Featured Hasina calls for strengthening ties with Pakistan

[Species]

It's basically China!

US, under Biden, is expected to get more involved in this region which will create problems for AL and as a preemptive, Hasina is trying to secure Chinese support.

Not really surprising that this meeting coincided with the relocation of the first batch of Rohingyas to Bhashan Char, defying all Western concerns. These Bhashan Char Rohingyas will have to be entirely taken care of by Bangladesh government.

The biggest challenge ahead is the effects of graduation from LDC to middle income status where Bangladesh is set to lose its trade privileges, particularly in EU. Not sure if it's wise to irk the West at such a crucial time.

 

[SylhetiBDeshiAmerican]

I am impressed and deeply appreciate your linguistic flexibility. If it is all the same to you, I have a modest proficiency in Bengali also though the dialects from Chittagong and Sylhet are beyond me. I can and do carry on a reasonably comfortable small talk conversations with Bangladeshis.
You are a notable exception to the rule. Bangladeshis I have interacted with never speak in Hindi/Urdu. In fact I usually start the conversation in English until the other person gently reminds " Jodi mone na koren ...Bangla Kotha bolen"
Forget about Hindi/Urdu, even English is not acceptable in most situations in Dhaka . Kolkata is markedly different though where English fluency is supreme, but then that's a different country. Bangladeshis rightly are proud of their language and culture but that has yet to mature to the levels across the border.
Nations change over time. The Irish while speaking English have no particular reverence for their British cousins. In fact Ireland and UK are far closer than Pakistan and Bangladesh.
I don't see the relevance of the historical context and neither do the South Africans, Australians, New Zealanders with their British cousins.
Pakistan and Bangladesh are even more different than the Irish and the English. We don't have to be in a state of hatred, but just a mutual respect for each other's cultural space. The fact that we are geographically separated makes that easier. We can't enforce a cultural union beyond a certain point.
By the way I live in USA too but that does not give me the right to call anyone names simply because I disagree. I hope you agree at least on this point.

I am from Sylhet, Bangladesh most people actually mistake me as Iranian, Arab or even Mediterranean. Bengal has gone through three different migration, ASI,Munda people and last and dominant migration was Indo-Iranian to the region. Bangladesh is a heterogeneous nation with a homogenous identity. Most of the world is actually like that. It only took me less than 2 months to fully grasp the language by living with one of my roommate who couldn’t speak English as he was a new immigrant to the country and couldn’t converse in English, lastly I was amazed at the fact so many words and phrases are similar.

Musolmani Bengali language had a huge ammount Persian words. Slowly and gradually our language is being replaced by this Kolkata dominated Bengalism which I hope will one day change, but I do support the current regime in Bangladesh as it has delivered on the economic front, other things can be changed over time, just like Turkey changed its alphabet to Latin based and Kazakhstan is also trying to do the same to get away from its old Soviet Russian past to safeguard its identity. Regardless, Bengali is an Indo-Aryan language and it only takes us minimal amount of expose to Hindi-Urdu language to fully converse and learn.

I apologize for name calling, where in USA do you live?

Most Bangladeshies are not exposed to Hindu Urdu thus, they think they don’t want to try it or due to the fact that it has negative connotation in Bangladeshi history for now but if they listen with an open mind they will be amazed at how similar it is to our language. I am also Sylheti and actually Sylheti has more similarity with Hindi I believe it has lot vocabulary from Farsi and Hindi based on the way I grew up speaking Sylheti. Almost every Indian Pakistani at this local Bangladeshi grocery store who shop converse with Bangladeshi American employees in Hindi and Urdu, I experienced something very different than what you are describing. Also When it comes to religious sermon, they naturally use Farsi oriented words in Bangladesh. Our world is a lot smaller than we think we have more similarities than difference. It’s high we get rid of this 19 century views. I didn’t mean to offend or disrespect your view, I do appreciate your opinions though.

Whole of North India including Bengal was part of Mughal empire it wasn’t far back when we were not technologically as advanced as we are now. Thus, distance should be even less in 21st century. Take a look at the distance between Morrocco and Egypt just to ponder, which may change your perspective.

 

[DalalErMaNodi]

Countrymen, please wake the **** up and stop gobbling up veiled insults sugar coated as kind words.




Condescension is not appraisal.

