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Greece is in panic on impending acquisition of the F-35 by Turkey

I think genocide is ironic to be used as a term here. Please don't twist facts using inappropriate terminology.

omg now you are saying the greeks didnt kill many many cypriots ? another reason i like my race so much is because although there was so many massacres , genocide against us we dont cry , ask turks who came to turkey from balkan ottoman lands after ww1 how many died , how many got killed by the christians , how many were forced to move hundreds of km without food etc , but we dont cry because we are too big as a nation to cry , we will keep it in ourselves , so turkey intervened into cyprus because we just thought we should ?

The Russian Tsarist Empire waged war against Circassia in the Northwest Caucasus for nearly a hundred years, trying to get Circassia's prominent position along the Black Sea coast. After a century of insurgency and all-out war and continual failure to end the affair, the Tsar ordered the expulsion of most of the Muslim population of the North Caucasus. This event is remembered among Circassians as a national tragedy and is well-known among other Caucasian peoples and in Turkey as well. In the modern context of the word, there have been many claims, by Circassians, by Western historians (Colarusso, Charles King, etc.), by Turks and by Chechens that the events of the 1860s constituted one of the first "modern" horrible genocides in modern history, where a whole population is eliminated to satisfy the desires (in this case economic) of a powerful country.
Among many historians (including also John Colarusso, Charles King, etc.), Antero Leitzinger wrote in an article called "The Circassian Genocide", initially published in the Turkistan News, that a genocide committed against the Circassian nation by Czarist Russia in the 19th century has been almost entirely forgotten, and that it was the largest genocide of the 19th century.[99] Approximately 1-1.5 million Circassians were killed, and upon the order of the Tsar, most of the Muslim population was deported (i.e., all except Ossete Muslims and Kabardins; the modern Circassians and Abazins either managed to escape or, as is the case with most, returned; at the time after the deportation, as Charles King notes in his books, travelers who searched throughout the area for Circassians could not find any left except the Kabardins), mainly to the Ottoman Empire, causing the exile of another 1.5 million Circassians and others. This effectively annihilated (or deported) 90% of the nation.[100] Circassians were viewed as tools by the Ottoman government, and settled in restive areas whose populations had nationalist yearnings- Armenia, the Arab regions and the Balkans. Many more Circassians were killed by the policies of the Balkan states, primarily Serbia and Bulgaria, which became independent at that time.[citation needed] Still more Circassians were forcefully assimilated by nationalist Muslim states (Turkey, Syria, Iraq, etc.) who looked upon non-Turk/Arab ethnicity as a foreign presence and a threat.
In May 1994, the then Russian President Boris Yeltsin admitted that resistance to the tsarist forces was legitimate, but he did not recognize "the guilt of the tsarist government for the genocide."[101] In 1997 and 1998, the leaders of Kabardino-Balkaria and of Adygea sent appeals to the Duma to reconsider the situation and to issue the needed apology; to date, there has been no response from Moscow. In October 2006, the Adygeyan public organizations of Russia, Turkey, Israel, Jordan, Syria, the USA, Belgium, Canada and Germany sent the president of the European Parliament a letter with a request to recognize the genocide against Adygean (Circassian) people.[citation needed]
On 5 July 2005 the Circassian Congress, an organisation that unites representatives of the various Circassian peoples in the Russian Federation, called on Moscow first to acknowledge and then to apologize for Tsarist policies that Circassians say constituted a genocide. Their appeal pointed out that "according to the official tsarist documents more than 400,000 Circassians were killed, 497,000 were forced to flee abroad to Turkey, and only 80,000 were left alive in their native area."[101] The movement has since been campaigning for the recognition of the "Circassian genocide".[102] Nevertheless, whether it is considered genocide or not, just as is the case with the Armenians and Jews, the Circassians view the memory of the brutal expulsions and killings at the hands of Russia and the suffering that the Russians inflicted upon them as a central part of the Circassian identity.

i know many people killed and fled from russia in ww1 to turkey and who recognises the genocide russians did?

there is many more aswell
 
OttomanTurk: I can see that you are neglecting my TRNC/Artsakh question. I don't blame you, Turkey is clearly being hypocritical.

Your entire arguement is based off of the fact that you do not know what "genocide" means.

