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Ground Zero mosque wins approval !!

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Personally I am against Muslems building this Mosque at this location, as are more then 70 percent of americans. I think its an affront to Americans, its insentive, its offensive, its insult but I support Muslims right to build it.
 
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It seems some are out of their depth and are just trying to deflect and divert.

It is not about Indians and India. How hard can that be to understand! The opposition is coming from American citizens who are otherwise so freely allowing people from all over.

The elected representatives of American citizens ranging from senators to their president have approved the project.

So whats Indian problem now ???????
 
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Obama throws support behind controversial Islamic center


By Dan Gilgoff, CNN
August 14, 2010 12:04 a.m. EDT

t1larg.obama.ramadan.afp.gi.jpg



Washington (CNN) -- President Obama threw his support behind a controversial proposal to build an Islamic center and mosque near New York's ground zero, saying Friday that "Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as anyone else in this country."

"That includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances," Obama said at a White House Iftar dinner celebrating the Islamic holy month of Ramadan.

The president's remarks drew praise from New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who announced his support for the Islamic center last week.

Bloomberg compared Obama's speech to a letter President George Washington wrote in support of a Jewish congregation in Newport, Rhode Island. "President Obama's words tonight evoked President Washington's own august reminder that 'all possess alike liberty,' " Bloomberg said in a statement.

"I applaud President Obama's clarion defense of the freedom of religion tonight," he said.

To learn more about the "ground zero" mosque, see CNN's Belief Blog

Critics of the proposed Islamic center quickly denounced Obama's remarks. "President Obama is wrong," said Rep. Peter King (R-N.Y.). "It is insensitive and uncaring for the Muslim community to build a mosque in the shadow of Ground Zero. Unfortunately, the President caved into political correctness."

"While the Muslim community has the right to build the mosque, they are abusing that right by needlessly offending so many people who have suffered so much," King said in a statement. "The right and moral thing for President Obama to have done was to urge Muslim leaders to respect the families of those who died and move their mosque away from Ground Zero."

Obama, who said he was speaking both as a citizen and as president, invoked the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, which critics of the Islamic center cite as the main reason for preventing its construction.

"We must all recognize and respect the sensitivities surrounding the development of lower Manhattan," Obama said, according to his prepared remarks. "The 9/11 attacks were a deeply traumatic event for our country."

"The pain and suffering experienced by those who lost loved ones is unimaginable," he continued. "So I understand the emotions that this issue engenders. Ground zero is, indeed, hallowed ground."

But Obama said one "reason that we will win this fight" against terrorism is "our capacity to show not merely tolerance, but respect to those who are different from us -- a way of life that stands in stark contrast to the nihilism of those who attacked us on that September morning, and who continue to plot against us today."

Repeatedly invoking the nation's founders and examples of religious tolerance from American history, the president argued that national ideals and the Constitution demanded that the project proceed.

He noted that Thomas Jefferson hosted the the first Iftar dinner at the White House more than 200 years ago and said that the country had previously seen "controversies about the construction of synagogues or Catholic churches."

"But time and again," he said, "the American people have demonstrated that we can work through these issues."

"This is America, and our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakable," Obama said. "The principle that people of all faiths are welcome in this country, and will not be treated differently by their government, is essential to who we are. The writ of our Founders must endure."

The proposed Islamic center has provoked vocal opposition from some families of 9/11 victims and other groups. Nearly 70 percent of Americans oppose the plan, according to CNN/Opinion Research Corporation Poll released Wednesday.

"Obama came out for the Islamic supremacist mosque at the hallowed ground of 911 attack," Pamela Geller, a leading foe of the Islamic center, wrote on her blog Friday night. "He has, in effect, sided with the Islamic jihadists."

Muslim Americans, meanwhile, applauded the speech. "It was pitch perfect and it was cut and dry," said Eboo Patel, executive director of the Interfaith Youth Core and a Muslim adviser to the White House on faith issues. "He said that our Founding Fathers built a nation on religious freedom where people from different faiths can pray and thrive and that is that."

Some Muslims said they were surprised to hear the president weigh in on the controversy.

"It's such a hot potato and he's already got so much on his plate and people jumping on him for any hint of an Islamic connection," said Akbar Ahmed, an American University professor who attended Friday's White House dinner. "But he plunged in and took a very bold position."

The Islamic center's leaders say they plan to build the $100 million, 13-story facility called Cordoba House three blocks from the site of the 9/11 attacks. The developer, Sharif El-Gamal, describes the project as an "Islamic community center" that will include a 500-seat performing arts center, a lecture hall, a swimming pool, a gym, a culinary school, a restaurant and a prayer space for Muslims.

On Wednesday, the project's developers declined an offer by New York Gov. David Paterson to relocate the project to a state-owned site.