 

[Destranator]

I guess the journalist intentionally didn’t mention that Hasina also said Bangladesh can’t forget what Pakistan army did to them and it was so hurtful that it’s unforgettable

Not surprising. Contributed to breaking of Pakistan by keeping people of the west Pakistan in the dark

Who’s gonna nuke us, anyone who tries risk destruction themselves...
Pakistan will nuke us? India will trust Pakistan’s rockets to not fall on India? And vice versa? What about China? 3 closest neighbors have nukes and don’t trust each other. Unless we’re in a nuclear world war... there wouldn’t be any problem

Nukes are useless in South Asia due to the risk of nuking your own country. India and Pakistan will never nuke each other unless the nukes fall in wrong hands.

Conventional bombs are sufficient as long as you have delivery platforms in place.

This is why Bangladesh should prioritise developing SRBMs, Long range CMs and guided artillery.
These would gurantee enough economic destruction of India and Burma to force them into recession.

 

[Baibars_1260]

I am from Sylhet, Bangladesh most people actually mistake me as Iranian, Arab or even Mediterranean. Bengal has gone through three different migration, ASI,Munda people and last and dominant migration was Indo-Iranian to the region. Bangladesh is a heterogeneous nation with a homogenous identity. Most of the world is actually like that. It only took me less than 2 months to fully grasp the language by living with one of my roommate who couldn’t speak English as he was a new immigrant to the country and couldn’t converse in English, lastly I was amazed at the fact so many words and phrases are similar.

Musolmani Bengali language had a huge ammount Persian words. Slowly and gradually our language is being replaced by this Kolkata dominated Bengalism which I hope will one day change, but I do support the current regime in Bangladesh as it has delivered on the economic front, other things can be changed over time, just like Turkey changed its alphabet to Latin based and Kazakhstan is also trying to do the same to get away from its old Soviet Russian past to safeguard its identity. Regardless, Bengali is an Indo-Aryan language and it only takes us minimal amount of expose to Hindi-Urdu language to fully converse and learn.

I apologize for name calling, where in USA do you live?

Most Bangladeshies are not exposed to Hindu Urdu thus, they think they don’t want to try it or due to the fact that it has negative connotation in Bangladeshi history for now but if they listen with an open mind they will be amazed at how similar it is to our language. I am also Sylheti and actually Sylheti has more similarity with Hindi I believe it has lot vocabulary from Farsi and Hindi based on the way I grew up speaking Sylheti. Almost every Indian Pakistani at this local Bangladeshi grocery store who shop converse with Bangladeshi American employees in Hindi and Urdu, I experienced something very different than what you are describing. Also When it comes to religious sermon, they naturally use Farsi oriented words in Bangladesh. Our world is a lot smaller than we think we have more similarities than difference. It’s high we get rid of this 19 century views. I didn’t mean to offend or disrespect your view, I do appreciate your opinions though.

Whole of North India including Bengal was part of Mughal empire it wasn’t far back when we were not technologically as advanced as we are now. Thus, distance should be even less in 21st century. Take a look at the distance between Morrocco and Egypt just to ponder, which may change your perspective.

Am deeply indebted for the education. I was completely ignorant of this aspect of the Bengali language and culture. After reading your fascinating post I now have an entirely different perspective.
Congratulations on an extremely well written and educative post.
I was completely off in judging Bangladesh from the Kolkata angle.

There is a reason for my unfortunate bias and I deeply apologize if I had unintentionally hurt any feelings.
I had developed a very entertaining social circle consisting of West Bengali ex-pat professionals, and the fact that they were bi-lingual and fairly proficient in simple Urdu (Kolkata street language) made me feel very much at home. I was surprised to learn that within India there is a large Bengali diaspora who speak multiple languages in addition to Bengali and of course English and Hindi. At my social circle they would often converse among themselves in Bengali which aroused my interest. I picked up a modest proficiency but what was most delightful was the way they introduced me to Bengali theater and movies, songs and poetry and translations of noted Bengali writers as well as original works in English ( Amitav Ghosh etc.) . I naturally developed a one sided view of the Bengali cultural heritage. I visited both Kolkata and Dhaka, and there was a difference which in my ignorance I was unable to understand. I will now make an effort to acquaint myself with Bangladeshi culture.
Thanks once again.
Answer to your question where I live in the USA. As of now I live in the South East but have lived for long periods in the South West and Northern Mid West. I have lived in the USA for 25 years but my work has till recently taken me to several countries in South and South East Asia., I am afraid I can't offer any more details. The purpose of our profiles is anonymity and our views are more important than who we are.
May I share this song with our Bangladeshi friends on this forum.
It sums up the inclusion and tolerance of diversity.
The words from point 3:50 onwards are especially relevant.

