HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions

[Dash]

And we can surely expect these figures to up with more fuel efficient F-414 in the next batch!

Thats a positive statement!

and I will go further and say that, even if you dont get more fuel effecient EPE version of GE-F414, it still be better than what it is now. Mostly 500 Kms...

 

[SpArK]

Thats a positive statement!

and I will go further and say that, even if you dont get more fuel effecient EPE version of GE-F414, it still be better than what it is now. Mostly 500 Kms...

Anyway the next batch surely find some more structural changes and these are specific for south operations only as evident with the deployement in sulur.. so expect some changes in fuel capacity too..

 

[MAFIAN GOD]

Exactly how much combat radius will be increased by F-414 engine that we will get for MK-2?

 

[kish]

And we can surely expect these figures to up with more fuel efficient F-414 in the next batch!

still 300 km for point defense is enough range
with awaks support 300 km can utilize effectively


whenever it will have
in-flight refueling
new engine
modified structure

its range will more and it will be more potent

 

[sancho]

Guys, are there any sources that really says 300Km combat range in ... role, or with ... load?

When you compare it with a comparable fighters like the Gripen C/D, or JF 17, I am very suspicious of what range HAL is really talking about on their specs boards:

LCA MK1 / Gripen C (single seat) / JF 17

Thrust: ? dry, 85kN AB / 54kN dry, 80kN AB / 49kN dry, 84kN AB
Empty weight: 6.5t / 6.6t / 6.4
Internal fuel: 2.4t / 2.2t / 2.3t
External fuel: 2.8t / 2.6t / 2.4t
Payload: 4t / 5.3t / 3.7t
MTOW: 13.5t /14t / 12.4t
Combat range: 300Km / 800km at max load / (operational radius) 1,352 km
Ferry range: 2000Km / 3000km with external tanks / 2037Km

http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.p...-light-fighter&catid=79:fact-files&Itemid=159

Pakistan Aeronautical Complex....
Pakistan Aeronautical Complex....


The Gripen is slightly heavier, carries less internal and external fuel, but a higher load and still can go more than twice the combat range than the LCA?
The RM12 engine is based on the same GE 404 and there is no way that it could save that much fuel compared to the GE engine, so how should this be possible?
JF 17s operational range is obviously not with full load, especially because it carries the least ammount of fuel.

That's why I have some doubts on the LCA specs so far, most of them varies and were not based on the final version, also don't exactly mention on what load this range is based on.

LCA MK2 will not only have a better engine, but will get bigger wings for more internal fuel as well and that should be the bigger factor for more range.

 

[angeldemon_007]

Guys, are there any sources that really says 300Km combat range in ... role, or with ... load?

I think we could not even trust HAL, because they might tell more than what the product actually do since they are facing alot of heat from almost every possible areas. This might be the reason that sometimes LCA is called 4.5+ gen, sometimes 4 gen and sometimes 3.5 gen. I am confused to which gen it belongs. It is also said that it is that LCA is the best in its category, I have just one question and that category is ??/ They compare it with Gripen to some extent but i don't think its true.

 

[Asfand]

To all Indians
LCA is doomed to fail as Indian Generals and politicians make more kickbacks in importing foreign armaments than making one at home. Arjun Tank is one fine example. Only a couple of then has ever built and production stopped as Indian army does not want it for reasons listed above (more kickbacks).

 

[kish]

To all Indians
LCA is doomed to fail as Indian Generals and politicians make more kickbacks in importing foreign armaments than making one at home. Arjun Tank is one fine example. Only a couple of then has ever built and production stopped as Indian army does not want it for reasons listed above (more kickbacks).

u showed ur level of knowledge ..

and u show ur hater feeling ...

keep bashing it wont affect anything,,
but better for u to come with technical point and reliable source ,,

 

[Indianflanker]

I also think Asfand is bit right.. All top brass of Army & Airforce are going for kick backs... Arjun Saga is sameful chapter for Army... Those Officer who evaluated it against T90 has full of praise for it.. but top brass is refusing becoz they aren't getting any kikbacks... shame on them... they must learn from Navy which has ,.supported Indigenous shipbuilding from begning & now Indian Shipbulging has come to an Age & they are world class now....
Moral is that Airforce should also support the LCA from now on... It will not take much time to fine tune it to become best Lightweight fighter in the world... Subsequently It will also help in developing new technologies for newer AMCA...

