"Hard talk with Pakistan does not work, they just dig in deeper", observe American analysts. NYT

[VCheng]

See Alien Tort Statute.

How does that apply to our present discussion? Please clarify.

 

[Solomon2]

How does that apply to our present discussion? Please clarify.

You have no grounds for claims against the gov't of Pakistan? Then it doesn't apply.

 

[VCheng]

You have no grounds for claims against the gov't of Pakistan? Then it doesn't apply.

How could such a claim affect policies of either country in pursuit of respective national interests?

 

[Path-Finder]

The difficulty is that the two countries are pursuing different endgames: the U.S. wants a an independent and prosperous Afghanistan existing under rule-of-law while Pakistan seeks a satellite Afghanistan under the sway of its own pet Talibs; Pakistan remains wedded to the strategy that incubated 9/11.

Thus Pakistan opposes any reconciliation with the Taliban that leads to peace in a Afghanistan absent of Pakistani political domination. As if economic influence wasn't enough! Really, this looks like the product of a military mindset unobstructed by political moderation: dominate or be dominated, etc. Afghanistan's problems are rooted in Pakistan's issues, so the emphasis should be there. Probably the only weak lever the U.S. exercises is to cut off the flow of U.S. "aid" but it seems that Pakistan is both the arsonist and firefighter so the U.S. has been afraid to take that step.

So far.

out of all of that jargon it caught my eye "the U.S. wants a an independent and prosperous Afghanistan existing under rule-of-law while Pakistan seeks a satellite Afghanistan under the sway of its own pet Talibs; Pakistan remains wedded to the strategy that incubated 9/11."

How is the prosperity of Iraq doing at present? There must be law and order in the fragmented nation. A true representation of how US does nation building. WMD's were found? Former CIA installed puppet Saddam was removed.

From this very prosperity ISIS rose and cannibalised Syria next door. I heard ISIS were dropped on Tora Bora via helicopters, The whisper in the wind said it! maybe in a few years we will know it for sure.

It's all happy days for Iraq and Afghanistan is edging towards these happy hours.

 

[Mrc]

But Pakistan is neither a democracy nor even what the newspaper Dawn considers a civilized country

When we consider the epitome of civilizations where recently a woman was r aped on a busy road foot path in peak hours of the day, while by Standers were making movies..... we shud remain uncivilized

 

[Path-Finder]

This article seems to be smokescreen. In reality, USA's troop had no effect in Afghanistan to decrease the terrorism. If anything, the terrorism has increased in the presence of USA army while Terrorist-outfit-aka-TTP has been caught roaming openly in Afghanistan as the guaranteed for safe haven by Afghan governments and intels whereas the very same TTP is responsible for more than 100,000 deaths including children and women in Pakistan.

USA has been known to sponsor the terrorism given their closet collaboration with Al-CIA-DA, ISIS and now TTP because of their collaboration with India. Hence USA is targeting on Afghan-Taliban which USA collaborated with in late 80s to resist USSR whereas USA is lenient towards TTP that is openly committing terrorism that has claimed the lives of more than 100,000 death including children and women.

USA has been upset at Pakistan/Russia lately because both Pakistan and Russia have been successful at eradicating terrorism of TTP/ISIS lately, and that is not the result USA was been hoping for. Because of USA betrayal towards Pakistan in regards to USA sponsoring terrorism through TTP to damage Pakistan and CPEC, Pakistan's alliance is now shifted with China and Russia. Also, going by the prophecy as mentioned 1400 years ago. Pakistan-Russia is here to stay.

Because of USA's arrogance has sealed its own fate by alienating Pakistan. Without Pakistan, USA is screwed in Afghanistan given its exit strategy depends on Pakistan whereas its so-called ally aka India has failed to destabilize Pakistan completely.

Despite USA so-called paragon of peace but in reality, USA has been purposely promoting anti-peace throughout the history such as ISIS/TTP to sponsor terrorism in order to destabilize Middle East, Afghanistan and Pakistan.

And Pakistan has every right to defend itself to eradicate terrorism even if it is USA-foreign-funded elements. USA doesn't like it that Pakistan responds back, and this time stronger than before whereas USA's position is now vulnerable more than ever.