 

[fallstuff]

You are free to have your opinion of course but its entirely laughable.

BD is neither that weak nor India that strong. No country in the planet can take over a nation of 165m and control it.

You seem to forget that it was us who broke india and pakistan respectively to gain our sovereignty.

India needs 60 percent of its military just to control a few million people in landlocked kashmir and had an epic fail in srilanka when they tried.

BD has clear path....it is not the same as pakistans and it not beholden to any nation for anything.

India has its elite forces and equipment facing Pakistan, and China to some extent these days. India does not need an enemy on the eastern border. Bangladesh has nothing to gain by being hostile to India, but also certainly do not want to be walked all over by India.

Air Force is low on capable combat aircrafts, however the number of anti-aircraft systems are quite good.

 

[SpaceMan18]

You sound like the most ignorant person ever to exist when it comes to the history of South Asia, I am a Bangladeshi American who immigrated to USA during my childhood. I had no interaction with Hindi-Urdu speakers and yet I can converse in Hindi and Urdu perfectly with my Pakistani and Indian friends. Our languages are all interrelated and it is easier for us Bangladeshies to understand Urdu-Hindi due to our shared Indo-European (Indo-Aryan) language family. It is very easier for us to learn and grasp Hindi Urdu than any other languages. Lastly there are many Persians that settled in Bengal during Sultanate of Bengal who also contributed to the rise of Islam and east Bengal (Bangladesh), thus Bengali has high amount of Persian words. Russia is huge country and a whole of Siberia is part of Russia who belongs to completely separate language and cultures and racial group, they are belong to Mongolian linguistic family much like Central Asia and look pretty much Mongloid and yet belong in same nation. Time for this close mindedness to end. Bangladesh is only 2 hours away from Pakistan by flight. Centuries old ties cannot be undone by Kolkata and Sanskrit dominated Bengalism. Bangladeshis identities more with Bangladeshism not Bengalism.
Read my previous post to enlighten yourself, you are acting like we belong in two different planet, grow up:

Debunking the claim of 200,000 rapes in 1971

There is NO EVIDENCE of ANY of that having happened. IF there was then the bangladeshis and indians would have forwarded that evidence to the international war crimes tribunal at the Hague. You can read Hamoodur Rahman Commission report. Atrocities did happen on both sides, but not as much as...

defence.pk

Bangladesh and Pakistan should have a joint defense fund and should uplift eachother economically by providing taxes for joint defense needs in increasingly hostile South Asia to safeguard and preserve safety and security for its people. I want even India to work with Bangladesh and Pakistan to better the condition of people of South Asia as a whole. Stop with those close minded and ignorant views. Please study economical and geopolitical landscape to enlighten your close mindedness!

India will never and I mean NEVER want to see a developed Bangladesh , cause that would make them look inferior and it would mean a massive L for them.

Bangladesh should just work with Japan, Korea,China, Taiwan and Singapore for national development to become a developed country quick as possible.

Working with Pakistan won't help cause aren't developed or rich enough to help us.

For defense working with Turkey and Korea will help the most , maybe Italians

Cause Pakistan military gear won't quite help us

Nukes are useless in South Asia due to the risk of nuking your own country. India and Pakistan will never nuke each other unless the nukes fall in wrong hands.

Conventional bombs are sufficient as long as you have delivery platforms in place.

This is why Bangladesh should prioritise developing SRBMs, Long range CMs and guided artillery.
These would gurantee enough economic destruction of India and Burma to force them into recession.

I agree , China and or Turkey can help us in this field to gain expertise on CMs and or SRBMs

and don't forget GLMRs

Since we are moving away from India , hopefully we will start to rearm ourselves

 

[SylhetiBDeshiAmerican]

Am deeply indebted for the education. I was completely ignorant of this aspect of the Bengali language and culture. After reading your fascinating post I now have an entirely different perspective.
Congratulations on an extremely well written and educative post.
I was completely off in judging Bangladesh from the Kolkata angle.

