HAL rejects IAF proposal to produce Pilatus trainer aircaft

[Manvantaratruti]

IAF seems totally ignorant of the provisions in the law that clearly states that any Defence purchase of over 300 crores must have at least 50% direct offset in India.

In simple terms IAF cannot buy pilatus off the shelf Not unless they have enough clout to pass in new law in Parliament.

IAF seems to be living in a world of its own, totally disconnect from the realities we live in. A most unprofessional approach.

 

[layman]

Seems like Kickbacks are kicking in for IAF.

 

[Manvantaratruti]

Seems like Kickbacks are kicking in for IAF.

Nothing to do with kickbacks. Plain unprofessional behavior that stems from laziness and arrogance.

 

[Dillinger]

Last time we checked, MoD didnt approve the additional Pilatus procurement(or have they?). If Pilatus is procured more then HTT40 will be history.

The MoD is not known to take anyone's counsel. The current acquisition laws permit reducing the offset percentage to any quantum required on a case by case basis, the MoD must exercise said discretionary power and allow the Pilatus to come through. Failing this the war-fighters will be further hobbled, let us be clear, at the end of the day you cannot force them to operate anything. You can be vindictive and play with the lives of the fighters but by causing all this bad blood one only ends up ensuring that they will further resist any HAL/ADA venture. At the end of the day the nation will be the net loser.

 

[Manindra]

HAL has never produced it self a credible aircraft and showing tantrums like a kid

Improve your history knowledge before commenting on any issue.

How much decade does you want squeeze from HPT-32 Deepak IJT Kiran to qualify as credible aircraft.

 

[[Bregs]]

Improve your history knowledge before commenting on any issue.

How much decade does you want squeeze from HPT-32 Deepak IJT Kiran to qualify as credible aircraft.

i meant to say bro that they are after decades of experience are good only in assembling or if you think trainer aircraft qualify them as a credible fighter producing company then its fine

 

[Manindra]

i meant to say bro that they are after decades of experience are good only in assembling or if you think trainer aircraft qualify them as a credible fighter producing company then its fine

How much country make their own trainers?

IAF awake when service life of HPT-32 Deepak & IJT Kiran fully squeezed & after this they put hard performance scale for HAL & other hand dilute performance standards for imported one & other hand ACM of IAF give wrong service life cost calculation to MOD. Why??????

And main issue, What is the unit cost of Pilatus trainers sold to US & compare them with IAF's trainer unit cost.

Does not this make you feel that serious scam going on this deal.

 

[acetophenol]

HAL is an angry girlfriend with everlasting pregnancies (LCA,IJT,HTT-40)

 

[sancho]

it''s a subtle way of MoD saying no to whoever is on swiss payroll

That would be pretty silly, because MoD could tell it to IAF directly, without creating such a big mess in the media. I doubt MoD is involved in this, but that HAL officials are simply sore losers here.
It's easy to make a bribery claim, but it's difficult to prove that HAL is capable, unless HAL starts focusing on what is important and that is IJT, not HTT40.

HAL is well within its rights to reject an unfavorable business proposition.

That's the problem, HAL should not think about making business. They are a government owned company and their priority should be to provide the forces with whatever is needed to defend the country!
In this case the priority is to have a basic trainer as soon as possible, which HAL can't provide on it's own now, so they have to do it by licence producing a foreign one to support IAF.

Also it's HAL's own fault too! The minute the PC7 was selected as the foreign trainer, they should had changed their plans for HTT40, to get maximum commonality to the PC7. That would have made it easier for IAF with regard to maintenance, logistics and training itself. But they didn't and just looked at their own aircraft and not to what is the best for IAF.

IMO MoD should step in and direct HAL to manuafacture the Pilatus. HAL cant show whim here..

Exactly, Antony already started to be more offensive against our industry and should continue with it. It's time that we see some results and not only new promises and dreams of our government owned companies.

 

[Dash]

The MoD is not known to take anyone's counsel. The current acquisition laws permit reducing the offset percentage to any quantum required on a case by case basis, the MoD must exercise said discretionary power and allow the Pilatus to come through. Failing this the war-fighters will be further hobbled, let us be clear, at the end of the day you cannot force them to operate anything. You can be vindictive and play with the lives of the fighters but by causing all this bad blood one only ends up ensuring that they will further resist any HAL/ADA venture. At the end of the day the nation will be the net loser.

Completely agree, but one. MoD actually doesnt have any issue over IAF choosing any thing for itself. Any deal that IAF has made has been well accepted by MoD. They are the scrutinizers and not the technical validators which they are well aware off!!.

