Grounding A-10s will save $4.2 billion, decision ‘clear’: USAF general

[500]

Its a unique capability

The effective range of this gun is very low.

0:23

 

[Penguin]

POF should build such guns for Low Level AAAs.

If they bring all of the 500 or 400 of these in Pakistan secretly then it can make a big difference. Also they can deploy it where ever they wanted to.

the General Electric entry in the DIVAD competition was based on the company's GAU-8/A 30mm Gatling Gun.

The T249 Vigilante was a prototype 37 mm (SPAAG). The system consisted of a 37 mm T250 six-barrel gatling gun gun mounted on a lengthened M113 APC platform.

The Sperry entry in the DIVAD competition made use of their previous experience in developing the Vigilante antiaircraft weapon system. It utilized basically the same Gatling type gun modified from its original 37mm caliber to fire the 35mm NATO round.

Chinese LD-2000

The effective range of this gun is very low.

0:23

So? Although the A-10 can use stand-off weapons, there are few if any jets with have anythin near its capability to get ' up close and personal' with the opponent. Would you trust JSOW to deliver CLUSTER munitions as close to your own position as told below?

In March 2011, six A-10s were deployed as part of Operation Odyssey Dawn, the coalition intervention in Libya. They participated in attacks on Libyan ground forces there.[92][93]

On 24 July 2013, a pair of A-10s protected an ambushed convoy, supporting the evacuation efforts of wounded soldiers under hostile fire. Ground forces communicated an estimated location of enemy forces to the pilots, after which the lead aircraft, relying on visual references, fired two rockets to mark the area to guide cannon fire from the second A-10. The attackers moved closer to the soldiers, which prevented helicopter evacuation, leading to the convoy commander authorizing the A-10s to provide dangerously close fire. The aircraft conducted strafing runs, flying 75 ft above the enemy's position and 50 meters parallel to friendly ground forces, completing 15 gun passes firing nearly 2,300 rounds and dropping three 500 lb bombs. This engagement was typical of close-air support missions the A-10 was designed for.

Fairchild Republic A-10 Thunderbolt II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

M61 VUlcan / M168 gun / Palanx:

• Effective range: Figures depend on source and ammunition type; 1.5–2 km [9] or beyond 2 km [10]
• Maximum firing range: 5 km

GAU-8
Effective firing range4,000 feet (1,220 m)
Maximum firing range
Over 12,000 feet (3,660 m)

 

[500]

So? Although the A-10 can use stand-off weapons, there are few if any jets with have anythin near its capability to get ' up close and personal' with the opponent. Would you trust JSOW to deliver CLUSTER munitions as close to your own position as told below?

JSOW has 10 m accuracy. 100 m away u will be more than safe.

Fairchild Republic A-10 Thunderbolt II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Using A-10 against failed state like Lybia is fine. But against any country with decent air defence and air force they will be slaughtered.

 

[Penguin]

Cluster bombs are neither accurate nor reliable

Critical issues

the explosive submunitions are not precision-guided

Landmine and Cluster Munition Monitor

 

[Penguin]

JSOW has 10 m accuracy. 100 m away u will be more than safe.

Using A-10 against failed state like Lybia is fine. But against any country with decent air defence and air force they will be slaughtered.

Accuracy of the GPS/INS guidance system actually is better than 3 m (10 ft) CEP....

However, don't mistake the accuracy of the delivery vehicle with the accuracy of any submunitions, as they are different things. Weapons with submunitions tend to be area weapons and so will release their cargo not on target but near/over target, at some height.

The warhead of the AGM-154A consists of no less than 145 BLU-97/B Combined Effects Bomb submunitions. These bomblets have a shaped charge for armor defeating capability, a fragmenting case for material destruction, and a zirconium ring for incendiary effects. Those bomblets are unguided and go all over the place.

AGM-154B carries 6 BLU-108/B SFM (Sensor Fuzed Munition) dispensers, each of which can release four "Skeet" terminally guided anti-tank submunitions.

