have Japanese forgotten the bombing of WWII?

[Tiger Awan]

Who is the We are you referring to?

Muslims, Umah, Nation

 

[Burnz]

Muslims, Umah, Nation

Does that include Muslims in Minorities or only Muslim Majority Countries?

 

[Tiger Awan]

Does that include Muslims in Minorities or only Muslim Majority Countries?

Muslims are a part of a single nation where ever they live

and I am talking about Ottoman empire. At that time majority Muslims were under one government and those living in minorities were also not treated the way they are now.

Ofcourse P a k-indo sub-continent was not a part of that empire but we Muslims also respected the empire a lot and used to read the sermon of khalifa before jumma prayer. ( by this we accepted the emperor of Ottoman empire to be khalifa of the muslms)

same was the case in other part of the world.

 

[EjazR]

Both are pretty big topics and many people will have different views. I don't think I can answer it fully either but just give a few points which could very well be an incomplete list

But what's reason(s) in your opinion that these countries are quite friendly to each other now?
1. Japan was completely defeated by the US and its armed forces were effectively curtailed constitutionally. Even now they have a constitutional provision that only defensive forces will be allowed and not offensive. After the war, the US heavily invested and helped in building back up the Japanese economy i.e. it did not rub its victory in Japanese face with humiliating treaties like how Germany was put under after WWI.

2. Both countries are long standing democracies. Have trade links and co-operate frequently in multilateral organisations like UN, IMF, APEC e.t.c.

3. Both countries had a common enemy/threat in the USSR and were allied together under the Cold War, that built up their relationship as well.



Just as a side topic if we take India and Pakistan they are still stuck in the past. What could the reasons for that?

1. Lack of trust is the main reason IMO. Kashmir can't be solved without building trust. A solution on Kashmir will be the last step in building up Indo-Pak co-operation.

2. Lack of transparency or democratic governments also plays a role. In Pakistan, the people need a sustained period of democratic role to build up institutions and effectively contribute to foreign policy and India specific issues. On the Indian side, its the GoI that matters because of the sustained period of democratic role.

3. Role of media/education/policy debates in shaping public opinion.

there could be many more


There are plenty of examples of former sworn enemies that became close partners because of the dynamics that required the partnership. Usually an external threat. So for close Indo-Pak co-operation, the quickest way would be an external threat that would affect both India and Pakistan and they would both have to join hands to fight against it. There was infact a similar situation under Ayub Khan when he had intelligence that China was going to attack in the J&K region, but he wasn't sure if it was the Indian side or Pakistani side. There was a suggestion of forming a defense pact between India and Pakistan but Nehru rejected probably to allay Chinese fears and maybe lack of trust in a military leader as well. This was before 1962.

I think first we would atleast have to have some cold peace, i.e. no terrorist attacks/ infiltrations in Kashmir e.t.c and an understanding over Afghanistan.

Then a build up of economic relations including transit trade and pipelines.

There could also be co-operation in international institutions which India and Pakistan already do like the UN or SAARC or ADB for the benfit of the region and hence building up trust.

Eventually when relations go on an uptrend and there is a level of trust a sustained democratic governance, a government with a strong mandate in both India and Pakistan can push through a final solution on Kashmir issue and other territory disputes. But these disputes should not be a block in building relations in other fields.

 

[twoplustwoisfour]

Muslims, Umah, Nation

Muslims are a part of a single nation where ever they live

Funny you should say that, because most Pakistanis here have rejected a modern day idea of Ummah, specifically in relation to the Muslim majorities in China...

 

[fast]

... Japan shares very good relations with the USA. Although it was the US which atom bombed its two cities. A very terrible event indeed. But what's reason(s) in your opinion that these countries are quite friendly to each other now?

Not sure how Pakistan and India can follow Japan's example. Japan was defeated completely and surrendered unconditionally in WW2. We occupied and still occupies their country with armies. We sort of owned them. We abolished their old system - government, military, media, etc, and put in new ones, in our favor of course. We wrote their constitution. We installed a friendly government, which influenced the populace throughout the years. We still have tens of thousands troop stationing there, "protecting" them. We built a friendly country from scratch.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

The reason is Pakistan denying its core identity, i.e. South Asian.

It denies its Hindu roots. The political Islam aka Abrahamic religions can never mingle with the Dharmic religions in the Indian Sub Continent. Pakistan finds its solace in the Arab identity. They think that Arab=True Islam.

One historian has correctly said, 'Islam is Arab Nationalism'.

Pakistan hasn't been able to grasp that it can adhere to its own culture, its own roots at the same time follow an outside religion.

It needs to look up to Bangladesh in that aspect.

Save us frm the rants.

 

[Tractor]

Not sure how Pakistan and India can follow Japan's example. Japan was defeated completely and surrendered unconditionally in WW2. We occupied and still occupies their country with armies. We sort of owned them. We abolished their old system - government, military, media, etc, and put in new ones, in our favor of course. We wrote their constitution. We installed a friendly government, which influenced the populace throughout the years. We still have tens of thousands troop stationing there, "protecting" them. We built a friendly country from scratch.

Sounds your country should bombed more nukes on Japanese land even Japanese bases in China if you had more nukes enough.

 

[EjazR]

The reason is Pakistan denying its core identity, i.e. South Asian.

It denies its Hindu roots. The political Islam aka Abrahamic religions can never mingle with the Dharmic religions in the Indian Sub Continent. Pakistan finds its solace in the Arab identity. They think that Arab=True Islam.