There is a reason for my unfortunate bias and I deeply apologize if I had unintentionally hurt any feelings.
I had developed a very entertaining social circle consisting of West Bengali ex-pat professionals, and the fact that they were bi-lingual and fairly proficient in simple Urdu (Kolkata street language) made me feel very much at home. I was surprised to learn that within India there is a large Bengali diaspora who speak multiple languages in addition to Bengali and of course English and Hindi. At my social circle they would often converse among themselves in Bengali which aroused my interest. I picked up a modest proficiency but what was most delightful was the way they introduced me to Bengali theater and movies, songs and poetry and translations of noted Bengali writers as well as original works in English ( Amitav Ghosh etc.) . I naturally developed a one sided view of the Bengali cultural heritage. I visited both Kolkata and Dhaka, and there was a difference which in my ignorance I was unable to understand. I will now make an effort to acquaint myself with Bangladeshi culture.
Thanks once again.
Answer to your question where I live in the USA. As of now I live in the South East but have lived for long periods in the South West and Northern Mid West. I have lived in the USA for 25 years but my work has till recently taken me to several countries in South and South East Asia., I am afraid I can't offer any more details. The purpose of our profiles is anonymity and our views are more important than who we are.
May I share this song with our Bangladeshi friends on this forum.
It sums up the inclusion and tolerance of diversity.
The words from point 3:50 onwards are especially relevant.

Thank you very much for your kind words. You’re a very intellectual person, and I believe you are giving me way more credit than I deserve. I am extremely humbled by your graciousness, open mindedness and for your curiosity. I totally understand and I also do not like to disclose my personal information as well. I will only disclose that I currently live in Northeastern part of the United States. Here is an interesting read: https://www.thedailystar.net/star-w...w-the-persian-language-seeped-bengali-1728421

And I have also been doing some research on our Mosulmani Bengali heritage and I believe only one Bangladeshi singer named Kazi Nazrul Islam came close to utilizing our beloved Musolmani Bengali even in the midst of sanskrit dominated Bengalism that was imposed on our people. I love Urdu, it’s such an amazing and melodic language. I love Atif Aslam, Adnan Sami etc.

Please listen to it and let me know your views after you listening to it. I would love to hear your reaction, thoughts from it: https://www.thedailystar.net/star-w...w-the-persian-language-seeped-bengali-1728421

It pains me to see that our glorious Musolmani Bengali is being erased by Kolkata Dominated Bengalism that was imposed on our people, I hope people of Bangladesh will preserve our past glorious history and it’s heritage.

I also apologize for utilizing harsh tones and harsh or harsh phrases to express my dismay. Thank you and I look forward to reading your next post as well all of the other PDF members’ posts as well. I would also like to learn more about the work of Allama Iqbal as well.

 

[SylhetiBDeshiAmerican]

India will never and I mean NEVER want to see a developed Bangladesh , cause that would make them look inferior and it would mean a massive L for them.

Bangladesh should just work with Japan, Korea,China, Taiwan and Singapore for national development to become a developed country quick as possible.

Working with Pakistan won't help cause aren't developed or rich enough to help us.

For defense working with Turkey and Korea will help the most , maybe Italians

Cause Pakistan military gear won't quite help us


I agree , China and or Turkey can help us in this field to gain expertise on CMs and or SRBMs

and don't forget GLMRs

Since we are moving away from India , hopefully we will start to rearm ourselves

I agree, we should continue to do that while preserving our past heritage. We should work with all whom benefit us. Our past history, our geopolitics merits us to foster close bonds and build relationship with Pakistan based on mutual respect and dignity for both sides. Never say they will not be able to help us, you never know what is in card, thus let us all work together and March ahead while also preserving and safeguarding those relationships.

 

[SylhetiBDeshiAmerican]

 

[Baibars_1260]

Thank you very much for your kind words. You’re a very intellectual person, and I believe you are giving me way more credit than I deserve. I am extremely humbled by your graciousness, open mindedness and for your curiosity. I totally understand and I also do not like to disclose my personal information as well. I will only disclose that I currently live in Northeastern part of the United States. Here is an interesting read:
https://www.thedailystar.net/star-w...w-the-persian-language-seeped-bengali-1728421