AGM-154C uses a "BROACH" multi-stage blast fragmentation/penetrator warhead. It features an IIR seeker and ATA (Automatic Target Acquisition) technology that allows the missile to find the target without intervention of an operator, because ATA's internal logic compares the IIR seeker's image with preset reference images.

I suspect that in the Lybian example, the A (general purpose) version would have had to be used rather than the B (antitank) and C (anti bunker) versions. Depending on the presence of tanks, the B version may have been required.

The muzzle velocity of the GAU-8/A is about the same as that of the M61 Vulcan cannon, but GAU-8/A uses heavier ammunition and has superior ballistics. Its time of flight to 4,000 feet (1,200 m) is 30 percent less than that of an M61 round, the projectile decelerates much less rapidly after leaving the barrel, and it drops a negligible amount, about 10 feet (3.0 m) over the distance. The GAU-8/A accuracy when installed in the A-10 is rated at "5 mil, 80 percent", meaning that 80 percent of rounds fired will hit within a cone with an angle of five-milliradians. This equates to a 40 feet (12 m) diameter circle at the weapon's design range of 4,000 feet (1,200 m). By comparison, the M61 has an 8-milliradian dispersion.

JSOW
Operational
rangelow altitude launch: 22 kilometres (12 nmi)
high altitude launch: 130 kilometres (70 nmi)

The A-10 from the start used Maverick missiles. The AGM-65 Maverick air-to-surface missile is a commonly-used munition, targeted via electro-optical (TV-guided) or infrared. The Maverick allows target engagement at much greater ranges than the cannon, and thus less risk from anti-aircraft systems. The range of the Maverick is given as 'greater than 22 kilometres (12 nmi)'. Other weapons include cluster bombs and Hydra rocket pods. Although the A-10 is equipped to carry laser-guided bombs, their use is relatively uncommon. The point of course is, like many other aircraft the A-10 can deliver a variety of (standoff) ordnance. The question is whether those other aircraft can deliver with their cannon what the Warthog does with its GAU-8, given that those other aircraft (including UCAVs) aren't 'hardened' against battle damage in the same way that the Warthog is. It is like 'mmm what shall I send? My Oryx derived helicopter gunship or my Rooivalk attack helicopter? Armed Mi17 or Mi 24 Hind?'

The A-10 example happened to be in Lybia. Lybia being a failed state is irrelevant to the purpose of the example. I think you are forgetting that the A-10 was designed specifically to fly over Europe, Germany in particular, and engage the (expected) Soviet armored onslaught. You would characterize massed Soviet armor formations as having no decent airdefence (note many nations still using those very same Russian systems today, in modernized form) and the Soviet airforce as weak (massed Mig 29, SU 27? Plus many other types)?

 

[500]

I think you are forgetting that the A-10 was designed specifically to fly over Europe, Germany in particular, and engage the (expected) Soviet armored onslaught. You would characterize massed Soviet armor formations as having no decent airdefence (note many nations still using those very same Russian systems today, in modernized form) and the Soviet airforce as weak (massed Mig 29, SU 27? Plus many other types)?

As I said A-10 was designed in 1970-es. When there were no normal UAVs, no normal target pods, no SAR radars on planes, no GMTI radars...

So the only way to find and identify small ground targets was slow moving but armored plane. But nowdays we got all these. We can detect targets from distance and then destroy it again from safe distance either by Maverick/Brimstone if its single target or JSOW if its group target.

But if u are fighting against Libya u can still use A-10 and save expensive missiles.

 

[Black Eagle 90]

the General Electric entry in the DIVAD competition was based on the company's GAU-8/A 30mm Gatling Gun.

The T249 Vigilante was a prototype 37 mm (SPAAG). The system consisted of a 37 mm T250 six-barrel gatling gun gun mounted on a lengthened M113 APC platform.

The Sperry entry in the DIVAD competition made use of their previous experience in developing the Vigilante antiaircraft weapon system. It utilized basically the same Gatling type gun modified from its original 37mm caliber to fire the 35mm NATO round.

