Graphic Content Warning: Hallway footage obtained in Uvalde school shooting

[Gomig-21]

Speaking from experience - policing is hard work and in hindsight everyone is an expert and can put holes in people's actions.

100% true. It's very easy to sit back in our comfy homes and criticize a difficult job where in reality, these people are putting their lives on the line every day.

But they did choose the job, so it doesn't mean they're allowed to do it half-***, either. Especially when that job gives them a lot of authority over the average citizen.

The other problem (which doesn't necessarily absolve them of all responsibilities) is the training they get at the academy. It really isn't sufficient. If you took a series of let's say 10 questions regarding basic laws of let's say, what are lawful directives and what are not, and others that question lawful ID requests as another example and ask 10 misc. cops the same questions, I guarantee you the majority of them would get nearly all of them wrong. Also, distinguishing policy procedure vs if they are constitutional or not.

For example, mayors or city officials will put up signs in many public areas or federal buildings (which are also public areas) that are deemed "policy" but are unconstitutional. So when there's a problem with let's say a public employee wants a citizen trespassed from a public place or building because the individual is wearing a shirt that has a profanity on it and calls the cops. The cops show up and take that employee's word and posted "policy" as law, while completely dismissing the constitutionality of that policy and employee demand and immediately attempt to trespass the individual instead of knowing that the citizen has certain unalienable rights that trump any unlawful policy. Where is the balanced investigation and understanding of that citizen's constitutional rights? They don't have the ability to decern what is lawful under the constitution vs unlawful policy. This is a major cause of many lawsuits that cost the cities all across the US millions upon millions of dollars. So many issues that need addressing, well beyond the one at hand on this thread lol.

They get great weapons training, lots of time at the range, lots of time with dogs for canine units, lots of training that involve those physical disciplines. But other very important things like basic rights and investigative skills and procedures are very lacking, unfortunately.

 

[kingQamaR]

Training for all US police has for over a decade been to engage active shooters. No matter what it takes. You dont wait. You dont set up a perimeter. Even if you are one cop with a handgun: you engage. Either these cops didnt know that, or were cowards.

 

[kingQamaR]

I wasn't talking about departmental leadership, I was referring to on-sight leadership. On the scene of policing events, there always seems to be a leadership problem where too many cops are barking orders and often times contradicting one another etc. and disorganized chaos.

There needs to be a clear way of establishing a component of the force which whenever it shows up on scene, it takes over the lead role and control of the situation instead of all units there doing their own thing. That's what I was referring to and you can clearly see that chaos happening in this case.

The officers responsible for doing nothing should be charged with a dereliction of duty.

 

[jhungary]

So sad to see this, as I said before it must be heartbreaking for the victims and their families to watch this.

They (cops) had numerical superiority and superior firepower, as you said, stack breach, bang and double tap the fucker.

Just look at all the kit they had, the average US cop is better equipped than the average British infantry soldier lol.

We hosted some American cops here in the UK as part of the IPA (Intl Pol Association) exchange program and the US cops couldn't understand how we police without guns.

The visiting cops couldn't understand why or how British cops police without guns on a daily basis.

Thing is, comparing the UK to US policing model is an unfair comparison because the amount of handguns in the UK is lower compared to the US, whilst we do have firearms incidents these are few and far between.

But our cops do tend to be a little more rational and proactive, I fear in the US a lot of people become cops because they are what we in England call "badge heavy".

Marauding attacker - how it's handled in the UK - police officer BWV:

I was exchanged to NSW (that's why I worked with NSW Police as an American cop) with the International Police Association exchange program.


Well, most cop in the State would have wonder why anyone would go on duty without a piece. On the other hand, a lot of American cops (like myself) would also question why people tend to resist arrest more outside US. In the US, when a cop raise their weapon and told you to do something, you do that or you get shot (well, at least used to be, now doing so may attract lawsuit) in place like NSW, that was merely a suggestion.

Problem is, there are different parameter in the US and in Australia, for example, for Firearms violence, gang violence and so on, there can never be a comparison with any Policing model with different part of the world, we have that service with our world for a reason.