The reason that you do not "cry" is because any Turkish deaths were but a fraction of a fraction of the entire Turkish population. Therefor it cannot be genocide (means "killing of an ethnicity): because nothing close to that ever happend. Same with Khojaly: ~600 Azeris killed...out of 50 million. How on earth is this genocide!?!?!?!?

The majority of Armenians were killed by Ottomans though. That is why it is called Armenian Genocide.
 
omg now you are saying the greeks didnt kill many many cypriots?
there is many more aswell

wow..someone has a lot to say.

Because I like things said as they are, you need to hear a holistic view without any fanfares.

1. Yes I am saying Greeks didn't kill many many cypriots, because Greeks were NOT on the island. Greek cypriots were. Greek cypriots are NOT the same as Greeks, as Turkish-cypriots are NOT the same as Turks.

2. A genocide is an indiscriminate slaughter of every living soul belonging to a particular ethnicity. That is not what happened on Cyprus.

3. I don't want you to think, I am avoiding the issue. Yes, a lot of turkish-cypriots were killied. Needlessly, and they were innocent. And I feel bad for all Greek-cypriots who had anything to do with it. But that is NOT genocide. Quite frankly, it is civil war.

4. There was a lot of political turmoil back then. Not different to what was going on in Yugoslavia just before it was broken up.

5. Did the turkish invasion save turkish-cypriot lives. Probably yes. Did it make things better for the Turkish-cypriots in the long run. Probably not.

6. You need to contemplate on how was the Turkish army able to carry out an invasion in such a short notice!! Surely it would take longer if they were simply reacting to the events. My opinion is that the Turkish leadership is not made up of fools. Never was. They knew what was coming and didn't act to prevent it, only because it suited their goals. What were these? To annex the island.

7. Why is Greece to blame? Because Greece had a military government which had some very shady dealing in the para-political stage .


Where did all this mess get us ? Were we are today. An island divided, and some very unhappy people. Guess who these are!
 
50 million azeri turks? what about circassians killed by russians?

35 million*. Doesn't make a difference though, Khojaly was still not even close to genocide.

IMO, Circassian ethnic cleansing was Genocide. Russia could do a good deed and recognize, but Russia Federation is not legal successor to Russian Empire, so it has no obligation.

On the other hand, Turkey is legal successor to Ottoman Empire, so it does have obligation.

2. A genocide is an indiscriminate slaughter of every living soul belonging to a particular ethnicity. That is not what happened on Cyprus.

No that is not Genocide. Genocide is a very specific term. What you defined is simply ethnic cleansing. It would have been genocide if Greeks made a conscious effort to wipe out the entire Turkish race (which is clearly untrue).
 
russia isnt successor to russian empire? who is rwanda? ghana? obviously russia is succesor to russian empire and soviet union just as we are successor to great seljuk empire and ottoman empire etc

35 million*. Doesn't make a difference though, Khojaly was still not even close to genocide.

IMO, Circassian ethnic cleansing was Genocide. Russia could do a good deed and recognize, but Russia Federation is not legal successor to Russian Empire, so it has no obligation.

On the other hand, Turkey is legal successor to Ottoman Empire, so it does have obligation.



No that is not Genocide. Genocide is a very specific term. What you defined is simply ethnic cleansing. It would have been genocide if Greeks made a conscious effort to wipe out the entire Turkish race (which is clearly untrue).

well they are same race so they are like same , e.g azeris are turks but they are from the land called azerbaijan thats why we call them azeri turks , we can call them turks but people will think turks in turkiye

wow..someone has a lot to say.

Because I like things said as they are, you need to hear a holistic view without any fanfares.

1. Yes I am saying Greeks didn't kill many many cypriots, because Greeks were NOT on the island. Greek cypriots were. Greek cypriots are NOT the same as Greeks, as Turkish-cypriots are NOT the same as Turks.

2. A genocide is an indiscriminate slaughter of every living soul belonging to a particular ethnicity. That is not what happened on Cyprus.

3. I don't want you to think, I am avoiding the issue. Yes, a lot of turkish-cypriots were killied. Needlessly, and they were innocent. And I feel bad for all Greek-cypriots who had anything to do with it. But that is NOT genocide. Quite frankly, it is civil war.

4. There was a lot of political turmoil back then. Not different to what was going on in Yugoslavia just before it was broken up.

