearify. These biblical characters have historical authenticity. pintpoint my mistake .

The part where Ibrahim had two sons onwards. Which year was it?

 

[kobiraaz]

The part where Ibrahim had two sons onwards. Which year was it?

Ok I understand your confusion...... Its like asking when was wheel invented! There is no specific date, No exact History. No alternate source other than Bible, Jewish scriptures and Quran... and These scriptures arent pure fictions, they are still great source of Ancient History like cuneiforms.... and Archaeological evidence can be found accordingly...

Here is what Wiki says about its Historicity ---

In the early to mid-20th century, leading scholars such as William F. Albright and Albrecht Alt believed the patriarchs and matriarchs to be either real individuals or believable composite people living in the "patriarchal age", the 2nd millennium BCE. In the 1970s, however, new conclusions about Israel's past and the biblical texts challenged this portrait. The two works largely responsible were Thomas L. Thompson's The Historicity of the Patriarchal Narratives (1974), and John Van Seters' Abraham in History and Tradition (1975). Thompson's argument, based on archaeology and ancient texts, was that no compelling evidence pointed to the patriarchs living in the 2nd millennium and that the biblical texts reflected first millennium conditions and concerns; Van Seters, basing himself on an examination of the patriarchal stories, agreed with Thompson that their names, social milieu and messages strongly suggested that they were Iron Age creations.[5] By the beginning of the 21st century, and despite sporadic attempts by more conservative scholars such as Kenneth Kitchen to save the patriarchal narratives as history, archaeologists had "given up hope of recovering any context that would make Abraham, Isaac or Jacob credible 'historical figures'


So there is no alternative History to prove the Origin of Jews other than what i stated above........

 

[wise_owl]

Abraham had 3 Wives - Sarah, Hagar and Keturah and eight sons Isaac, Ishmael, Midian, imran, Jokshan, Shuah, Ishbak, Medan.

 

[notsuperstitious]

Ok I understand your confusion...... Its like asking when was wheel invented! There is no specific date, No exact History. No alternate source other than Bible, Jewish scriptures and Quran... and These scriptures arent pure fictions, they are still great source of Ancient History like cuneiforms.... and Archaeological evidence can be found accordingly...

Here is what Wiki says about its Historicity ---

In the early to mid-20th century, leading scholars such as William F. Albright and Albrecht Alt believed the patriarchs and matriarchs to be either real individuals or believable composite people living in the "patriarchal age", the 2nd millennium BCE. In the 1970s, however, new conclusions about Israel's past and the biblical texts challenged this portrait. The two works largely responsible were Thomas L. Thompson's The Historicity of the Patriarchal Narratives (1974), and John Van Seters' Abraham in History and Tradition (1975). Thompson's argument, based on archaeology and ancient texts, was that no compelling evidence pointed to the patriarchs living in the 2nd millennium and that the biblical texts reflected first millennium conditions and concerns; Van Seters, basing himself on an examination of the patriarchal stories, agreed with Thompson that their names, social milieu and messages strongly suggested that they were Iron Age creations.[5] By the beginning of the 21st century, and despite sporadic attempts by more conservative scholars such as Kenneth Kitchen to save the patriarchal narratives as history, archaeologists had "given up hope of recovering any context that would make Abraham, Isaac or Jacob credible 'historical figures'


So there is no alternative History to prove the Origin of Jews other than what i stated above........

From your link.

archaeologists had "given up hope of recovering any context that would make Abraham, Isaac or Jacob credible 'historical figures'

Also, your claim that there is no alternative ''history'' itself is a joke. There is truckloads of evidence that explains the development of human civilisation from primitive to today's modern age, the development of languages, tools, housing, farming, migration etc etc. Have you visited a museum? The written or narrated history only covers a tiny part of that journey. Bible talks abt Noah's arc and abraham being Noah's 11th generation just does not add up.

As such where jews or arabs or anyone else came from is a complex journey going back tens of thousands of years. It can't be traced to gux X had 12 sons and now you have the jews kind of unsubstantiated oversimplification..

Please do not peddle unscientific unproven fables as history. If we don't know thats fine. In any case OP has asked the question WRT the current conflict only.

 

[sur]

jacob (Israel) had 12 sons from two wives (the sisters elder Leah and the younger Rachel) and two concubines (Bilhah and Zilpah)

First wife Leah had six sons Reuben, Judah, Levi, Simeon, Issachar, Zebulun.
Second wife Rachel had two sons Joseph and Benjamin.
Bilhah - Rachel's maid had two sons Dan and Napthali.
Zilpah - Leah's maid had two sons Gad and Asher.

Joseph's son Ephraim and Manasseh who were born in Egypt are also considered the sons of Jacob (Israel)

OK. I have heard both 11 & 12 that's why I made "~" sign before 11. Approximately 11 or so. I edited that.