Happy thanksgiving day? You mean happy genocide day? Some Reality check by me

[ozzy22]

What do you want me to explain?

If the majority of the deaths in North America were down to diseases then why does South America still have large part of its native population?

 

[VCheng]

Thanskgiving is over. Now please let us all move on to Cyber Monday, or "Imperial Domination of World's Poor Day", whichever one you believe.

Let me hit up some smokin' deals in the meantime.

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

If the majority of the deaths in North America were down to diseases then why does South America still have large part of its native population?

I'm not prepared to split hairs over percentages that still exist. South American was also subjected to the Columbian Exchange of diseases, and populations were annihilated. What you see as "native populations" of South America today are really hybrid descendents of natives, Europeans, Arabs, and Africans:

Perhaps some indigenous tribes were spared because the jungle environment of South America meant that contact with such tribes could be delayed until the diseases were brought under control, but on the whole, they were not spared where contact was made.

The reason why South Americans don't give themselves the lash over the same genocide for which they hold today's Americans responsible is that the Third World has exempted itself from any blame. The First World is always evil, and the Third World is always an innocent victim, remember? South America is so conditioned to accept this "truth," that it will overlook any number of obvious and bizarre contradictions to that "truth," such as how its population came to look the way it looks, or why there is such an extreme disparity between the rich and the poor in Latin America. It's the same mentality that allowed Brazil's Lula, who is married to a blue-eyed blonde, to rail against "white people with blue eyes" for causing the financial crisis. Of course, since he's South American, it's impossible for him to be racist.

Please, leave it alone. If you delve too deeply, you might learn about the deep hypocrisy and moral degradation of South America that resulted from its own involvement in the slave trade and enforcement of class systems. Who would you blame for all of your problems then?

 

[SipahSalar]

A large number of natives were killed by disease, but an even larger number was killed by european fanatics for being "heathens".

 

[ozzy22]

I'm not prepared to split hairs over percentages that still exist. South American was also subjected to the Columbian Exchange of diseases, and populations were annihilated. What you see as "native populations" of South America today are really hybrid descendents of natives, Europeans, Arabs, and Africans:

View attachment 158894

Perhaps some indigenous tribes were spared because the jungle environment of South America meant that contact with such tribes could be delayed until the diseases were brought under control, but on the whole, they were not spared where contact was made.

The reason why South Americans don't give themselves the lash over the same genocide for which they hold today's Americans responsible is that the Third World has exempted itself from any blame. The First World is always evil, and the Third World is always an innocent victim, remember? South America is so conditioned to accept this "truth," that it will overlook any number of obvious and bizarre contradictions to that "truth," such as how its population came to look the way it looks, or why there is such an extreme disparity between the rich and the poor in Latin America. It's the same mentality that allowed Brazil's Lula, who is married to a blue-eyed blonde, to rail against "white people with blue eyes" for causing the financial crisis. Of course, since he's South American, it's impossible for him to be racist.

Please, leave it alone. If you delve too deeply, you might learn about the deep hypocrisy and moral degradation of South America that resulted from its own involvement in the slave trade and enforcement of class systems. Who would you blame for all of your problems then?

Maybe it’s best to be honest with yourself and admit a horrible thing happened rather blame it on diseases.

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

Maybe it’s best to be honest with yourself and admit a horrible thing happened rather blame it on diseases.

A horrible thing happened that I had nothing to do with, so any attempts to pin it on me, or on any modern-day American, for that matter, is futile. Any guilt I have, as the descendant of immigrants who came to the US long after the event, is shared by you, an immigrant/the descendant of immigrants to South America, which suffered from the same event. Happy?

 

[SipahSalar]

A horrible thing happened that I had nothing to do with, so any attempts to pin it on me, or on any modern-day American, for that matter, is futile.

Its true that whatever happened is not your fault and cannot be blamed on you. But the least you guys could do is own up to it.