5. Did the turkish invasion save turkish-cypriot lives. Probably yes. Did it make things better for the Turkish-cypriots in the long run. Probably not.

6. You need to contemplate on how was the Turkish army able to carry out an invasion in such a short notice!! Surely it would take longer if they were simply reacting to the events. My opinion is that the Turkish leadership is not made up of fools. Never was. They knew what was coming and didn't act to prevent it, only because it suited their goals. What were these? To annex the island.

7. Why is Greece to blame? Because Greece had a military government which had some very shady dealing in the para-political stage .


Where did all this mess get us ? Were we are today. An island divided, and some very unhappy people. Guess who these are!
 
russia isnt successor to russian empire? who is rwanda? ghana? obviously russia is succesor to russian empire and soviet union just as we are successor to great seljuk empire and ottoman empire etc



well they are same race so they are like same , e.g azeris are turks but they are from the land called azerbaijan thats why we call them azeri turks , we can call them turks but people will think turks in turkiye

I mean legally. Russian Federation is not legally a successor state. Turkey is legally a successor state. Look it up.

Ok, so what is your point about Azeris being Turks. Don't you agree with me that what happened to them can't be considered Gencoide?
 
numbers dont matter imo , did you try to wipe out the azeri turks in NK?

really , russia is not legally successor , isit because Soviet union was inbetween?
 
numbers dont matter imo , did you try to wipe out the azeri turks in NK?

really , russia is not legally successor , isit because Soviet union was inbetween?

No. Soviet Union was not legal successor to Russian Empire either. Just look it up if you really want to know. Till then, just take my word for it.

Your opinion is irrelevant. The definition of genocide is: "the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group." That's it. It doesn't say "in a particular area." It simply refers to the race worldwide.

But your right, numbers don't matter. It is the percentage that matters. If it is a blatant majority (Armenian case) then it is genocide. If it is 600/35000000, then it is obviously not.
 
so then your claim of AG is wrong because im sure there was armenians in other parts of the world that we didnt kill or tried to , e.g german nazis killed jews in many different countries
 
so then your claim of AG is wrong because im sure there was armenians in other parts of the world that we didnt kill or tried to , e.g german nazis killed jews in many different countries

I was hoping you would ask that!

No, Ottoman Armenians made up the VAST percentage of Armenians worldwide. Seriously, there was like less than 2-3% of Armenians outside of Ottoman Empire in the 19th century (when genocides began). Therefore, killing of Ottoman Armenians still consisted of killing a majority of Armenians on the planet.
 
Where did the today's Ottoman Armenians came from then ? there is millions of them.
 
amalakas, we don't want to invade or attack Greece. That would just be stupid. However, you guys on the other hand flinch every time we make a fast move. :) It just kills us... We roll on the floor, laugh and crap. Ridiculous really. We have fun with you guys. So much fun :D

Greeks are on autopilot these days. Eg: Germany says austerity, Greece says non EU member Turkey does not abide by EU laws :cheesy:
Turkey builds a small commando hovercraft, Greece says Turkey is going to invade a Greek island.
Turkey decides to upgrade her military, Greece believes it must save Christianity by protecting the European mainland from so called and labelled Mongols.
 
Believe me nobody wants to invade Greece or something like that(some thinks taking the islands would be good though :D), people is mocking about taking Greece etc. because Greeks trying to hold a military piss contest with Turkey , so its just simply mocking nobody seriously thinking about invading Greece, some nutcases may be, absolutely a little minority.

It's funny because it is soooo utterly moronic to think that Greece has any value to Turkey. The only realistic way Turkey will attack Greece is if the Greeks destroy the economic advantage that Istanbul gives to Turkey which can only be done if the Greeks act upon increasing their sea borders from 6nm to 12nm since that will prevent any and all free maritime activity (inbound and outbound maritime traffic in this scenario will need permission from Greece to enter Greek waters on their way to Istanbul) which Turkey will never allow.

The other realistic scenario in which Turkey takes military action against Greece is if Greece along with their murderous half nation Cypriot Greek brothers and the financial donation capitol (Israel) of the world take measures implementing their EEZ (which is all illegal since all nations in the region that will be affected by an EEZ must unilaterally agree on an EEZ which Lebanon does not (in regards to financial donation capitol Israel and Turkey certainly does not (in regards to Cyprus and Greece))).