Fascinating ! Once again my heartfelt gratitude. Once again my sincere apologies for my ill informed bias. My ignorance and bias was so much embedded in my mind that unless we had this interaction I would have remained with a very narrow mindset.
With one sweep my perspective has changed though I have a lot to catchup on improving my knowledge of Muslim Bengali culture.
The Islami Gaan written by Qazi Nazrul Islam in the link you sent me was enchantingly spiritual. What is more the songs were so easy for me to understand.
It is hard to say which of the songs are the best because they are all so beautiful. The first is what closely resembles what we call a naat or salaam in Urdu or a hymn in praise of the Prophet ( S.A.W ) .It is the most beautiful song in the collection:
"Aye re Shagor Akashey..."
The music and beat / rhythm is distinctly Persian or Middle Eastern.
The third song is what in Urdu would be termed as a Hamd or praise of Allah :
"Sukkhi Tumi Dukhi Tumi ...Chokhe tumi..."
This hamd was beautiful and sung in the traditional style with no background music.The fourth song is a salaam also.
But two other songs I particularly liked :
1. Ei Sundar phul...mitha nodir paani.... Khuda Tomar Mehrbaani
2. Masjide dere kabar amar pass delo bhai ...
The last song was heart rendering . It starts with a section of the Fajr azaan.. As salaat al khairum min noom. The singer is requesting to be buried near the mosque so that he can hear the azaan.
You were correct about the influence of Persian and inclusion of Persian words in the Musolmani Bengali vocabulary . The article from Daily Star was particularly illuminating.,

And I have also been doing some research on our Mosulmani Bengali heritage and I believe only one Bangladeshi singer named Kazi Nazrul Islam came close to utilizing our beloved Musolmani Bengali even in the midst of sanskrit dominated Bengalism that was imposed on our people. I love Urdu, it’s such an amazing and melodic language. I love Atif Aslam, Adnan Sami etc.

Your research on the Musolmani Bengali heritage is intense and extremely interesting. It is extremely heartening to know that the cultural heritage unique to Bangladesh and distinct from West Bengal is being preserved and strengthened.

It pains me to see that our glorious Musolmani Bengali is being erased by Kolkata Dominated Bengalism that was imposed on our people, I hope people of Bangladesh will preserve our past glorious history and it’s heritage.

Being an Urdu speaker I share your pain. In essence I now realize that Musolmani Bengali is as different from the Kolkata Bengali as Urdu is from Sanskritized Hindi, except that the script is the same.,
The Indian Urdu speakers are in the same position as Musolmani Bengali speakers were about 100 years back about the time Kazi Nazrul Islam wrote his poems. Aggressive Sankritization of Bengali by the Brahmin dominated bhadralok was stifling their linguistic and religious identity. There was a resistance which led to the formation of East and West Bengal and ultimately the Musolmani Bengali culture found a home in a new independent nation. Congratulations to the Musolmani Bengalis and a salute to their heritage. They have fought and won a struggle for their identity.

Sankritisation is being forced not only on Bengali in India (like in the districts of Malda and Kolkata suburbs) but on all languages in the Indian subcontinent as part of a revisionist Hindutva agenda to turn the clock back to the "Vedic era " crushing centuries of a coalescing of cultures and languages . So Punjabi, Dogri, Haryanvi, Avadhi, Bhopali, Deccani, all of which have a rich collection of Persian words in their vocabulary are being purged of these words by a huge state coordinated effort., The aim is to purge the subcontinent of all "foreign" influences which essentially means Muslim. It is deliberate and well planned. In India the simple Hindustani has been replaced by an artificial sanskritized Hindi and Urdu/Persian and Arabic words have been officially banned. Urdu which was native to Northern and Central India and has been crushed completely and teaching or learning the language has been made impossible in all states with the ironic and notable exception of West Bengal. A few weeks back Urdu which had been a state language in Kashmir was banned and replaced with Sanskrit Hindi. Unlike Musolmani Bengali Urdu suffers from the disadvantage of having the Persian script. So killing the script by removing the means to learn it essentially kills the language .
But languages are resilient. Urdu is dead in India but it found a new home in Pakistan where even though only 18% identity the language as their mother tongue it has become a language for communication, basic education, administration and also a lingua franca across the country., It is also widely spoken in the Persian Gulf countries on account of the ex-pat labor population.
The Sankritization of India has reached such a level that the Indian Parliament uses interpreters over a communication system and you can see Indian lawmakers wearing headphones which they sometimes remove and hurl at each other because they can't understand what is being said.