Most people work as a cop in the US usually have serve and protect in mind. Not a whole lot were there because they wanted to attract to badge bunnies. In the old days with my class in Police Academy, the first class they had us visit the Police Association Museum, in there, there were a memorial for Officer Vaird that was killed in the line of duty back in the 90s, they force you to look at the blood stained clothes Ofc Vaird was wearing, and tell you that you may end up like this. That is probably the best reckoning there are to see if you are doing this for whatever reason other than ready to lay down your own life for other, you probably need to go now.

I wasn't talking about departmental leadership, I was referring to on-sight leadership. On the scene of policing events, there always seems to be a leadership problem where too many cops are barking orders and often times contradicting one another etc. and disorganized chaos.

There needs to be a clear way of establishing a component of the force which whenever it shows up on scene, it takes over the lead role and control of the situation instead of all units there doing their own thing. That's what I was referring to and you can clearly see that chaos happening in this case.

Thing is, leadership don't applies to all event.

In this case, regardless of rank and regardless of department, you are supposed to form a team with whoever and go in and neutralise the suspect from the get go, this is taught after Columbine in most (can't say it was taught in all department, as I don't really know) You get 4 men, I don't care if they are chief of police with the local PD, or mall cop or transit cop or a detective, you go in and neutralise or at least attempt to intervene the situation.

This particular case all gone down hill when they were literally "Beaten Back" by the string of gun fire when the cop were outside the door, from then on, it go downhill.

Don't you see they are all over weight and frightened not want to risk their lives at all, what bunch of cowards.

don't think being overweight have any bearing with being a coward.

But then these people just make me feel sick. As a cop myself over a decade. I was stunned how they handled this.

 

[jhungary]

Are you Chinese?

what's that have to do with anything??

 

[aziqbal]

Americans are inherently violent people

a nation who killed 60 million native Americans which lead to decrease in CO2 levels and even effected global climate so many died

then they enslaved 40 million Africans over 400 year period

then for last 75 years they been stealing from other nations

so how can this be a righteous nation

 

[jhungary]

Americans are inherently violent people

a nation who killed 60 million native Americans which lead to decrease in CO2 levels and even effected global climate so many died

then they enslaved 40 million Africans over 400 year period

then for last 75 years they been stealing from other nations

so how can this be a righteous nation

Please DO NOT use this thread to score political point.

 

[KendoKhan]

I was exchanged to NSW (that's why I worked with NSW Police as an American cop) with the International Police Association exchange program.


Well, most cop in the State would have wonder why anyone would go on duty without a piece. On the other hand, a lot of American cops (like myself) would also question why people tend to resist arrest more outside US. In the US, when a cop raise their weapon and told you to do something, you do that or you get shot (well, at least used to be, now doing so may attract lawsuit) in place like NSW, that was merely a suggestion.

Problem is, there are different parameter in the US and in Australia, for example, for Firearms violence, gang violence and so on, there can never be a comparison with any Policing model with different part of the world, we have that service with our world for a reason.


Most people work as a cop in the US usually have serve and protect in mind. Not a whole lot were there because they wanted to attract to badge bunnies. In the old days with my class in Police Academy, the first class they had us visit the Police Association Museum, in there, there were a memorial for Officer Vaird that was killed in the line of duty back in the 90s, they force you to look at the blood stained clothes Ofc Vaird was wearing, and tell you that you may end up like this. That is probably the best reckoning there are to see if you are doing this for whatever reason other than ready to lay down your own life for other, you probably need to go now.


Thing is, leadership don't applies to all event.

In this case, regardless of rank and regardless of department, you are supposed to form a team with whoever and go in and neutralise the suspect from the get go, this is taught after Columbine in most (can't say it was taught in all department, as I don't really know) You get 4 men, I don't care if they are chief of police with the local PD, or mall cop or transit cop or a detective, you go in and neutralise or at least attempt to intervene the situation.

This particular case all gone down hill when they were literally "Beaten Back" by the string of gun fire when the cop were outside the door, from then on, it go downhill.


don't think being overweight have any bearing with being a coward.

But then these people just make me feel sick. As a cop myself over a decade. I was stunned how they handled this.

Thank you for such a detailed and informative post. I particularly like the idea of visiting the police museum and driving home the 1*(1 *** to risk) mentality home for fresh faced recruits.