Chinese LD-2000

So? Although the A-10 can use stand-off weapons, there are few if any jets with have anythin near its capability to get ' up close and personal' with the opponent. Would you trust JSOW to deliver CLUSTER munitions as close to your own position as told below?


Fairchild Republic A-10 Thunderbolt II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

M61 VUlcan / M168 gun / Palanx:

• Effective range: Figures depend on source and ammunition type; 1.5–2 km [9] or beyond 2 km [10]
• Maximum firing range: 5 km

GAU-8
Effective firing range4,000 feet (1,220 m)
Maximum firing range
Over 12,000 feet (3,660 m)

I am 100% sure that POF with NESCOM-GIDS can make even better CIWS having 7 Multi Barrel 30m.m cannon and 2 Cells of 7 Anza MKIIIs as well on each side.

 

[Nike]

In my humble opinion, one day if armored thread either from China, North Korea or even Russia awaken once more into US Allied countries, those beautiful ugly beasts shall be needed more than ever.

 

[Oldman1]

A-10 was deigned when there were no UAV, thermal target pods, smart cluster bombs. Its still good against insurgency, but its way outdated against any normal army.

Since US is leaving Afghanistan soon there will be no need in A-10.

They were designed to fight a massive conventional army like the Soviets. There is nothing outdated. They use B1s against insurgents in Afghanistan, does that mean its outdated and not useful against a conventional army? Tell those Iraqis in Gulf War 1.

 

[anonymus]

This thing can use only when you got a complete air superiority.Other wise it is vulnerable to enemy fighter jets

This plane is made for CAS and bombing run. These type of planes operate under air superiority only, either local or complete.

Even if an F-22 is sent for CAS mission without achieving air superiority in it's theater of operation, it would end up as a heap of twisted metal.

 

[Black Eagle 90]

Yes! Off course. If they bring in all 400 out of US; like 300 in East Asia: 100 in Malaysia, 100 in Indonesia and 100 in Vietnam and South Asia 100 in Pakistan. Also the remaining 400 which are present as spares can be utilized by these countries.

Also their operating cost will be reduced in these countries; So US might only have to pay $1.1 Billion to operate from these countries.

 

[Juice]

The production of A-10 aircraft came to an end in 1984 after a total of 713 aircraft were produced. [I suppose 716 included preproduction or prototypes]. Untill recently, over 367 A-10 aircraft were in service with the US Air Force, Air Combat Command, the US Air Force Reserve and the Air National Guard. The aircraft variants in service in the US Air force were A-10 (143), and A-10C (70); Reserve A-10 (46) and OA-10 (6); ANG, A-10 (84) and OA-10 (18).
A-10 Thunderbolt (Warthog) - Airforce Technology


Air Force leaders defend move to retire popular 'Warthog' plane| Reuters

The numbers don't quite match
143+70=213 for USAF,
46+6=52 for AFRC and
102 for ANG
i.e. 265 for air force incl reserve versus 283)
but it gives an idea of the number in AF and ANG service.

From the A-10 wiki:


So, there is some shifting about.



> 713-716 minus 8 equals 705-708


348-102=246, which is lower than above



Capt. Kim Campbell assesses the damage to her A-10 "Warthog" one day after it was hit by enemy fire over Baghdad, Iraq. USAF Photo by Staff Sgt. Jason Haag
Women In Military Service For America Memorial

MOre here: Story about Battle Damaged A-10

Who ever shot at her was damned good....

 

[Penguin]

Who ever shot at her was damned good....

Mostly small arrms, hmgs

 

[Munir]

Selling an A10 to a foreign country is like selling a nuclear weapon.

The Americans did have no issue selling India nuclear tech while it had not even signed NPT... There is nothing like clean politics.

 

[Oldman1]

The Americans did have no issue selling India nuclear tech while it had not even signed NPT... There is nothing like clean politics.

We helped them for nuclear reactors. Not nuclear weapons. An A-10 is a weapons platform. Does Japan have nuclear weapons when we provided the tech? No.