The Bangladesh Jatiyo Sansad and Pakistan National Assemblies have no need for such an arrangement.

I also apologize for utilizing harsh tones and harsh or harsh phrases to express my dismay. Thank you and I look forward to reading your next post as well all of the other PDF members’ posts as well. I would also like to learn more about the work of Allama Iqbal as well.

Please don't apologize. The apologies should come only from me as I have in my ignorance written extremely offensive and provocative posts. Please do forgive me. Yes, I would like to discuss Allama Iqbal with you. I am a greatly impressed by his writings. His Persian writings are particularly philosophical.

 

[SylhetiBDeshiAmerican]

Fascinating ! Once again my heartfelt gratitude. Once again my sincere apologies for my ill informed bias. My ignorance and bias was so much embedded in my mind that unless we had this interaction I would have remained with a very narrow mindset.
With one sweep my perspective has changed though I have a lot to catchup on improving my knowledge of Muslim Bengali culture.
The Islami Gaan written by Qazi Nazrul Islam in the link you sent me was enchantingly spiritual. What is more the songs were so easy for me to understand.
It is hard to say which of the songs are the best because they are all so beautiful. The first is what closely resembles what we call a naat or salaam in Urdu or a hymn in praise of the Prophet ( S.A.W ) .It is the most beautiful song in the collection:
"Aye re Shagor Akashey..."
The music and beat / rhythm is distinctly Persian or Middle Eastern.
The third song is what in Urdu would be termed as a Hamd or praise of Allah :
"Sukkhi Tumi Dukhi Tumi ...Chokhe tumi..."
This hamd was beautiful and sung in the traditional style with no background music.The fourth song is a salaam also.
But two other songs I particularly liked :
1. Ei Sundar phul...mitha nodir paani.... Khuda Tomar Mehrbaani
2. Masjide dere kabar amar pass delo bhai ...
The last song was heart rendering . It starts with a section of the Fajr azaan.. As salaat al khairum min noom. The singer is requesting to be buried near the mosque so that he can hear the azaan.
You were correct about the influence of Persian and inclusion of Persian words in the Musolmani Bengali vocabulary . The article from Daily Star was particularly illuminating.,


Your research on the Musolmani Bengali heritage is intense and extremely interesting. It is extremely heartening to know that the cultural heritage unique to Bangladesh and distinct from West Bengal is being preserved and strengthened.


Being an Urdu speaker I share your pain. In essence I now realize that Musolmani Bengali is as different from the Kolkata Bengali as Urdu is from Sanskritized Hindi, except that the script is the same.,
The Indian Urdu speakers are in the same position as Musolmani Bengali speakers were about 100 years back about the time Kazi Nazrul Islam wrote his poems. Aggressive Sankritization of Bengali by the Brahmin dominated bhadralok was stifling their linguistic and religious identity. There was a resistance which led to the formation of East and West Bengal and ultimately the Musolmani Bengali culture found a home in a new independent nation. Congratulations to the Musolmani Bengalis and a salute to their heritage. They have fought and won a struggle for their identity.

Sankritisation is being forced not only on Bengali in India (like in the districts of Malda and Kolkata suburbs) but on all languages in the Indian subcontinent as part of a revisionist Hindutva agenda to turn the clock back to the "Vedic era " crushing centuries of a coalescing of cultures and languages . So Punjabi, Dogri, Haryanvi, Avadhi, Bhopali, Deccani, all of which have a rich collection of Persian words in their vocabulary are being purged of these words by a huge state coordinated effort., The aim is to purge the subcontinent of all "foreign" influences which essentially means Muslim. It is deliberate and well planned. In India the simple Hindustani has been replaced by an artificial sanskritized Hindi and Urdu/Persian and Arabic words have been officially banned. Urdu which was native to Northern and Central India and has been crushed completely and teaching or learning the language has been made impossible in all states with the ironic and notable exception of West Bengal. A few weeks back Urdu which had been a state language in Kashmir was banned and replaced with Sanskrit Hindi. Unlike Musolmani Bengali Urdu suffers from the disadvantage of having the Persian script. So killing the script by removing the means to learn it essentially kills the language .
But languages are resilient. Urdu is dead in India but it found a new home in Pakistan where even though only 18% identity the language as their mother tongue it has become a language for communication, basic education, administration and also a lingua franca across the country., It is also widely spoken in the Persian Gulf countries on account of the ex-pat labor population.
The Sankritization of India has reached such a level that the Indian Parliament uses interpreters over a communication system and you can see Indian lawmakers wearing headphones which they sometimes remove and hurl at each other because they can't understand what is being said.