Earlier this month, the New York City Landmarks Preservation Commission unanimously denied landmark status for the building where the proposed Islamic center would stand, allowing the project to move forward.


Link:

Obama throws support behind controversial Islamic center - CNN.com
 
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The point is the consistent frequency and vigor with which Indians attack Islam and muslims -- on this forum and in the outside world.

Clinched but still, you DO know some millions of Muslims declare themselves as Indian in their passport, I don't remember us(?) indulging to any killing spree of those poor souls. See the point is any criticism in this forum or any other place in World doesn't hurt people! It doesn't even break the forum rules!

@topic: I don't see any legal way of stopping the construction, it's public property and the only way it can be stopped is if they ban Islam in US or muslims themselves stop the construction, which I think would be more reasonable for them as this construction only gonna rise Islamophobia in westerns. Also it kinda tags the whole 9/11 episodes to Islam by associating the prayer places to the gruesome incident.
 
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Jewish Vigil for Cordoba House


By Rabbi Arthur Waskow | 8/6/2010


Waskow_Tallis_medium.jpg



On August 5, The Shalom Center and other Jewish leaders from New York held a vigil at the site of the proposed Muslim cultural center and prayer space in Lower Manhattan, supporting the plan for Cordoba House there.

It was an extraordinary success, both in the moment and in media coverage. Prayer, song, and chants were interspersed with speeches for a gathering of about 50 people, well-covered by print and TV media. More than 180 newspapers have carried reports of the vigil, including full-page coverage in Metro and Newsday.

After a number of speakers from the Jewish community, Daisy Khan, co-founder of the Cordoba Initiative that is sponsoring and planning the cultural center, spoke with heartfelt thanks to those of us in the Jewish community who had been working in favor of Córdoba House and who had gathered on Park Place to welcome them.

Rabbi Ellen Lippman of Congregation Kolot Chayeinu in Brooklyn, co-chair of Rabbis for Human Rights/North America and one of the key organizers of the vigil, gave Daisy Kahn the traditional Jewish symbols of a housewarming: bread, salt, honey, and a candle.

We began with the chant, in Hebrew and English, that teaches: "Here I stand, and I take upon myself the commitment of the Creator: 'Love your neighbor as yourself, your neighbor as yourself. Hareini m'kabeyl alai et mitzvat Ha-Borei: V'ahavta l'rayecha kamocha, l'rayecha kamocha. ' "

When I rose to speak, I explained that when I rise to read from the Torah my name is "Abraham Isaac Ishmael Ocean." With that as my name, I find my own self torn apart and bloodied when there is bloodshed between the children of Sarah through Isaac and the children of Hagar through Ishmael -- between the different families of Abraham. And when the families of Hagar and Sarah come together in peace, only then can I feel my own self united and whole.

I was wearing a tallit. I explained that in every tallit, the tzitiziot on the four corners -- the fringes -- are a mixture of my cloth ad God's, the Universe's, air. They are threads of connection between my self and the world. It is not good fences make good neighbirs but good fringes make good neighbors. It is these frings that make the tallit sacred. And Cordoba House would be exactly such a fringe, rooted in Islam and reaching out to the rest of the world.

On my own tallit are embroidered the Dome of the Rock and the Western Wall. And between them is embroidered a rock--the rock upon which in the Jewish tradition Abraham bound Isaac, the same rock upon which in Muslim tradition Mohammed--peace be upon him--began his mystical ascent to Heaven. This tallit of mine symbolizes the sacred companionship between Judaism and Islam, as does my name.

For years, I explained, I have worked with and alongside Imam Rauf and Daisy Khan for peace in the world and dialogue between our traditions. I am not alone in knowing who they are: the New York Jewish Community Relations Council and the Jewish Council on Public Affairs have publicly affirmed that these leaders of the Córdoba initiative have for years worked with the Jewish community in fruitful ways.

So all the questions that have been raised about them:--those truly curious and those simply nasty--could have been answered simply by asking leaders of the Jewish community.

I said that it was all the more distressing that the Anti-Defamation League had ignored these close relationships in New York City and made a national tumult about the placement of a Muslim cultural Center in Lower Manhattan.


Link:

The Shalom Center | A prophetic voice in Jewish, multireligious, and American life
 
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Clinched but still, you DO know some millions of Muslims declare themselves as Indian in their passport, I don't remember us(?) indulging to any killing spree of those poor souls. See the point is any criticism in this forum or any other place in World doesn't hurt people! It doesn't even break the forum rules!

@topic: I don't see any legal way of stopping the construction, it's public property and the only way it can be stopped is if they ban Islam in US or muslims themselves stop the construction, which I think would be more reasonable for them as this construction only gonna rise Islamophobia in westerns. Also it kinda tags the whole 9/11 episodes to Islam by associating the prayer places to the gruesome incident.

