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Has KSA chosen a side?

I genuinely do not get the sort of emotive value that Pakistanis attach to foreign relations. Why do you believe that any outside Gov owes Pakistanis their 'loyalty'?

1. Does Pakistan have the financial wherewithal to withstand any economic measures taken against it by KSA and UAE? It does not.

2. Did Pakistan not opt to act in its own strategic interest and opt to sitout the Yemen conflict? Then why act like this is something KSA / UAE cannot do for themselves as well? You can talk all day about and 'incoming' implosion in the GCC but it will not be. Just take a look at the conduct of China (selling weapons, nuke tech and technical expertise in the region, becoming the biggest customer for oil from KSA et al, at the same time pushing for further integration with UAE economy and integrating itself with Iran), US (furthering ties still with the GCC), India (increasing ties with the GCC to the point where they are now part of the OIC).

3. Is this the first time that KSA has acted against Pakistan? Nope, in their larger national interest, they stopped backing Pakistan and let FATF put us on the gray list, not all that long ago. They were compensated for the move at the UN.

4. Pakistan's nuclear weapons do not guarantee it anything other than territorial security. All of its armed forces, economy and politicians have been largely dependent upon money from the GCC for everything from running the war in AF, to weapons purchases, to even sustaining a parity with India and not to mention to keep the country from going under. It was there until it served a purpose for the GCC, now that we showed that we can think for ourselves - they've opted to do the same for themselves. Unless and until Pakistanis start thinking for themselves and become actually cold and calculated in their outlook towards the world, this episode will keep on repeating.

5. Just please do remember that there's no free lunch in the world, anyone who gives you money will come asking for their pound of flesh. You'd remember it, when thinking of the relationship as anything but that. This stands as true for GCC as it has been for the US and as it will be for China.

6. If you actually want to have an independent foreign policy, end your economic dependencies. Do not expect others to abide by your sensitivities. The world has no place for emotions, it runs by cold, hard logic and national interests.
+ve
 
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Completely agree, no lunches at all for some time only, faqqa’s and belt tightening. We will just have to use more bikes to get to places with limited oil. Focus our oil on our industry as WE PRODUCE 50% of our needs locally. We will have to focus our industry on our own gas reserves.

drive less pajeros and more gadha Gari. This my friend is a watershed moment a time for us to tighten our belts and be FREE.

The bigger surprise is that we will go to war with India in 3-6 months. This time we will only have Allah and his Rasool on our side. Let’s see how we fair. This war will and its fire will forever forge us into a nation Ameen

kv


I leave you with another war where people fought for their freedom and won. please look at the number disparity

American independence
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Revolutionary_War

afghan war
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet–Afghan_War

Vietnam war
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War

kv
 
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Well how long should we live in the Gulami (slavery) of the Arabs.

We built our own fighter plane, our own tanks, our own nukes to be free. If the price of freedom is some faqa’s (hunger) then we have been practicing :pakistan:for this day every Ramadan for the last 70+ years

I must admit the Imran Khan showed leadership here Allah kamyab karay aur inshallah awam ki leya Assan karey. Ameen

kv

Brother technically we are more advanced than Arabs are primitive low developed intellectually, thats why slavery to them financially is even more illustrative of our failure as a state, They need us to operate their own military they don't know how to use these military toys lol, in order to not be failed state we need to give our citizens better high quality education otherwise 14th IMF bailout coming.
 
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Brother technically we are more advanced than Arabs are primitive low developed intellectually, thats why slavery to them financially is even more illustrative of our failure as a state, They need us to operate their own military they don't know how to use these military toys lol, in order to not be failed state we need to give our citizens better high quality education otherwise 14th IMF bailout coming.
This false arrogance is the true downfall of many Pakistanis - thinking you are some god’s gift to earth while being essentially worthless slackers
 
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I genuinely do not get the sort of emotive value that Pakistanis attach to foreign relations. Why do you believe that any outside Gov owes Pakistanis their 'loyalty'?

1. Does Pakistan have the financial wherewithal to withstand any economic measures taken against it by KSA and UAE? It does not.

2. Did Pakistan not opt to act in its own strategic interest and opt to sitout the Yemen conflict? Then why act like this is something KSA / UAE cannot do for themselves as well? You can talk all day about and 'incoming' implosion in the GCC but it will not be. Just take a look at the conduct of China (selling weapons, nuke tech and technical expertise in the region, becoming the biggest customer for oil from KSA et al, at the same time pushing for further integration with UAE economy and integrating itself with Iran), US (furthering ties still with the GCC), India (increasing ties with the GCC to the point where they are now part of the OIC).

3. Is this the first time that KSA has acted against Pakistan? Nope, in their larger national interest, they stopped backing Pakistan and let FATF put us on the gray list, not all that long ago. They were compensated for the move at the UN.

4. Pakistan's nuclear weapons do not guarantee it anything other than territorial security. All of its armed forces, economy and politicians have been largely dependent upon money from the GCC for everything from running the war in AF, to weapons purchases, to even sustaining a parity with India and not to mention to keep the country from going under. It was there until it served a purpose for the GCC, now that we showed that we can think for ourselves - they've opted to do the same for themselves. Unless and until Pakistanis start thinking for themselves and become actually cold and calculated in their outlook towards the world, this episode will keep on repeating.