You and I share certain diagreements but very well written.

 

[Verve]

U.S. wants a an independent and prosperous Afghanistan existing under rule-of-law

Just like Iraq eh?

What about USA supporting Iran backed militia supporting Iraqi army to fight ISIS?

USA supports militants where they serve the purpose.

USA doesn't want peace and we know it all too well. USA is the biggest firestarter in the world, history is witness to that fact.

Pakistan will do what is best for our national interest. If that doesn't match with the interests of USA, then USA will be told to **** off, one way or another.

 

[mingle]

The difficulty is that the two countries are pursuing different endgames: the U.S. wants a an independent and prosperous Afghanistan existing under rule-of-law while Pakistan seeks a satellite Afghanistan under the sway of its own pet Talibs; Pakistan remains wedded to the strategy that incubated 9/11.

Thus Pakistan opposes any reconciliation with the Taliban that leads to peace in a Afghanistan absent of Pakistani political domination. As if economic influence wasn't enough! Really, this looks like the product of a military mindset unobstructed by political moderation: dominate or be dominated, etc. Afghanistan's problems are rooted in Pakistan's issues, so the emphasis should be there. Probably the only weak lever the U.S. exercises is to cut off the flow of U.S. "aid" but it seems that Pakistan is both the arsonist and firefighter so the U.S. has been afraid to take that step.

So far.

You lost it go home now 16 yrs r enough to win trust me u can't win next 16 yrs will keep loosing territory already lost half of Astan .Best option is Henry kissenger phrase peace with honour means find a way out with face saving .

 

[ziaulislam]

as pointed out by K. Asif if USA wanted peace it would have without any doubt ended the reasons for conflict...DRUGS...

1. why is Afghanistan producing 95% of world opium..there is simply no excuse for this, i mean no matter what you tell me its is not going to make sense..opium kills more Americans than all terrorists attacks combined x10 times

even your people knows it
army is seen walking in opoid fields..i mean there is no shame..

2. why has USA not worked on boader management, i mean pakistan is fencing it but USA is doing nothing, again no amount of stupid answers is going to change the fact, "USA has done nothing in boarder management"

3. Why has USA not trained the afghan army after so many years, why hasnt it formed a unity govt yet, why hasnt USA done any grund work to built up afghan economy, where has 120 billion dollars gone while Afghanistan doesnt even has a single Hemodiaylsis center and even now come to peshawar for treatments..

4. USA should make up it mind, does it want to talk or fight taliban?

USA knows deep down Pakistan will not change its SPOTS

They will support Taliban And maintain proxies to trouble India

I think its up to USA to simply drop Pakistan AND move 100% into Indian Camp

I think this process has begun

yeah like india has been doing since last 50 years starting from 1971..i still remember india proxies(the northern alliance) bombing Peshawar and school buses in 1990s without any reason

india has no shame..

 

[TheBlackCoat]

USA knows deep down Pakistan will not change its SPOTS

They will support Taliban And maintain proxies to trouble India

I think its up to USA to simply drop Pakistan AND move 100% into Indian Camp

I think this process has begun

My country's relationship with Pakistan and China are more important than with India.

 

[T-123456]

the U.S. wants a an independent and prosperous Afghanistan

Yes,independent and prosperous.
You should name same countries where it wants to or did bring independence and prosperity to strengthen your point of view.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Red: What rule of law has Afghanistan seen in the past 16 years under US direct supervision/dictate/oversight?

What rule of law has anyone seen in Iraq, there is no Pakistan bordering Iraq? or Syria? or Libya?


Afghanistan under US control is worse than it was under Taliban control. There is much more corruption now than ever before, much more drug manufacturing and smuggling than ever before and much more crime than ever before and this is as per many western and American sources.

Blue: That is exactly what US is trying to do, to install inept and corrupt but loyal to US criminals allowing greater access to India who is directly involved in terrorism in Pakistan in the hopes that they can play US game of check mating China.

