GRSE loses Philippine Frigate project to Hyundai

[Anjo]

I agree - the Philippines has been building a strong defence relationship with Korea in recent times, including the purchase of the FA-50 Fighting Eagle jets - the Philippines' only fighter aircraft type. I doubt they'd let go on the opportunity to solidify the relationship further.

Can anyone post some data on the Hyundai offer for this tender? I wish to compare it to the Project-28 Kamorta...not that it's gonna help anything, just as a personal interest.

HHI won't have a finalized design till mid 2017. Both GRSE & HHI only had to meet the minimum requirements and I'll list a few of the technical specs that pop out.

1. Lenght minimum 95m
2. CODAD propulsion
3. 76mm main gun
4. 3d radar
5. SAM
6. VLS, CIWS & TASS provisions.
7. Hull mounted sonar

If the Philippines did get a Kamorta variant the biggest difference would be the lack of Russian sensors & weapons. The Navy requires that these be sourced from countries that the Philippines have defense agreements with by the recommendation of GRSE.The budget for weapons is a separate project and will be done through a G2G deal.

 

[Kraitcorp]

HHI won't have a finalized design till mid 2017. Both GRSE & HHI only had to meet the minimum requirements and I'll list a few of the technical specs that pop out.

1. Lenght minimum 95m
2. CODAD propulsion
3. 76mm main gun
4. 3d radar
5. SAM
6. VLS, CIWS & TASS provisions.
7. Hull mounted sonar

If the Philippines did get a Kamorta variant the biggest difference would be the lack of Russian sensors & weapons. The Navy requires that these be sourced from countries that the Philippines have defense agreements with by the recommendation of GRSE.The budget for weapons is a separate project and will be done through a G2G deal.

@proud_indian

 

[anant_s]

Best wishes to Philippine navy.
In competitive bidding someone has to loose, i hope they have right choice and the boats serve their country's need.
For GRSE, there is always a next time.

 

[Armani]

HHI won't have a finalized design till mid 2017. Both GRSE & HHI only had to meet the minimum requirements and I'll list a few of the technical specs that pop out.

1. Lenght minimum 95m
2. CODAD propulsion
3. 76mm main gun
4. 3d radar
5. SAM
6. VLS, CIWS & TASS provisions.
7. Hull mounted sonar

If the Philippines did get a Kamorta variant the biggest difference would be the lack of Russian sensors & weapons. The budget for weapons is a separate project and will be done through a G2G deal.

I suppose Philippines will acquire a Harpoon or Exocet ASCM variant? Any information on what SAMs you are looking at?

Anyway, the Kamorta doesn't have many Russian sensors or weapons - all main radars & sonar arrays are Indian (some Israeli) and the only missiles the ASW Corvette is designed to carry are Israeli SAMs. Engines are French. Only Russian stuff would be the CIWS guns & the RBU launchers, and the target acquisition systems supporting them. But you would have swapped them with Western ones.

However, the Philippines didn't actual look at the 3400-ton Kamorta itself, but at a design for a 2000-ton variant. And you would have fitted them according to the needs of a multi-role frigate anyway.

 

[MilSpec]

Congrats to Philippines Navy. Unfortunate for GSRE to lose out.

 

[Anjo]

I suppose Philippines will acquire a Harpoon or Exocet ASCM variant? Any information on what SAMs you are looking at?

Anyway, the Kamorta doesn't have any Russian sensors or weapons - all main radars & sonar arrays are Indian (some Israeli) and the only missiles the ASW Corvette is designed to carry are Israeli SAMs. Engines are French. Only Russian stuff would be the CIWS guns & the RBU launchers, and the target acquisition systems supporting them. But you would have swapped them with Western ones.

However, the Philippines didn't actual look at the 3400-ton Kamorta itself, but at a design for a 2000-ton variant. And you would have fitted them according to the needs of a multi-role frigate anyway.

Actually for the ASCM's it will get are most likely be the Korean C-Star as the Navy is already acquiring Korean torpedos for the helicopters that are to be assigned to these frigates. There hasn't been any info on HHI's SAM and I can only speculate it might be Korean as well. One thing about this entire frigate project is that its a frigate by name only. The PN's requirements resemble what you would find on any contemporary corvette. One thing to note is that when the Navy sent its post qualifying team to India, a couple weeks later another team was sent to France to look at weapons/sensors for the GRSE variant. As for the design of HHI's frigate, I'll assume it will take cues from the batch 3 version of the Incheons.