5. Just please do remember that there's no free lunch in the world, anyone who gives you money will come asking for their pound of flesh. You'd remember it, when thinking of the relationship as anything but that. This stands as true for GCC as it has been for the US and as it will be for China.

6. If you actually want to have an independent foreign policy, end your economic dependencies. Do not expect others to abide by your sensitivities. The world has no place for emotions, it runs by cold, hard logic and national interests.

True, we are not an important country, that importance will only come when we develop our human capital and become a big rich economically developed country. Not one that is dependent on Arabs/Chinese/America/AID/IMF/WORLDBANK....ETC....
 
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This false arrogance is the true downfall of many Pakistanis - thinking you are some god’s gift to earth while being essentially worthless slackers
It's facts, KSA needs us to operate their own military equipment, they don't make anything substantial apart from oil.
 
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Pakistani establishment and politicians are both to be blamed for their choices and economic dependency on one country or the other.

When Gov of Pak opts to tax businesses, they hid behind the COAS to escape taxes. There’s no one single party that’s to be blamed for the situation we find ourselves in. It’s been a collective failure of leadership.
 
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Pakistani establishment and politicians are both to be blamed for their choices and economic dependency on one country or the other.

When Gov of Pak opts to tax businesses, they hid behind the COAS to escape taxes. There’s no one single party that’s to be blamed for the situation we find ourselves in. It’s been a collective failure of leadership.
The solution is to develop human capital in Pakistan, this is easier said than done in a low developed, low income country, so how can Pakistan develop its human capital ? 2020-2025 5 year plan and then 2025-30 ? USSR within 10 years 1930-1940 had the biggest industrialization of any country. We have a similar population to them. Within 10-15 years USSR went from low industrialized country to more industrial capability and Capacity than even Britain and Germany .... STALINS 5 year plans saved the soviet union in hindsight we can say this.
 
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The solution is to develop human capital in Pakistan, this is easier said than done in a low developed, low income country, so how can Pakistan develop its human capital ? 2020-2025 5 year plan and then 2025-30 ? USSR within 10 years 1930-1940 had the biggest industrialization of any country. We have a similar population to them.
We don’t have nearly the same resolve to achieve national targets like that. We have raised generation upon generation wanting to work for the Gov for the simple reason to have a sustainable life. Instead of promoting private enterprise and taxing that. We are a nation of rent seeking businesses which cannot compete in the world. And people at helm who are so out of touch with how the real world operates that we continue to make mistakes like above. If CPEC wasn’t thrown our way, I doubt we’d have the slightest idea on how to bring about this change. But the fact that private business can still use a sitting Army chief to escape taxes, makes me laugh and not to expect much to change in our land.

It’s our folks at helm, establishment and politicians which need to decide if they want to keep Pakistan a dinosaur in the modern era or get the work going on bringing us at par with the modern world.
 
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Still more hard working than worthless Saudi slackers. Thousands of hard working people working in Saudi testament to that.
Doesn’t show any results - with the level of bragging we should have been a first world country but frankly can’t compete with our former eastern bloc in basic imports and literacy.

Unless this false sense of superiority comes off and a realistic view of how much cultural and ethical change is required within the common Pakistani to even get to a level where we can merit such bragging; we are going to be the same fifth years from now.
 
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It's facts, KSA needs us to operate their own military equipment, they don't make anything substantial apart from oil.
No they don’t - what is your proof to that?
Who is doing their training now? Who heads their military and strategy process?
 
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This false arrogance is the true downfall of many Pakistanis - thinking you are some god’s gift to earth while being essentially worthless slackers
I think this is a resultant pride to the original “Hum Proud Pakistani hain”, People misinterpret their selves to being some extraordinary superior race while actually these same people when go out to other countries, Find themselves extremely lacking in many many things including manners, Standard, Etiquettes and Knwoledge especially rationality.
 
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We don’t have nearly the same resolve to achieve national targets like that. We have raised generation upon generation wanting to work for the Gov for the simple reason to have a sustainable life. Instead of promoting private enterprise and taxing that. We are a nation of rent seeking businesses which cannot compete in the world. And people at helm who are so out of touch with how the real world operates that we continue to make mistakes like above. If CPEC wasn’t thrown our way, I doubt we’d have the slightest idea on how to bring about this change. But the fact that private business can still use a sitting Army chief to escape taxes, makes me laugh and not to expect much to change in our land.

It’s our folks at helm, establishment and politicians which need to decide if they want to keep Pakistan a dinosaur in the modern era or get the work going on bringing us at par with the modern world.
Perhaps the SOVIET example was too much how about Iran, this is the most sanctioned state was able to focus on education, today their literacy is over 90%...But the speed in which Soviet union industrialized remains mind blowing and beyond amazing, see the GOELRO project made possible the industrialization in the Soviet Union: electricity generation in 1932 compared with 1913 increased almost 7 times, from 2 to 13.5 billion kWh. For example Pakistans electricity production capacity today 37GW x 7 = 259GW by 2039 equivalent .
 
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