We are saying it now and we have been saying it for decades, US will never win this war in Afghanistan, not against Afghans and especially never by pissing Pakistan off. US is playing a lost game. You people are arrogant and stupid, and acting like a dumb hammer who sees all problems as nails. Your military might is digging a deeper hole for you, not pulling you out where you have already dug yourselves in.

The difficulty is that the two countries are pursuing different endgames: the U.S. wants a an independent and prosperous Afghanistan existing under rule-of-law while Pakistan seeks a satellite Afghanistan under the sway of its own pet Talibs; Pakistan remains wedded to the strategy that incubated 9/11.

Thus Pakistan opposes any reconciliation with the Taliban that leads to peace in a Afghanistan absent of Pakistani political domination. As if economic influence wasn't enough! Really, this looks like the product of a military mindset unobstructed by political moderation: dominate or be dominated, etc. Afghanistan's problems are rooted in Pakistan's issues, so the emphasis should be there. Probably the only weak lever the U.S. exercises is to cut off the flow of U.S. "aid" but it seems that Pakistan is both the arsonist and firefighter so the U.S. has been afraid to take that step.

So far.

 

[Mrc]

as pointed out by K. Asif if USA wanted peace it would have without any doubt ended the reasons for conflict...DRUGS...

1. why is Afghanistan producing 95% of world opium..there is simply no excuse for this, i mean no matter what you tell me its is not going to make sense..opium kills more Americans than all terrorists attacks combined x10 times

even your people knows it
army is seen walking in opoid fields..i mean there is no shame..

2. why has USA not worked on boader management, i mean pakistan is fencing it but USA is doing nothing, again no amount of stupid answers is going to change the fact, "USA has done nothing in boarder management"

3. Why has USA not trained the afghan army after so many years, why hasnt it formed a unity govt yet, why hasnt USA done any grund work to built up afghan economy, where has 120 billion dollars gone while Afghanistan doesnt even has a single Hemodiaylsis center and even now come to peshawar for treatments..

4. USA should make up it mind, does it want to talk or fight taliban?


yeah like india has been doing since last 50 years starting from 1971..i still remember india proxies(the northern alliance) bombing Peshawar and school buses in 1990s without any reason

india has no shame..

USA wants to keep playing dirty games...

Too kill a monster... some times u need a monster...

To check Pakistan and Taliban... they are bringing ISIS

 

[airmarshal]

The difficulty is that the two countries are pursuing different endgames: the U.S. wants a an independent and prosperous Afghanistan

This is not true at all in fact its a lie. A lie like the one told in Iraq.

Sixteen years is a long time to achieve the goal of a prosperous Afghanistan. Even if Afghanistan was not fully stabilized by now, the steps taken towards that stated intention would have shown way forward.

America is least bothered with stability. Its interested in status quo. Its the status quo that gives it a reason to stay in strategic location like Afghanistan. All of a sudden a country across Atlantic is neighbor to China and Russia.

 

[Rajput_Pakistani]

The corner stone of any military operation is "supplies" and "reinforcements"
If American military commanders are convinced (meaning 100% deep down in their hearts and minds) that Afghan talibans operates from bases in Pakistan. They got their supplies from across border and the leadership is based in Pakistan then...
any military commander (a common one not the likes of Rommel or Montgomery) would put in entire effort to seal the supply lines of enemy.
Could someone please answer me, why US and NATO+Afhan Army are not closing the border on their sides?
Look at the might of USA and its salient features
1. Money (no problem, already spent >trillion dollers)
2. Political (no issue at all, diplomatically both inside and outside)
3. Media (they own)
4. Space surveillance (they are the leaders)
5. Drone+air surveillance (its the best on planet)
6. Fire power (A platoon commander call can bring in B-2s and Raptor)

Vs.
Afghan taliban (I dont think one need to discuss their military capabilities w.r.t. US led coalition)

US could easily cut off their supplies, start finishing off one by one district wise.

The focus should be on American military strategies. There are damn hard question American military commanders need to answer.
Either they should accept their failure or tell the World the real source of problem.
If we dig down, it just look like America want to target Pakistan. They just want to shift the war inside Pakistan.
We should, we must resist it at any cost