The Bangladesh Jatiyo Sansad and Pakistan National Assemblies have no need for such an arrangement.


Please don't apologize. The apologies should come only from me as I have in my ignorance written extremely offensive and provocative posts. Please do forgive me. Yes, I would like to discuss Allama Iqbal with you. I am a greatly impressed by his writings. His Persian writings are particularly philosophical.

Thank you so much for your elaborate and thoughtful response. I will respond later tonight.

 

[xyx007]

Pakistan Bangladesh Relations since 1971 have seen so many changes from Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, Sheikh Mujeeb-ur-Rehaman & Now PM Imran Khan & Sheikh Hasina Wajid. India is looking at the new threat of block where China, Turkey, and Pakistan are coming to Dhaka. We can start our new relationship with BD and understand that true mistakes were committed on both sides, and forgiveness is the only divine act to bond our relationship. Let's bury the differences and enter a new life of prosperity and peace. As Pakistani, We always think positive for our bangli brother, even our troops sacrificed for our eastern wing and fighting such an odd war where we had seen logistic and heavy international conspiracy involvement.
Moreover, Bengali's romance with India played a pivotal role in our surrender. We had chosen a dedicated, independent state route for Bangladesh and acknowledged gracefully in the UN even after our surrender. Otherwise, we knew the fact that Bangladesh could become a part of India's colony. We never an enemy of any Muslim brother. It was a distant relationship, and our arch-enemy found it an opportunity and created so much miss-communication between us.
We understand that there's a lot of Indian lobbies and TV channels in Bangladesh which are using all type of propaganda that our relationship never normalized.

The Quran says,

Indeed Qiyamah is approaching, so pardon (those who wrong you) with most graceful pardon (without revenge). ~ Quran 15:85

 

[Saiful Islam]

Am deeply indebted for the education. I was completely ignorant of this aspect of the Bengali language and culture. After reading your fascinating post I now have an entirely different perspective.
Congratulations on an extremely well written and educative post.
I was completely off in judging Bangladesh from the Kolkata angle.

There is a reason for my unfortunate bias and I deeply apologize if I had unintentionally hurt any feelings.
I had developed a very entertaining social circle consisting of West Bengali ex-pat professionals, and the fact that they were bi-lingual and fairly proficient in simple Urdu (Kolkata street language) made me feel very much at home. I was surprised to learn that within India there is a large Bengali diaspora who speak multiple languages in addition to Bengali and of course English and Hindi. At my social circle they would often converse among themselves in Bengali which aroused my interest. I picked up a modest proficiency but what was most delightful was the way they introduced me to Bengali theater and movies, songs and poetry and translations of noted Bengali writers as well as original works in English ( Amitav Ghosh etc.) . I naturally developed a one sided view of the Bengali cultural heritage. I visited both Kolkata and Dhaka, and there was a difference which in my ignorance I was unable to understand. I will now make an effort to acquaint myself with Bangladeshi culture.
Thanks once again.
Answer to your question where I live in the USA. As of now I live in the South East but have lived for long periods in the South West and Northern Mid West. I have lived in the USA for 25 years but my work has till recently taken me to several countries in South and South East Asia., I am afraid I can't offer any more details. The purpose of our profiles is anonymity and our views are more important than who we are.
May I share this song with our Bangladeshi friends on this forum.
It sums up the inclusion and tolerance of diversity.
The words from point 3:50 onwards are especially relevant.

You mentioned in a previous post about how Bengali is synonymous with Kolkata or Hinduism, but that couldn't be further from the truth the people to people contact with Bangladeshi Bengalis is much more than West Bengalis. Indian diasporas abroad usually comprise of mainly Punjabis/Gujaratis.

 

[Baibars_1260]

You mentioned in a previous post about how Bengali is synonymous with Kolkata or Hinduism, but that couldn't be further from the truth the people to people contact with Bangladeshi Bengalis is much more than West Bengalis. Indian diasporas abroad usually comprise of mainly Punjabis/Gujaratis.

