HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions-[Thread 2]

[MirageBlue]

SO Mk1A has uttam or 2052 ? I assume its 2052.

Elta 2052 AESA for at least the first 20 fighters. After that it depends on whether the Uttam AESA is certified and ready with ToT done to HAL. A MoU was signed between HAL and DRDO for ToT on Uttam AESA so they can assemble the radar, just as there is a contract for HAL to assemble the Elta 2052 under license from IAI.
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[Andhadhun]

Tejas Production Floor,

 

[dr.knowhow]

Talking about avionics, I would like to ask why the Uttam radars are manufactured by HAL. This is very rare even for a developing country. In most of the cases, there always exist a separate company from the system integration manufacturer, in India's case HAL, who only manufactures specific components like avionics.

For example, that's Aselsan in Turkey's case. For Europe it's usually companies like Thales or BAE, for US it's Raytheon, BAE or avionics division of NG or LM that are strictly separate from the aeronautics division.

It's not like India doesn't have such company. AFAIK a lot of military electronics are developed and manufactured by BEL. Why aren't they in charge of Uttam as well?

 

[KapitaanAli]

Talking about avionics, I would like to ask why the Uttam radars are manufactured by HAL. This is very rare even for a developing country. In most of the cases, there always exist a separate company from the system integration manufacturer, in India's case HAL, who only manufactures specific components like avionics.

For example, that's Aselsan in Turkey's case. For Europe it's usually companies like Thales or BAE, for US it's Raytheon, BAE or avionics division of NG or LM that are strictly separate from the aeronautics division.

It's not like India doesn't have such company. AFAIK a lot of military electronics are developed and manufactured by BEL. Why aren't they in charge of Uttam as well?

In fact BEL currently manufactures modules for Rafale's AESA. I don't think this is controversial though. HAL Avionics will manufacture ELTA 2052 as well, before UTTAM.

Streamlining isn't an Indian thing. But things will come into place in due time.

 

[dr.knowhow]

In fact BEL currently manufactures modules for Rafale's AESA. I don't think this is controversial though. HAL Avionics will manufacture ELTA 2052 as well, before UTTAM.

Streamlining isn't an Indian thing. But things will come into place in due time.

Yeah, I've seen this diagram :

so it should mean that the Indian authorities have felt the necessity to keep HAL only to do what other western aircraft manufacturers do, which is airframe manufacturing and system integration.

Ideally they could carry out a corporate spin off for avionics division of HAL and make it a subsidiary, just like how NG aeronautic systems is separate from NG mission systems. Also just like what you've suggested, they could streamline the structure in the process by merging two separate avionics division, each in Hyderabad and Korwa, into one for better management structure.

Well I'm not the one who decides, let alone I'm not an Indian but those are the things which comes into my mind to promote more efficiency.

 

[Mrc]

Tejas Production Floor,

Why is there a fully painted jet on production floor?

 

[KapitaanAli]

Why is there a fully painted jet on production floor?

The one in picture is SP19 which flew last month fully painted. Just silly logistical/final touch up matters before first flight or handing over.

 

[MirageBlue]

Why is there a fully painted jet on production floor?

Because even after being rolled out of the production hangar, painted and flown, they can be sent back there for any fixes, maintenance etc. till the 2 Customer Acceptance Flights are completed and the IAF accepts them.

 

[MirageBlue]

Uttam AESA radar to replace the Elta 2052 from 21st Tejas Mk1A onwards. Only 20 Elta 2052 AESA radars will be ordered and then onwards they will switch to the Uttam AESA.

DRDO says that the Uttam AESA radar has performed even better than was anticipated. It will only improve on the Tejas Mk2 and will definitely now be the front-runner for the Super-30 upgrade.

Also, it's confirmed from LRDE Director that Terrain Avoidance mode to be included for the Uttam AESA. This will allow very low level navigation flights like those that Rafale can carry out in pitch darkness, with the RBE2 AESA.

2 LCAs (LSP-2 and LSP-3) are currently being used for conducting trials of the Uttam.


Self reliance- 1 in 2 Tejas fighters to have indigenous AESA radars

BENGALURU: In a major boost to indigenous defence technologies, at least 51% of the 123 LCA Tejas fighters that will be inducted into the Indian Air Force (IAF) will have the desi Uttam radar, replacing Israeli radars that the first batch of aircraft will be equipped with.

In all, IAF will get 123 Tejas fighters: 40 in initial and final operational clearance (IOC and FOC) configurations and 83 Tejas Mk1A, orders for which were placed in the first week of February. While the first 40 will have mechanical radars (all Israeli), 83 Mk-1A planes will have Active electronically scanned array (AESA) radars ..

“We will have the Uttam radar from the 21st Tejas Mk-1A to be produced. Uttam has performed better than anticipated in the trials so far. We’ve already signed an MoU with HAL,” DRDO
chairman Sateesh Reddy told TOI.

This means 63 of the 83 will be indigenous Uttam radars developed by LRDE (Electronics and Radar Development Establishment), a DRDO lab in Bengaluru. The TOI had reported in 2019 that Uttam radars were likely to replace the AESA radars — the EL/M 2052

R Madhavan, CMD, HAL, which is producing Tejas, said: “ That is what we are panning for. Given the delivery timelines we’ve committed to, we will place orders for 20 Israeli radars and Uttam should be ready thereafter. We are targetting to increase indigenous content in Tejas to 62% to 65%, and this will help achieving that.”

