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Has Saudi Arabia declared "Oil Price War"?

@LeveragedBuyout @SvenSvensonov

2.It would discourage further investment in Shale. As @SvenSvensonov has pointed out, Shale prices are decreasing due to technology innovation.But if Shale stops making profit, those technological investments would cease for the lack of investment.This would mean that Shale would not have the same technological edge as it would have had Oil prices remained high ,when Oil prices rise after two years.

Much of what you wrote has credence, but I think this point (#2) is a bit different from what is often stated. US shale draws a parallel to the company Intel. Intel gained its market share, and a huge one at that, by investing at a time when all others saw nothing but risk and a lack of profit. Similarly, when times are rough this just incentivizes companies and US researchers to find a way to reduce the cost of a technology, in this instance shale production, further. What we will see is small companies having problems, perhaps they will be bought-out or merged, but the large companies will ride out the decline in prices and increase their investment in new technologies so such price disruptions have an even more limited impact on them in the future.

I posted an excerpt from a Reuters article above, in it, it talks about the opportunities the shale industry is seeing amid the price decline. All is not lost for US shale.

I'll post the excerpt again here:

However, the sharp declines also create an opportunity.

"We recently moved from an underweight to a neutral weight rating in energy, so directionally we agree with the idea that this weakness is a buying opportunity, but it is very hard to tell where the bottom is," said Tony Roth, chief investment officer at Wilmington Trust in Wilmington, Delaware.

"Crude seems to have no floor right now, and we could easily see the price drop into the low $60s."

With the big stock price drops, others see a run to consolidation. The sector subindex is down 12 percent in 2014, with year-to-date losses of more than 20 percent in seven companies.

"I think we’ll see some healthy consolidation take place," said Brian Jacobsen, chief portfolio strategist at Wells Fargo Funds Management in Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin.

"Some may wither on the vine, but technology has improved to make it profitable to extract at a lower price point than last year. As a result, we’ll probably see some opportunistic buying."

Jacobsen and Krosby said the slide in oil prices and the sector's shares does not mean the boom in the energy sector in the United States is ending, but will likely enter a new stage of development.

"The renaissance isn't over," said Jacobsen. "It's just maturing."


As energy shares tumble, opportunity lurks| Reuters

Any price decline, especially long-term, will present problems for US shale, but problems don't exist without benefits and we could see the US shale industry become even more resilient as a result of the lessons learned during these low-price times.
 
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Much of what you wrote has credence, but I think this point (#2) is a bit different from what is often stated. US shale draws a parallel to the company Intel. Intel gained its market share, and a huge one at that, but investing at a time when all others say nothing buy risk and a lack of profit. Similarly, when times are rough this just incentivizes companies and US researchers to find a way to reduce the cost of a technology, in this instance shale production, further. What we will see is small companies having problems, perhaps they will be bought out, but the large companies will ride out the decline in prices and increase their investment in new technologies so such price disruptions have an even more limited impact on them in the future.

I posted an excerpt from a Reuters article above, in it, it talks about the opportunities the shale industry is seeing amid the price decline. All is not lost for US shale.

I'll post the excerpt again here:

However, the sharp declines also create an opportunity.

"We recently moved from an underweight to a neutral weight rating in energy, so directionally we agree with the idea that this weakness is a buying opportunity, but it is very hard to tell where the bottom is," said Tony Roth, chief investment officer at Wilmington Trust in Wilmington, Delaware.

"Crude seems to have no floor right now, and we could easily see the price drop into the low $60s."

With the big stock price drops, others see a run to consolidation. The sector subindex is down 12 percent in 2014, with year-to-date losses of more than 20 percent in seven companies.

"I think we’ll see some healthy consolidation take place," said Brian Jacobsen, chief portfolio strategist at Wells Fargo Funds Management in Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin.

"Some may wither on the vine, but technology has improved to make it profitable to extract at a lower price point than last year. As a result, we’ll probably see some opportunistic buying."

Jacobsen and Krosby said the slide in oil prices and the sector's shares does not mean the boom in the energy sector in the United States is ending, but will likely enter a new stage of development.

"The renaissance isn't over," said Jacobsen. "It's just maturing."


As energy shares tumble, opportunity lurks| Reuters

Any price decline, especially long-term, will present problems for US shale, but problems don't exist without benefits and we could see the US shale industry become even more resilient as a result of the lessons learned during these low-price times.


I wish that is true. Diversity in sources would be great for country like India which does not have any Oil reserves. It would also curtail robber-esq behavior of OPEC.


BTW, when Intel invested in chips, there were no competitors who could produce chips at a lower price. Chip manufacture was a greenfield sector while Shale Oil is a brown field sector. Here investors would have to contend with competitors whose production costs are low.Chances of a breakthrough like Intel are small.