This post has no intention to undermine the events of 9/11. Rather a respond to educate poster about more "Gruesome incident in your own land":

Nellie massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The massacre claimed the lives of 2,191. Six hundred and eighty eight criminal cases were filed in connection with Nellie organised massacre and of these 310 cases were charge-sheeted. The remaining 378 cases were closed due to the police claim of “lack of evidence”. But all the 310 charge-sheeted cases were dropped by the AGP government as a part of Assam Accord; therefore not a single person has even had to face trial for the gruesome massacre.



1984 anti-Sikh riots - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The violence in Delhi was triggered by the assassination of Indira Gandhi on 31 October 1984, by two of her Sikh bodyguards in response to her actions during the preceding months. The Government of India reported 2,700 Sikh deaths however human rights organizations and newspapers report the death toll to be 10,000-17,000. In the aftermath of the riot, the Government of India reported 20,000 had fled the city, however the PUCL reported "at least" 50,000 displaced persons.The Akal Takht, the governing religious body of Sikhism, considers the killings to be a genocide."

"On October 31, Congress party officials provided assailants with voter lists, school registration forms, and ration lists.[30] The lists were used to find the location of Sikh homes and business, an otherwise impossible task because they were located in unmarked and diverse neighborhoods. On the night of October 31, the night before the massacres began, assailants used the lists to mark the houses of Sikhs with letter "S".[31] In addition, because most of the mobs were illiterate, Congress Party officials provided help in reading the lists and leading the mobs to Sikh homes and businesses in the other neighborhoods. By using the lists the mobs were able to pinpoint the locations of Sikhs they otherwise would have missed"


Bombay Riots - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




2002 Gujarat violence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


What was that you were saying about not indulging in killing spree ? You are right, these were not killing spree. These were genocidal massacars.

I do not tag Hindus for these tragedies. Nor do I attempt to malign Hindu religion for same.
 
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I for one totally support the building of mosque on the ground zero as for one some people over here are trying to say that al qaeda represent Islam that is not in the slightest. As for many muslims dont even consider them muslims.
Next if US people think that whole Islamic community is to blame than what about those who are opposing it what about those Islamic countries or muslims who oppose the al qaeda and even are at war at them. The whole world are at a war with terrorist whether they are muslims,christian,hindus or bhuddist.Blaming one community is int gonna help.
What about those Pak Army personal who died to help americans to win this war arent they muslims.
Gambit have give a point that the 911 was due to the fact cause they support Isalmic cause. First of all Islam is not a noun its a verb.Its a state when muslim fulfills its 5 basic fundamentals. And i dont see anywhere in Islam which stats that killing of innocence is upto you.

There is no connection between 911 and Islam it has nothing to do with it.
Samad Afridi
Ashraf Ahmad
Shabbir Ahmad (45 years old; Windows on the World; leaves wife and 3 children)
Umar Ahmad
Azam Ahsan
Ahmed Ali
Tariq Amanullah (40 years old; Fiduciary Trust Co.; ICNA website team member; leaves wife and 2 children)
Touri Bolourchi (69 years old; United Airlines #175; a retired nurse from Tehran)
Salauddin Ahmad Chaudhury
Abdul K. Chowdhury (30 years old; Cantor Fitzgerald)
Mohammad S. Chowdhury (39 years old; Windows on the World; leaves wife and child born 2 days after the attack)
Jamal Legesse Desantis
Ramzi Attallah Douani (35 years old; Marsh & McLennan)
SaleemUllah Farooqi
Syed Fatha (54 years old; Pitney Bowes)
Osman Gani
Mohammad Hamdani (50 years old)
Salman Hamdani (NYPD Cadet)
Aisha Harris (21 years old; General Telecom)
Shakila Hoque (Marsh & McLennan)
Nabid Hossain
Shahzad Hussain
Talat Hussain
Mohammad Shah Jahan (Marsh & McLennan)
Yasmeen Jamal
Mohammed Jawarta (MAS security)
Arslan Khan Khakwani
Asim Khan
Ataullah Khan
Ayub Khan
Qasim Ali Khan
Sarah Khan (32 years old; Cantor Fitzgerald)
Taimour Khan (29 years old; Karr Futures)
Yasmeen Khan
Zahida Khan
Badruddin Lakhani
Omar Malick
Nurul Hoque Miah (36 years old)
Mubarak Mohammad (23 years old)
Boyie Mohammed (Carr Futures)
Raza Mujtaba
Omar Namoos
Mujeb Qazi
Tarranum Rahim
Ehtesham U. Raja (28 years old)
Ameenia Rasool (33 years old)
Naveed Rehman
Yusuf Saad
Rahma Salie & unborn child (28 years old; American Airlines #11; wife of Michael Theodoridis; 7 months pregnant)
Shoman Samad
Asad Samir
Khalid Shahid (25 years old; Cantor Fitzgerald; engaged to be married in November)
Mohammed Shajahan (44 years old; Marsh & McLennan)
Naseema Simjee (Franklin Resources Inc.'s Fiduciary Trust)
Jamil Swaati
Sanober Syed
Robert Elias Talhami (40 years old; Cantor Fitzgerald)
Michael Theodoridis (32 years old; American Airlines #11; husband of Rahma Salie)
W. Wahid

