Gun Ownership, Is it justified?

[Officer of Engineers]

I can tear apart everything Moore did, including misrepresentation of the people he interviewed. He's being sued by veterans for taking their comments out of context and inserting them into anti-right wing consiparcy. He's a damned good propagandist but as a documentarian, I find more truth in a comic book.

And I don't read FOX.

I read the Blogs of the people on the ground. And neither of those two are on the ground, especially Moore who can't get his fat butt there.

 

[Sid]

I'm not sure if you have watched the documentary or not. We are not discussing Farenheit 9/11; we're discussing Bowling for Columbine which is no propaganda at all and in which he travels to places where incidents have happened in the US and argues from a factual point of view.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

I am indeed speaking about Bowling for Concubine. The one thing about Moore is that he takes the facts and then spins it. Nothing he states in either film is a lie and is all fact but almost ALL are taken out of context.

Here is the one rebuttal to his film http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

Here is his rebuttal
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko

He does not challenge the fact that he takes different facts from two very different situations to create a singular point of view. He speaks the facts but not the truth.

 

[Averroes]

He speaks the facts but not the truth.

Well there are some right wing nuts who are convinced that they know the truth regardless of facts.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

As compared to the left-wing nut Moore? I don't believe facism anymore than I do communism.

 

[Sid]

Well, you just re-affirmed my stance by providing those two links.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

That is your pre-orgative but know that Bowling for Concubine is openned to challenge by the Americans themselves. Ultimately, it is their decision and their decision is that Moore is wrong and that they're keeping their guns.

 

[Sid]

Sorry I refuse to believe that. The only ones discrediting Moore are the gun-nuts who love their pieces of metal. On the whole, more and more Americans are pushing for tougher gun laws; it will take time to overcome the powerful lobby that the NRA uses to keep the guns afloat.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

Name one one Legislature who's going to challenge the 4th Admendment. As for gun laws, the Americans have more gun laws than any other country on earth ranging for municipal to state to federal. Tougher gun laws ain't going to change anything.

This issue is an American domestic issue and you looking from the outside do not have a clear understanding of the divide. I do not have a clear understanding of the divide.

I can only tell you that the results are the opposite of what you're suggesting. Instead of less guns on the streets, there are more and more legal guns on the streets. The Assualt Rifle Ban which was touted as the major gun control platform has now expired with no champion stepping forward to revive it.

Moore is not the voice here. The NRA is and despite what you may think, they do have majority support.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

Corrections: It is the 2nd Amendment, not the 4th.

From http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/bcft04.htm

Total applications for firearm tranfers or permits increased 3.2% nationwide, from 7,831,000 in 2003 to 8,084,000 in 2004.

From http://www.newsbatch.com/guncontrol.htm

What are the latest developments in the U.S. gun control controversy?

Gun control was not a major issue in the 2004 Presidential campaign. The percentage of Americans who consider "gun control" as an important issue has declined from 3% to 1%. Fewer Americans are supportive of gun control in general and handgun control in particular. While the issue has dropped in overall public concern, it remains what politicians consider a "wedge issue" as many opponents of gun control are passionate about their right to unfettered gun ownership and may make voting decisions on this issue alone. Gun control opponents raise far more money than do gun control advocates. The most immediate controversy concerns whether the current ban on the purchase of assault weapons should expire. In a largely partisan vote, the Senate voted to extend the assault weapon ban in March 2004. The House has not yet voted on the issue. The 2004 Democratic platform affirms the 2nd Amendment right of Americans to own weapons while supporting the extension of the assault weapon ban and closing the "gun show" loophole. The Republican Platform contains a strong affirmation of the right to own guns. The platform supports instant background checks and the timely destruction of gun purchase records.

Yep, Moore is wrong.

 

[TexasJohn]

I have seen Michael Moore's 'Bowling for Columbine' and that documentary (I guess we can call it one) makes a lot of sense. Gun ownership by ordinary civilians, in a country like the US is unjustified.

I couldn't believe it that they were handing out guns for opening a bank account and was equally shocked by the cold heartedness of the NRA leader.

Sid, what was handed out by the bank was plain old 10/22 rifles - 22 caliber rimfire. It is a plinking rifle, squirrel gun, whatever. Something you would buy your kid on his 16th birthday as an upgrade from a pellet gun.

The gun culture is the US is very old and mature. There are not that many gun related postal incidences here as you would think. People and law enforcement take guns very seriously. 90% of the people who have guns use them for 2 reasons. Sporting and self-defence.

My wife who is from the deep South is a very good shot with a handgun and I'm glad she is capable of protecting herself. My daughter who is 19 is also learning how to shoot. I am glad they can protect themselves. I hope you don't think this makes us a bloodthirsty family - but it is pretty common down here.

For criminals sometimes knowing the other person may have a gun is in itself a deterent. I'll give you my own example. I had to work late into the night once, and on my way home, I was stopped at a red light in a dubious part of town. Two bums started walking over to my Jeep from the underpass. Whatever their intentions were, I rolled my window halfway down and said, " I just want you guys to know I have a handgun license!".

They made an about face and walked away. I did not even have my 9mm with me!

btw, how did you manage to have an AK-47 @ home? Those are not allowed for civilians in Pakistan is it?

 

[Officer of Engineers]

Sid,

In case you do not know, there is also a strong gun culture in Canada. It's hidden and obscure but go 20 miles out of any city and there's not one farm that does not have guns and I mean guns as in plural.

Aside from my .30-06, I have a 12 guage that I use around my hobby farm, from clearing out vermin to putting down animals that the vet at times would take too long to come. I have a 9mm Beretta that I competition shoot with. And I look at my neigbours with envy as he shows off his .270 and 7mm Mags.

 

[TexasJohn]

Sid,
I have a 9mm Beretta that I competition shoot with. And I look at my neigbours with envy as he shows off his .270 and 7mm Mags.

What coincidence!! I have a 9mm Beretta also only it's a copy by Helwan of Egypt. It is a copy of the Brigadier. The finish is not near as good as the real thing , but the parts are interchangable. As for the finish.... now I know why God made Cold Blue!!!

 

[Sid]

btw, how did you manage to have an AK-47 @ home? Those are not allowed for civilians in Pakistan is it?

Who? Me? First of all, I don't own any gun and secondly, I don't live in Pakistan. Some misunderstanding I presume?

 

[Officer of Engineers]

What coincidence!! I have a 9mm Beretta also only it's a copy by Helwan of Egypt. It is a copy of the Brigadier. The finish is not near as good as the real thing , but the parts are interchangable. As for the finish.... now I know why God made Cold Blue!!!

92FS, former USArmy stock. Not really a great gun but I've gotten so used to its quirks that I rather not go through the process again though I have shot others. I was qualified for the SiG in the Army but found that gun a bit too big for my hands.