The only reason shale production took off is because Oil producers have shitty economies and they require high prices to balance their budgets, thus cartelization and price gouging. Had major Oil reserves like those of Saudis been in US,Canda,Europe, China, or India; Shale would never had taken off.
 
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@LeveragedBuyout @SvenSvensonov


I think low prices would hurt Shale production in following ways

1. In short term, it may lead to closing down of Shale wells or may lead to bankrupting of investors, though i doubt that latter is possible as any competent investor would protect his Shale oil investment by buying options for low Oil price.

2.It would discourage further investment in Shale. As @SvenSvensonov has pointed out, Shale prices are decreasing due to technology innovation.But if Shale stops making profit, those technological improvements would cease for the lack of investment.This would mean that Shale would not have the same technological edge as it would have had Oil prices remained high ,when Oil prices rise after two years.

3.If Shale close down/drop down, it would require some time in order to even come at full production let alone, account for increased consumption that would have occurred in meantime.

4.Saudis by driving Shale out of production would be showing their economic muscle thus spooking investors that any investment in Shale would be unsafe.

5.Decrease in Oil prices would increase production costs. Production costs not only depends on technological cost of fracking, it also depends upon cost of raising capital. If investment in Shale is seen as risky and/or unstable, it would increase borrowing cost of shale producers as interests would rise since investors would need to recoup their investment in short time.

6. It may also be a ploy to increase demand. Demand of Oil is not elastic.Once increased, it is very difficult to be scaled back as most of infrastructure to consume Oil is in place.

I may be reading this wrong but Saudi intention does not seem to be that of kill Shale but harm it to the extent that it would take some time to recover thus allowing Saudis to enjoy relatively high Oil price ( though not vulgar high) for longer time period and to preempt any further technological advancement in Shale technology.Even Saudi would become irrelevant if production cost of Shale fall below $30 per barrel.


7. Opec may have been spooked by increase in popularity of renewables. Personally i believe that Oil driven growth is an abomination, and economy should go green for sustainability of planet, but at same time i am aware of the fact that it would take anywhere between 20 to 80 years for solar and fusion power respectively to become competitive, Thus in the meantime we have to make peace with Hydrocarbon based growth; but if low Oil prices start hurting research in solar energy ( low prices would not hurt fusion, as all of research is funded by governments and even that as international consortium ), taxes on Oil should be raised to offset price drop.

,BTW You should post more on economics. You are most economically literate member on this forum.

Thank you for your kind words, @anonymus. I try my best to contribute in whatever small way I can (this is a defense forum, after all). You raise some great points, but please allow me to explain why I am relatively unconcerned.

From the perspective of shale business:
1) Profit: Eventually, this price war will hurt, but I anticipate it will take more than 5 years. Why? Because most of the costs of the existing shale oil production has already been sunk. To continue producing at the rate that we are today, we would of course have to invest more. But even if the price drops to a level where it is no longer profitable to invest, the sunset of existing production would still inject a significant amount of supply into the market. Will Saudi Arabia keep up this price war for years on end? Doubtful.

2) Investor outlook and cost of capital: The shale oil businesses have very strong balance sheets, so capital will not be an issue for them in the medium term. As @SvenSvensonov has already pointed out, technology continues to improve and the cost of production is dropping, not increasing, so it will be harder and harder to kill shale as more time passes. I doubt the cost of production will ever fall below Saudi's, but the level of pain that Saudi would have to endure just to achieve a temporary victory is outside of the realm of comprehension (and I assure you that even if fracking were suspended, it would resume once prices rose again).

From the perspective of the United States:
1) Low oil prices are unambiguously good, whether it's from our own fracking operations or Saudi Arabia.

2) Saudi Arabia is terribly shortsighted if it is engaging in a price war to kill fracking while ignoring its real competition, which is the non-OPEC oil production world. I can't emphasize enough how important Mexico's recent energy reforms are, and what that will do for world supply. Add in a stabilizing Iraq, the potential for Nigeria to clean up its mess, the possibility of a deal with Iran that allows to to export oil again, the possibility that Venezuela will eventually liquidate its authoritarian leadership and run its energy sector competently, reconciliation with Russia, etc. and you can see that oil supply is going to continue increasing even if fracking gets killed (which isn't going to happen).

20141018_FNC004_1.png


Add in the infighting in OPEC (you think the other OPEC members will just roll over and cut their own production to support prices, while Saudi increases production and gains market share?), and the sky is the limit on oil supplies.
20141123_OPEC4_0.jpg


3) Between continuously tightening fuel efficiency standards in cars, the green movement's push for renewables, and our switch to natural gas as a major energy source (and we are awash in natural gas, no matter what happens elsewhere in the world) the US is becoming less dependent on oil in general. US consumption, per the EIA:

chart.png


In short, fracking is extremely hard to kill, and the process would be extremely painful (if not impossible) for Saudi to achieve. It's unambiguously a buyer's market in oil, and that will not change for several years at least. @Chinese-Dragon has already pointed out China's own potential for fracking, and who knows what else is available in the SCS--so growing demand from China will not necessarily help OPEC out.