In case you are wondering whose these are well this is the list of MUSLIMS who died in 911 attacks.These are also people who believe in "ALLAH HU AKBAR".
According to Gambit and Solomons logic Every single muslim living in America have no constitutional right.
 
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Thank you for educating myself, mentioned things are equally gruesome and as an Indian I feel ashamed for those. But how is that related to my post?

By the way heard anything about Great Calcutta Killing? Shouldn't you have educated me of that as well?
 
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What was that you were saying about not indulging in killing spree ? You are right, these were not killing spree. These were genocidal massacars.

I do not tag Hindus for these tragedies. Nor do I attempt to malign Hindu religion for same.

I don't think you understood my point, read my post again, this time without being pre-emptively opinionated.
 
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61 % New Yorkers oppose to Islamic centre...well that’s quite a lot of people. I agree.

BUT,

There is also a large percentage of Americans who believe that either 9/11 was a cover up or the US Govt knew about it....We are talking of people in Millions....That’s a lot of people too.

Look for yourself the polls for 9/11 cover up with CNN, Fox News, TIME, Zogby, various radio polls, MSNBC etc.
There are hundreds and thousands of scientists, engineers, architects, pilots, scholars etc who are questioning the official version of 9/11......Are all the highly intelligent people NUTS??


A lot of innocent people died on that day and are still dying in various parts of world as a result of 9/11....

Shall I blindly believe what the mainstream media and Govt told me or shall I use my own good judgement and try to find the answer for n number of loop holes in the official story? Even the Billy Doyle, who is representative of largest 9/11 Families Group has raised his head against US Govt...

.... and if there is a cover up , then why shall anyone care about Islamic centre? Large % of American population is themselves suggesting that Muslims perhaps had nothing to do with 9/11 anyway.
 
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61 % New Yorkers oppose to Islamic centre...well that’s quite a lot of people. I agree.

BUT,

There is also a large percentage of Americans who believe that either 9/11 was a cover up or the US Govt knew about it....We are talking of people in Millions....That’s a lot of people too.

Look for yourself the polls for 9/11 cover up with CNN, Fox News, TIME, Zogby, various radio polls, MSNBC etc.
There are hundreds and thousands of scientists, engineers, architects, pilots, scholars etc who are questioning the official version of 9/11......Are all the highly intelligent people NUTS??

YouTube - 911 Polls - You Are Not Alone

A lot of innocent people died on that day and are still dying in various parts of world as a result of 9/11....

Shall I blindly believe what the mainstream media and Govt told me or shall I use my own good judgement and try to find the answer for n number of loop holes in the official story? Even the Billy Doyle, who is representative of largest 9/11 Families Group has raised his head against US Govt...

.... and if there is a cover up , then why shall anyone care about Islamic centre? Large % of American population is themselves suggesting that Muslims perhaps had nothing to do with 9/11 anyway.

We have a number of stupid americans that belive the same thing, a lot of stupid people beliving the same thing dont make it true.
 
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This is a sensitive topic to all Americans, apparently Obama supports the idea.
 
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The elected representatives of American citizens ranging from senators to their president have approved the project.

So whats Indian problem now ???????

There is no Indian problem. I have personally not said a word about the mosque itself and I don't care.

I have just replied to the lazy and hypocritical accusations of calling all those who are protesting against it as Islamophobes and worse. I will explain in my next post.
 
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Personally I am against Muslems building this Mosque at this location, as are more then 70 percent of americans. I think its an affront to Americans, its insentive, its offensive, its insult but I support Muslims right to build it.

Do you belive in private property? Do US citizens have the right to own property? The Mosque will be built on private property!

Does the US constitution gaurantee the freedom religion? Yes it does

Now, you don't have to like any of the idea of private property nor the notion of freedom of religion nor the idea of constitutional liberties -- But that won't effect the legal positon the issue is based on.


Indian used to majoritarianism find it difficult to understand that "feelings" and "sensitivities" of "Americans" (read not Muslims) are just that, feelings, where as the issue is grounded in constitutional liberties.

We would all do better if we were to feel less and think more.
 
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