From one perspective ( and not necessarily the correct one ) that viewpoint holds true; for the simple reason that Bangladesh either through state sponsored efforts or through interest groups rarely project the Musolmani Bengali culture. Which is why a non-Bengali person like me is far more likely to be exposed to a movie by Satyajit Ray and theater performances by Badal Sarkar.
I agree with you that the majority of the Indian diaspora is Punjabi or Gujarati. We are not discussing Punjabi Sikh or Patel ex-pat Indian diaspora, and in any case their professions are more towards self employment and small business. They contribute little to projecting India's cultural image and are mostly very tightly knit communities that rarely interact with other Indian ex-pat or diaspora communities. India is not mono-cultural and mono-lingual but very diverse and Bengali culture and language ( termed West Bengali, now that I am better informed ). is but ONE culture of India.
The South Indians, Marathis, UP and Delhi Punjabi upper caste Hindus , and of course the West Bengali bhadralok make up the majority of the white collar professionals in the Indian diaspora So a Pakistani like me is far more likely to have a one-on-one social contact with such people of Indian origin as colleagues in the workplace than with a Sikh taxi driver or Patel grocery store owner.
Professional Pakistanis run into South Indians far more than Indian Bengali or Hindi speaking upper caste Northern Hindus, simply because South Indians dominate the professional scene in North America. The two groups that project their culture the most are South Indians and of course the West Bengali bhadralok . It is simply a choice I made. I found a lot of intellectual compatibility with the West Bengali professional elite on account of their " left-of-center " political views, strictly secular outlook, their extreme fluency in English, and a remarkable fluency in Hindi/Urdu. Their tolerance for differing opinions was remarkable. Like South Indians I could discuss any topic in the world with them. They never highlighted their Bengali identity. But on expressing my own curiosity about their culture they generously opened the flood gates to me exposing me to West Bengali . culture. There were Robindro Songeet sessions in their homes where amateur talent abounded.
My friend's spouse was a physician but was also an accomplished sitar player and another friend's spouse ( also a physician) was a talented solo singer specializing in Dwijendrageeti . During October when they have their Durga Puja celebrations they would hold public music and theater events to which I would get a free tickets. Attending these was a very pleasant experience and I wasn't the only non-Bengali attending; there were other Indians mostly from northern India as well
as Americans. Attending these events was easy because the plays or songs were meticulously translated by an introductory speaker or master of ceremonies. I was told the South Indians, particularly those from Tamil Nadu have their own cultural groups.
The final point...
Despite India being the mortal enemy of Pakistan I unfortunately ( repeat unfortunately) identify with Indians because like India, Pakistan is diverse. Pakistan is not mono-lingual, mono-cultural but has a rich diversity of cultures . We are not as diverse as India and unlike India we have a common communication language, (which is a good thing). But the diversity in Pakistan makes us much more flexible as a mindset to be receptive to other languages and cultures as well as proudly holding our heads high on our own culture.
Karachi is a "melting point " of cultures both from the subcontinent and from many parts of the Middle East . Karachi even has a legacy Bengali library and a small but vibrant Bengali speaking community, who even celebrate Poila Baisakh .
To be brief. I sought a diverse intellectual company,( beyond the grocery store chat and the mosque) and found it in the West Bengali ex-pat diaspora. Having said that I do have a very close circle of friends and relatives from my own country and it is a delight to share Urdu poetry and literature over excellent food, where unfortunately my West Bengali social circle falls short.
Pakistanis make the best food (period). I don't much relish luchi aloo dom though it is good for a change.
I hope I have answered your question.
When I visited Dhaka I was looking at the country through West Bengali eyes and Ekushey February had no significance for me because it is hardly known or even talked about in West Bengal. But now I know better. Maybe on my next trip to BD I will go to Ramna Maidan on that occasion.,
My respects to the Musolmani Bengali cultural heritage of Bangladesh and congratulations on preserving this.
May I add the song below written by Atulya Sen of Dhaka. I was introduced to it by my West Bengali friends .

All people have the right to be proud of their language and I am proud of my own so I will exit this thread with the couplet.

اردو ہے چسکا نام ہم ہی جانتے ہیں داغ
سارے جہاں میں دھوم ہماری زُباں کی ہے

Trans: I Daag ( the poet) only know what is the ( meaning of ) the name of Urdu. It is famous though out the world..
Have modified the original couplet so "ouch" in advance if someone here raps my knuckles.