Or it could take cues from the original design of the Incheon which looks quite similar to the Kamorta.

 

[Beast]

Why is it consider a surprise for many Indian that they lost the deal to South Korea who is the 2nd largest ship builder in the world?

 

[gslv mk3]

Why is it consider a surprise for many Indian that they lost the deal to South Korea who is the 2nd largest ship builder in the world?

Because we won the qualification tender & lost only due to technicalities.

 

[Farhan Bohra]

Yes India will need to get better at this. Right now we are still suffering from a NPA and sluggish credit situation which means injecting liquidity by the govt is not easy (since it needs to be balanced with other priorities).

I feel India needs to develop a corpus of private financing provided by the major private companies themselves under a private bank/insurance type format so that all defence companies in India can succeed over time in foreign bidding and not have the rug pulled out from under their legs when it comes to capital requirements.

@PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy @anant_s

@Anjo when was this document released btw?

You are comparing very different things. This is not about NPA of banks.

The PSU and Pvt. Shipyard are very different, a pvt. Shipyard can raise money from anywhere. While PSU need MoD for money and clearences from there.

Furthur, MoD releases money on quaterly basis to shipyards for projects.

But this doesnt mean GRSE is inferior or unable to carry out big projects in event they going to get P-17 A project.

HHI won't have a finalized design till mid 2017. Both GRSE & HHI only had to meet the minimum requirements and I'll list a few of the technical specs that pop out.

1. Lenght minimum 95m
2. CODAD propulsion
3. 76mm main gun
4. 3d radar
5. SAM
6. VLS, CIWS & TASS provisions.
7. Hull mounted sonar

If the Philippines did get a Kamorta variant the biggest difference would be the lack of Russian sensors & weapons. The Navy requires that these be sourced from countries that the Philippines have defense agreements with by the recommendation of GRSE.The budget for weapons is a separate project and will be done through a G2G deal.

Kamotra already have no Russian sensors. Some are indian and some are Israeli.

 

[Anjo]

You are comparing very different things. This is not about NPA of banks.

The PSU and Pvt. Shipyard are very different, a pvt. Shipyard can raise money from anywhere. While PSU need MoD for money and clearences from there.

Furthur, MoD releases money on quaterly basis to shipyards for projects.

But this doesnt mean GRSE is inferior or unable to carry out big projects in event they going to get P-17 A project.


Kamotra already have no Russian sensors. Some are indian and some are Israeli.

My bad, what I meant was the RBU launchers and CIWS guns.

 

[Farhan Bohra]

My bad, what I meant was the RBU launchers and CIWS guns.

But I am pretty sure even if some other PSU proposed this even MDL the situation would be same.

But if pvt. shipyard participated in this like Pipavav and L&T, even they are technologically and by experience they are inferior from GRSE and MDL, they would won the bid.

 

[randomradio]

If the Philippines did get a Kamorta variant the biggest difference would be the lack of Russian sensors & weapons.

There aren't any Russian sensors and weapons on the Kamorta.

Why is it consider a surprise for many Indian that they lost the deal to South Korea who is the 2nd largest ship builder in the world?

We lost to Philippines's bureaucracy.

My bad, what I meant was the RBU launchers and CIWS guns.

Those are made by L&T in India, so you would be buying them directly from India. L&T would be the OEM for both.

 

[Anjo]

There aren't any Russian sensors and weapons on the Kamorta.



We lost to Philippines's bureaucracy.



Those are made by L&T in India, so you would be buying them directly from India. L&T would be the OEM for both.

Are there no export restrictions on them?

 

[Basel]

Can someone compare both ships capability wise?

@Penguin your thoughts on both planforms please

 

[randomradio]

Are there no export restrictions on them?

They are Russians. They sell to anybody. L&T pays the Russians to make the stuff in India, so the more L&T makes, the more money the Russians make. If they can sell something through another country, they will do it, like selling the RD-93s for the JF-17s to Pakistan via China.

A correction though, the AK-630 is made by OFB.