But in the case of Pilatus IAF has actually diluted the figures just for MoD official to smell a rat!. I mean the revised cost related bills which were subsequently submitted to MoD had different figures!. That made them feel a little uncomfortable about IAF's role though there is no question about IAF's intention. Hence the already trapped in scams Congress didnt want to take a risk giving HAL a full chance to bully them...

IAF did make some hasty moves in this deal like they did for A400 MRTT tanker reports without properly evaluating the life cycle cost which was eventually questioned and cancelled by MoF even though it was cleared by MoD!.

Else this deal of procuring more trainers was going to be piece of cake for IAF which has already cleared billions of dollars of deals...

Exactly, Antony already started to be more offensive against our industry and should continue with it. It's time that we see some results and not only new promises and dreams of our government owned companies.

Its high time!!...IMO the Pilatus deal will be eventually cleared because of the mounting pressure on MoD by the IAF to get more trainers. Hope judgment prevails on Antony.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

HAL is a bunch of @$$holes

 

[Dillinger]

Completely agree, but one. MoD actually doesnt have any issue over IAF choosing any thing for itself. Any deal that IAF has made has been well accepted by MoD. They are the scrutinizers and not the technical validators which they are well aware off!!.

But in the case of Pilatus IAF has actually diluted the figures just for MoD official to smell a rat!. I mean the revised cost related bills which were subsequently submitted to MoD had different figures!. That made them feel a little uncomfortable about IAF's role though there is no question about IAF's intention. Hence the already trapped in scams Congress didnt want to take a risk giving HAL a full chance to bully them...

IAF did make some hasty moves in this deal like they did for A400 MRTT tanker reports without properly evaluating the life cycle cost which was eventually questioned and cancelled by MoF even though it was cleared by MoD!.

Else this deal of procuring more trainers was going to be piece of cake for IAF which has already cleared billions of dollars of deals...



Its high time!!...IMO the Pilatus deal will be eventually cleared because of the mounting pressure on MoD by the IAF to get more trainers. Hope judgment prevails on Antony.

True, but that was a product of panic under exigency. They need the Pilatus and they need it bad. They assessed that a proven system in hand merited a downgrade of requirements. On the other hand the same downgrade does not ensure that the HTT-40 will be available anytime soon. We haven't even seen a flying article till now- which means it could take a good 5 years to get it fully running- the Pilatus is available now.

Now this is not to say that the IAF hasn't cockblocked HAL in the past, the long history from the 60s to the 80s is testament to the fact that HAL has been dealt a raw deal often, as @sandy_3126 can well testify. Although the biggest blow to HAL came at the hands of the MoD through ADA. At the moment though we need to see the merits of this particular case, the IJT is suffering from issues, other projects stalled, the IAF is looking for a break and they will not let this deal go down in flames. Now if the MoD decided to exercise its discretion and deal a blow to the IAF then that's another matter.

Sandy's predictions will mostly hold true. But the HTT-40 looks unlikely.

 

[MilSpec]

HAL is a bunch of @$$holes

worse are keyboard warriors who haven't contributed a cent towards their country and have the arrogance to malign the organisation which has taken the brunt of MoD's mismanagement time after time. It's you sir who are the aforementioned adjective... thanks

 

[Dillinger]

worse are keyboard warriors who haven't contributed a cent towards their country and have the arrogance to malign the organisation which has taken the brunt of MoD's mismanagement time after time. It's you sir who are the aforementioned adjective... thanks

One can always point out that a lot of HAL's much maligned "screw driver" work ensures that our platforms have their spares and in-house MRO. Without which a staunch round of sanctions could very well screw us over.

 

[Dash]

True, but that was a product of panic under exigency. They need the Pilatus and they need it bad. They assessed that a proven system in hand merited a downgrade of requirements. On the other hand the same downgrade does not ensure that the HTT-40 will be available anytime soon. We haven't even seen a flying article till now- which means it could take a good 5 years to get it fully running- the Pilatus is available now.

Now this is not to say that the IAF hasn't cockblocked HAL in the past, the long history from the 60s to the 80s is testament to the fact that HAL has been dealt a raw deal often, as @sandy_3126 can well testify. Although the biggest blow to HAL came at the hands of the MoD through ADA. At the moment though we need to see the merits of this particular case, the IJT is suffering from issues, other projects stalled, the IAF is looking for a break and they will not let this deal go down in flames. Now if the MoD decided to exercise its discretion and deal a blow to the IAF then that's another matter.

Sandy's predictions will mostly hold true. But the HTT-40 looks unlikely.

I think IAF is a pretty matured organization to panic under exigency...

The common men dont care if HTT40 will be history , All I am trying to say is that not even one soul is being wise here.