 

[IND151]

i guess lca mk2 will have more hard points,bigger wing area and improved radar.




LCA tejas

LCA tejas

 

[IND151]

Livefist - Indian Defence & Aerospace: LCA Tejas To Lose "LCA" Tag In February 2011

 

[angeldemon_007]

To all Indians
LCA is doomed to fail as Indian Generals and politicians make more kickbacks in importing foreign armaments than making one at home. Arjun Tank is one fine example. Only a couple of then has ever built and production stopped as Indian army does not want it for reasons listed above (more kickbacks).

No, this is not the reason. The problem with the earlier projects were, when HAL or DRDO was asked to make these projects at that time these projects were up to date, but both the projects got a complete decade delay. Now when these projects are completed, they are outdated...
Now the things are changing and hopefully now we could see the best products...

 

[Dash]

Guys, are there any sources that really says 300Km combat range in ... role, or with ... load?

When you compare it with a comparable fighters like the Gripen C/D, or JF 17, I am very suspicious of what range HAL is really talking about on their specs boards:

LCA MK1 / Gripen C (single seat) / JF 17

Thrust: ? dry, 85kN AB / 54kN dry, 80kN AB / 49kN dry, 84kN AB
Empty weight: 6.5t / 6.6t / 6.4
Internal fuel: 2.4t / 2.2t / 2.3t
External fuel: 2.8t / 2.6t / 2.4t
Payload: 4t / 5.3t / 3.7t
MTOW: 13.5t /14t / 12.4t
Combat range: 300Km / 800km at max load / (operational radius) 1,352 km
Ferry range: 2000Km / 3000km with external tanks / 2037Km
.

According to ADA These are the Engine specs for GE-F404 F2J3.

link - Organisation

Dry Thrust : 55.5 kN
Reheat Thrust : 83.3 kN
Combat Thrust : 87.2 kN

If you compare that with Gripen its almost same, no difference.
I guess the 300 Km they are talking about is with full payload.

However we can do a bit analysis to find out as to why its a 300 Kms, can we?

 

[Capt.Popeye]

According to ADA These are the Engine specs for GE-F404 F2J3.

link - Organisation

Dry Thrust : 55.5 kN
Reheat Thrust : 83.3 kN
Combat Thrust : 87.2 kN

If you compare that with Gripen its almost same, no difference.
I guess the 300 Km they are talking about is with full payload.

However we can do a bit analysis to find out as to why its a 300 Kms, can we?

Combat Radius depends on the ordnance load, after that (importantly) it depends on mission configuration.
E.G. Lo-Lo-Lo, Lo-Hi-Lo, Hi-Hi-Lo, Hi-Lo-Hi. and so on, that is what really controls combat radius. Now throw in a safety reserve. If the aircraft is unable to return to its home base and needs to divert, or is unable to land on first pass; things like that.
There were numerous instances of this in past conflicts, in India and abroad. In the Viet Nam war for instance aircraft faced similar situations. That led to the creation of buddy refuelling (as distinct from AAR) where a similar aircraft pumped some fuel to the affected aircraft to increase its endurance to divert or whatever.

AAR and Buddy Refuelling are factors that can change an aircraft's combat radius substantially.

 

[Dash]

AAR and Buddy Refuelling are factors that can change an aircraft's combat radius substantially.

I am not talking about the buddy refueling or even external fuel tank. The point here is LCAs engine being similar to Gripen has half of its cmbat radius. which is surprising....added to it it also has lesser payload than Gripen.