One historian has correctly said, 'Islam is Arab Nationalism'.

Pakistan hasn't been able to grasp that it can adhere to its own culture, its own roots at the same time follow an outside religion.

It needs to look up to Bangladesh in that aspect.

If you look at South Asian Muslim population that alone comprises almost 35% of the global Muslim population. Much more than 20% of the Arab population. If you include muslims of Indonesia or Malaysia which are also heavily influenced by Indian culture, you are reaching almost 50%. So the historian who said Islam is Arab Nationalism had no idea what he was talking about realistically, would be good to know who he is and if he really is a "historian".

Arabs are a minority if we you look at the Muslim population and Islam can certainly be called a South Asian religion given its long history and also the fact that the single largest bloc of adherents in the world are from the South Asian region.

Arab Nationalism is a completely separate phenomenon and was responsible for the revolt against the Ottoman Caliphate, creation of Arab states and the rise of secular nationalists like Gamal Abdel Nasser of Egypt and his counterparts around the Arab world. Even Yasser Arafat led a Arab nationalist movement in the form of PLO inspiring Arabs both Muslims and Christians against Israeli occupation. There was no call of Islam vs Judaism world view under him.

 

[9/11 done by usa]

the japs seam to screww usa big style all radiation hitting amareca sweet revenge karma amaricans turned of there Geiger counters every thing is safe know hahah

 

[anon45]

the japs seam to screww usa big style all radiation hitting amareca sweet revenge karma amaricans turned of there Geiger counters every thing is safe know hahah

and the response...

 

[anon45]

Not sure how Pakistan and India can follow Japan's example. Japan was defeated completely and surrendered unconditionally in WW2. We occupied and still occupies their country with armies. We sort of owned them. We abolished their old system - government, military, media, etc, and put in new ones, in our favor of course. We wrote their constitution. We installed a friendly government, which influenced the populace throughout the years. We still have tens of thousands troop stationing there, "protecting" them. We built a friendly country from scratch.

It helped that the Japanese were more scared of what invading chinese and korean armies eager for revenge and headed by soviet officers would have done to them than the US occupation.

 

[fallstuff]

The reason is Pakistan denying its core identity, i.e. South Asian.

It denies its Hindu roots. The political Islam aka Abrahamic religions can never mingle with the Dharmic religions in the Indian Sub Continent. Pakistan finds its solace in the Arab identity. They think that Arab=True Islam.

One historian has correctly said, 'Islam is Arab Nationalism'.

Pakistan hasn't been able to grasp that it can adhere to its own culture, its own roots at the same time follow an outside religion.

It needs to look up to Bangladesh in that aspect.

Kashmir and NE been saying " we don't want anything to do with India, we look different, we are different culture, different people", how many Indians have been enlightened with that ?

 

[fallstuff]

U.S is underwriting Japan's security. They are happy with that.

 

[chharoonahmad]

Both are pretty big topics and many people will have different views. I don't think I can answer it fully either but just give a few points which could very well be an incomplete list

But what's reason(s) in your opinion that these countries are quite friendly to each other now?
1. Japan was completely defeated by the US and its armed forces were effectively curtailed constitutionally. Even now they have a constitutional provision that only defensive forces will be allowed and not offensive. After the war, the US heavily invested and helped in building back up the Japanese economy i.e. it did not rub its victory in Japanese face with humiliating treaties like how Germany was put under after WWI.

2. Both countries are long standing democracies. Have trade links and co-operate frequently in multilateral organisations like UN, IMF, APEC e.t.c.

3. Both countries had a common enemy/threat in the USSR and were allied together under the Cold War, that built up their relationship as well.



Just as a side topic if we take India and Pakistan they are still stuck in the past. What could the reasons for that?

1. Lack of trust is the main reason IMO. Kashmir can't be solved without building trust. A solution on Kashmir will be the last step in building up Indo-Pak co-operation.

2. Lack of transparency or democratic governments also plays a role. In Pakistan, the people need a sustained period of democratic role to build up institutions and effectively contribute to foreign policy and India specific issues. On the Indian side, its the GoI that matters because of the sustained period of democratic role.

3. Role of media/education/policy debates in shaping public opinion.

there could be many more


There are plenty of examples of former sworn enemies that became close partners because of the dynamics that required the partnership. Usually an external threat. So for close Indo-Pak co-operation, the quickest way would be an external threat that would affect both India and Pakistan and they would both have to join hands to fight against it. There was infact a similar situation under Ayub Khan when he had intelligence that China was going to attack in the J&K region, but he wasn't sure if it was the Indian side or Pakistani side. There was a suggestion of forming a defense pact between India and Pakistan but Nehru rejected probably to allay Chinese fears and maybe lack of trust in a military leader as well. This was before 1962.

I think first we would atleast have to have some cold peace, i.e. no terrorist attacks/ infiltrations in Kashmir e.t.c and an understanding over Afghanistan.

Then a build up of economic relations including transit trade and pipelines.

There could also be co-operation in international institutions which India and Pakistan already do like the UN or SAARC or ADB for the benfit of the region and hence building up trust.

Eventually when relations go on an uptrend and there is a level of trust a sustained democratic governance, a government with a strong mandate in both India and Pakistan can push through a final solution on Kashmir issue and other territory disputes. But these disputes should not be a block in building relations in other fields.

Dear Ejaz

I'm very much grateful to you for all your guidance. It has been very kind of you to help me. You know so much! I envy you.

With best wishes
Haroon