Greece is bankrupt, backwards and people are in line for food handouts, this is in my opinion is more powerful then any tank/combat aircraft since any invader must be in a position to feed these people :lol:

Many Muslim countries have close relationship with Greece. Your comment makes no sense.

Arabs and Persians are closer to Greece than Turkey.

However, we Pakistanis have a very soft corner for our Turkish Brothers.

But that does not mean we don't like Greeks.




I am advising our Turkish Brothers to Invest in Greek Economy. That would be good for Greek Economy, NO ?;)


Maybe such a move will bring our Greek Friends and our Turkish Brothers closer.:smitten:

No need to encourage what is already a reality. The UN itself has stated if any bothers to go through the UN archives that Greece will be economically dependent on Turkey by 2050 given it's shrinking demographics and the rising demographics/average internal investment levels over a decade of Turkey.

Yes...Turkey is wrong on every count....

and Armenia is wrong on it's bogus claims of genocide, it's actions during the cold war when terrorist monkeys known as ASALA from your country spread terror across Turkish communities in the world by killing innocent diplomats and their families. Armenia is a disgusting country that has statues of these animals and worships them as heroes, it is also the most corrupt country in the world and is rules mostly by gangs while historians even those who are pro Armenian find themselves locked up and thrown into jail if they even attempt to remove a single book from Armenia (fearing the revelations of your BS claims).

I dare ya, go on prove me wrong & please don't forget to tell us about the Armenian Soviet Encyclopedia circa 1965 and how it's stories of Turkish brutality "inspired" so many witnesses to come forth regarding what they suffered at the hands of the Turks during 50 to 80 years prior.

Go on, go on oh please do support the Russian propaganda document intended to make you into sheep and hate the Turk rather then your communist masters.

But that is the issue. Turkey's foreign ambitions are incompatible with that of its neighbors. IMO, Greece needs to be more wary of Turkish encroachment. Look at what happened in Georgian Adjara: there are so many Turks there now that officials fear race riots.

You forgot to mention the Armenian party you have in Georgia who wishes to directly add Georgian land into Armenia & this is a publicly stated goal from this group of Armenians. Your selective amnesia and bias is clearly showing on this thread.

Sir Greece has equally strong Armed Forces and in case of any kind of war weather big or small you will have to fight really hard to win the war

Greece's armed forces are not experienced in actual warfare dear friend and neither do they have the industry to support a long term fight, just a few weeks ago it was revealed that Greece only has a week's worth of ammunition for their tanks while the older platforms that are still in use do not have any ammunition what so ever other then what is currently in the vehicle.

In a "big" war I think Greece will find her land based assets quickly demolished and their tactics for naught considering that Greece only "purchases" while Turkey develops her capabilities both in the defense and offense and nothing that Greece has at the moment can escape/adequately defend against the Turkish developed SOM, add to this equation the F-35 with it's network capable radar and situational awareness it gives to C&C it paints a rather grim picture for Greece if she is moronic enough to goto war against Turkey.
 
I thought things are going well between Greece and Turkey. Turkey should focus on Syria now instead of Greece. If Turkey mess up, it will invite a Russian invasion in line with Georgia. And don't expect US to do anything about it until Russian troops approach Bosporus. The Anatolia interior is not part of Nato.

Are you trying to be funny? Russia's land based forces are not larger then Turkey's, her navy has more firepower but in numbers they are also smaller then Turkey while an attack on Turkey is an attack on NATO (Russia's air force is not even 1/10th of NATO). Seriously people who think Russia with it's aging demographics and increasing HIV epidemic (while having an economy the size of France) is still a major world threat?? To those of you my reply is: :rofl:

I am old enough to remember the USSR & that is the Russian bear, today's Russia is a pathetic shadow of it's former self with her hopes and dreams of unquestioned supremacy against her neighbors being pinned on the yet to be proven PAK-50.

If you want to see a comparison of today's Russia with NATO then have a look at their tanks, while NATO nations have moved on and use automatic turrets on their tanks the Russian still use manned machine gun nests on their tanks and they still pack as much missiles on their ships as possible, essentially their tactics remain garbage :rofl:

The only thing Russia has that we all still fear is a massive stockpile of nukes and this is why putty putty Putin is so dead set against the idea of a European missile shield even threatening to knock out said missile shield assets.

Russia strong = :rofl:
 
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