I appreciate your emphasis on the capital markets in your analysis--these are the factors analysts will be looking at, and traders will be hedging against. We will not see the sort of "super spike" that happened before 2008, and "peak oil" keeps getting delayed. I am going to steal from Goldman Sachs a bit here:

As we have discussed, we believe it is in OPEC’s interest to share the burden of balancing the oil market surplus with US shale oil production (and Price decline continues to lead deteriorating fundamentals). This can only be achieved by reducing output at a modest pace at first to allow for low prices to slow US production growth. In particular, any large cut that would lead to a large price rally would be self-negating as it would enable US producers to hedge 2015 production and sustain elevated production growth.

OPEC's dilemma:
20141123_OPEC1_0.jpg


(without getting too technical, what this chart shows is that even in the most aggressive capacity-cutting scenario, brent wouldn't even return to $100 by Q2 2015, and since OPEC [Saudi] isn't interested in cutting production, that means it's possible prices will continue to fall to ~$60 by Q2 2015.)

I am happy to take Saudi's money, and I am certain India is as well.
 
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I think low prices would hurt Shale production in following ways

1. In short term, it may lead to closing down of Shale wells or may lead to bankrupting of investors, though i doubt that latter is possible as any competent investor would protect his Shale oil investment by buying options for low Oil price.

2.It would discourage further investment in Shale. As @SvenSvensonov has pointed out, Shale prices are decreasing due to technology innovation.But if Shale stops making profit, those technological improvements would cease for the lack of investment.This would mean that Shale would not have the same technological edge as it would have had Oil prices remained high ,when Oil prices rise after two years.

3.If Shale close down/drop down, it would require some time in order to even come at full production let alone, account for increased consumption that would have occurred in meantime.

4.Saudis by driving Shale out of production would be showing their economic muscle thus spooking investors that any investment in Shale would be unsafe.

5.Decrease in Oil prices would increase production costs. Production costs not only depends on technological cost of fracking, it also depends upon cost of raising capital. If investment in Shale is seen as risky and/or unstable, it would increase borrowing cost of shale producers as interests would rise since investors would need to recoup their investment in short time.

6. It may also be a ploy to increase demand. Demand of Oil is not elastic.Once increased, it is very difficult to be scaled back as most of infrastructure to consume Oil is in place.

I may be reading this wrong but Saudi intention does not seem to be that of kill Shale but harm it to the extent that it would take some time to recover thus allowing Saudis to enjoy relatively high Oil price ( though not vulgar high) for longer time period and to preempt any further technological advancement in Shale technology.Even Saudi would become irrelevant if production cost of Shale fall below $30 per barrel.


7. Opec may have been spooked by increase in popularity of renewables. Personally i believe that Oil driven growth is an abomination, and economy should go green for sustainability of planet, but at same time i am aware of the fact that it would take anywhere between 20 to 80 years for solar and fusion power respectively to become competitive, Thus in the meantime we have to make peace with Hydrocarbon based growth; but if low Oil prices start hurting research in solar energy ( low prices would not hurt fusion, as all of research is funded by governments and even that as international consortium ), taxes on Oil should be raised to offset price drop.

once the production infrastructure is in place, you can temporarily stop the production if it cannot justify the cost. So short term you can run them out of production but as soon as price go up they will start the production. Same as Canadian oil sands which starts production when oil is above 70
 
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Who cares the reason but one thing is for sure its good for our ecenomy so keep lowering the price!
 
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This is just business and Saudi Arabia is looking after no one but itself. OPEC is attempting to make all producers a member of OPEC. Prince Turki Al Faisal was quoted saying "the kingdom would only consider cutting oil production if Iran, Russia and the US agreed to match those cuts because it wants to protect its market share."

"The kingdom is not going to give up market share at this time to anybody and allow - whether it is Russia, Nigeria, or Iran or other places - to sell oil to Saudi customer," said Prince Turki, who has also held Saudi Arabia top overseas diplomatic post as the kingdom's ambassador to the US.

Prince Turki added that Saudi Arabia and other producers (Gulf companies) would only consider adjusting production if other members of Opec adhered to the group's quotas and stopped making "under the table" deals to sell crude in barbed remarks apparently aimed at rivals Iran.

OPEC: Saudi Prince says Riyadh won't cut oil unless others follow - Telegraph

So why should KSA sell less oil whilst Russia, Iran and USAdo not?
 
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Russia gets its oil from tundra, USA is getting it from shale. While Saudi Arabia has the lowest production cost. So at the lowest price only they will be left in the market. Makes sense for them to bring down prices to get greater market share.
 
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