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

Its true that whatever happened is not your fault and cannot be blamed on you. But the least you guys could do is own up to it.

That's the problem. Who is "you guys"? As I posted in this thread previously, this "genocide" happened before the modern-day US was formed; it happened even before the progenitors of the colonies of the modern day US were formed. And lamenting the death of millions by disease is not the same as the Third World attempt to conflate this with a biological weapons attack. There was nothing intentional about this "genocide." It was simply a tragedy, one that is taught in American schools. It's unclear what more we should do, or why.

As far as battles between the colonists and the surviving indigenous population, you would be hard-pressed to find an American today who thought that the abominations committed in those times were admirable, or would be acceptable today. But perhaps you're not aware that the indigenous population was not a uniform bloc, and also fought between each other, and committed their own atrocities against each other and the colonists. But in any case, the atrocities committed by the colonists is also taught in American schools.

Even if you wanted to blame the US for some reason, unlike Germany, which has largely German descendants, or Japan, which has largely Japanese descendants, the population dynamics of the US changes with every generation, thanks to immigration. Unless you want to blame the microscopic population of the US that is the descendants of the original colonists, there is no justification in holding the modern day American responsible for what happened 400+ years ago.

 

[SipahSalar]

Even if you wanted to blame the US for some reason, unlike Germany, which has largely German descendants, or Japan, which has largely Japanese descendants, the population dynamics of the US changes with every generation, thanks to immigration. Unless you want to blame the microscopic population of the US that is the descendants of the original colonists, there is no justification in holding the modern day American responsible for what happened 400+ years ago.

Majority of Americans are still Caucasians, that is european descent. But that is besides the point, I am not saying they are to be "blamed". What I am saying is Americans of this generation (regardless of race) have not done enough to give the natives more rights.

As for conflating it with a biological weapon, there do appear to be some points that hint at small pox's intentional use as a biological weapon. And its not just the Third World that speaks about the rights of the Natives. I dont know why you brought that up.

 

[JSCh]

The middle east is not Caucasian, nor is India, Indonesia, even Africa. Papua New Guinea is not, but Australia is. So is America. The reason why? The natives of these particular places are too weak and too few to resist systematic White/Colonial invasion and genocide.

After the smallpox, the native are too weak to resist and defend their homeland.

The world is not a safe place.

Stay strong.

 

[gambit]

Majority of Americans are still Caucasians, that is european descent. But that is besides the point, I am not saying they are to be "blamed". What I am saying is Americans of this generation (regardless of race) have not done enough to give the natives more rights.

As for conflating it with a biological weapon, there do appear to be some points that hint at small pox's intentional use as a biological weapon. And its not just the Third World that speaks about the rights of the Natives. I dont know why you brought that up.

And you are wrong about that. The Amerind tribes in the US have more autonomy and rights than the Christians have in your Pakistan. The tribes on their lands have freedoms and rights not accorded to non-tribal US citizens.

 

[SipahSalar]

The tribes on their lands have freedoms and rights not accorded to non-tribal US citizens.

I dont see it as freedom. More like segregation rather than integration. Sure a small minority of them build casinos and make loads of money but most of them have to face medieval tribal customs and laws. Its like US has said to them "we dont care about you, do what you want in your own tiny corner"

 

[Solomon2]

If anything, Thanksgiving recalls a time when relations between the colonists and Americans were good: an example of the profit from brotherhood between peoples. Nobody celebrates Thanksgiving as "genocide day".

 

[gambit]

I dont see it as freedom. More like segregation rather than integration. Sure a small minority of them build casinos and make loads of money but most of them have to face medieval tribal customs and laws. Its like US has said to them "we dont care about you, do what you want in your own tiny corner"

But...But...But...I thought you said we need to give them more freedoms.

No one --- NO ONE -- forces any American Indian to stay in his/her little tribal corner. Voluntary segregation is beyond the government's and the average citizen's control.