Uttam is a state-of-the-art AESA radar that can track multiple targets and take hi-resolution pictures to aid in reconnaissance. Seshagiri P, project director, Uttam, said it’s being tested on two LCAs — LSP2 and LSP3 — and one executive jet. Together they’ve completed around 230 hours of flying, including 30 on LCAs.

“On the LCAs, testing is for air-to-air mode at present. The range of the radar should be almost commensurate to launch a BVR (beyond visual range) weapon; it’s specified to be so. But we’re getting a range that’s better than that. We are a couple of sorties away from starting a joint evaluation. After this, it will be ready for user evaluation,” Seshagiri told TOI.

On the executive jet, Uttam’s tested three basic modes — air-to-air, air-to-sea and air-to-ground. “...The same needs to be ported on LCA and checked for performance. There’s a fourth mode called navigation terrain avoidance, weather mode (rain bearing clouds),” Seshagiri added.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

Uttam AESA radar to replace the Elta 2052 from 21st Tejas Mk1A onwards. Only 20 Elta 2052 AESA radars will be ordered and then onwards they will switch to the Uttam AESA.

DRDO says that the Uttam AESA radar has performed even better than was anticipated. It will only improve on the Tejas Mk2 and will definitely now be the front-runner for the Super-30 upgrade.

Also, it's confirmed from LRDE Director that Terrain Avoidance mode to be included for the Uttam AESA. This will allow very low level navigation flights like those that Rafale can carry out in pitch darkness, with the RBE2 AESA.

2 LCAs (LSP-2 and LSP-3) are currently being used for conducting trials of the Uttam.

Self reliance- 1 in 2 Tejas fighters to have indigenous AESA radars

What are the range of both Radars?

 

[MirageBlue]

What are the range of both Radars?

Uttam was believed to have a 150 km range against 2 sqm target as per reports nearly 2 years ago. If it has been performing even better than anticipated, it must've improved on this. And that's with 780 T/R modules on the Uttam that is fit on the Tejas LSP-2, 3 and then on Mk1A.

The Tejas Mk2 will get a larger Uttam AESA array with 990 T/R modules, despite the radome being 23 cm smaller than on the Tejas Mk1, to accomodate the IRST. The Tejas Mk2 with the F-414 will have more power available on board to power the radar and the liquid cooling that is required.

Remember, Liquid Cooling improves the performance of an AESA radar significantly over Air cooled ones such as the AESA selected for the JF-17 Blk3. So basically the Elta 2052 and Uttam will both possess far better performance than the Air cooled AESA of the JF-17 Blk 3.

AESA thermal management

In the ’70s, radar systems had low heat flux and could generally be managed by blowing air over the heated surfaces. By the ’90s, heat fluxes had increased enough to where air cooling was oftentimes no longer sufficient, prompting engineers to turn to closed-loop single-phase cooling systems using fluids such as Coolanol and mixtures of Ethylene Glycol and Water (EGW) or Propylene Glycol and Water (PGW).

Although more complex and expensive from a system perspective, single-phase cooling systems have orders of magnitude greater capacity to remove waste heat as compared to air cooling. In aerospace applications, the advantage of liquid cooling over air cooling is amplified because of the decreasing density of air with altitude. For instance, a constant speed cooling fan at a 35,000 foot altitude delivers an air mass flow rate that is approximately 40 percent of the flow rate it can provide at sea level, greatly limiting the cooling capacity of the system.

Today, single-phase liquid cooling is well understood and is already in use on many military platforms including the F-22 and F-35.

 

[MirageBlue]

Interview with Dr Girish Deodhare, Director of ADA. Worth watching for all the information he shares.

Youtube link

He talks about incredibly unstable the Tejas LCA is @ 6:35 mark..This is why the Tejas is so maneuverable. The incredible instability means without FBW, it cannot be controlled.

Time to double - 200 milliseconds

"What that means is if you get a perturbation (movement) of 1 degree, in 200 millseconds, it doubles to 2 degrees. So effectively in 1 second, it can grow from 1 degree to 32 degrees. So this is the kind of instability this aircraft has".

No wonder the Instantaneous Turn Rate and the Roll Rate on the Tejas is simply superb. Will be eye-watering performance for a pilot.

~90% of the wetted area of the Tejas is composites and 45% by weight is also composites, which is most likely the highest of any fighter aircraft in the world.

On the Naval LCA Mk1, this interview tells you why it was so challenging with more than 500 landings and 50 take-offs from the Shore Based Test Facility in Goa..and finally what a success it was! 18 traps on INS Vikramaditya and not a single one did it miss the arresting wire!

His confidence on the Tejas Mk2 MWF is also clear. Basically it is a consolidation of all the technologies that have been perfected on the Tejas Mk1. And he also disclosed that the wind tunnel tests have shown that the FBW can handle the canards that are being added (obviously with changes to the FBW).

On the AMCA, he has a big smile when he says that AMCA prototype fabrication has already started and 4 parts of the AMCA prototype have already been built. 2024 rollout of the first prototype is pretty much confirmed. 2031 is the expected start of production for induction.

And he says at the end, that all the pilots that have flown the Tejas, including Indian and foreign, have all said that it's handling qualities and it's Human Machine Interface (HMI) is one of the best.

I've always said don't fall for the negative planted articles in the press. The Tejas LCA program is the bedrock, the very foundation of the rise of the Indian aerospace industry.

 

[MirageBlue]

Tejas Mk1 in Sri Lanka, for participating in the SLAF's 70th anniversary celebrations with an aerobatics display.

 

[KapitaanAli]

LCA display in Sri Lanka, from 12:00 followed by Sarang ALH display:

 

[KapitaanAli]

LCA Mk1 with B1-B Lancer, better image: