Govt scraps single-engine fighters plan, asks IAF to go for wider competition

[Śakra]

Nautankia.

 

[ziaulislam]

Modi is just preparing the ground for procuring F-35s.

Single engine, Twin Engine, Super Sukhoi programs have all been scrapped.

In the next few weeks he is going to scrap the FGFA (PAK-FA/SU-57) program with Russia.

Once FGFA is scrapped, US would be providing the formal proposal for selling F-35s to India.

India would be procuring

--126 F-35As for IAF's New MMRCA program
-- 57 F-35C & F-35B for Indian Navy's MRCBF program
26 F-35Bs for INS Vikrant (STOBAR+ STOVL)
31 F-35C for INS Vishal( (CATOBAR with EMALS)

would be smart move as well
f35 if inducted in large numbers>250, will not only cost less(<25-30billion dollars)but will also give IAF a chance against Chinese onslaught of 500 J20 by 2030, otherwise PLAAF is going to literally eat up IAF

 

[TopCat]

An honest advice India should stick to Tejas and try to mass produce even if it require foreign components.

 

[shootingstar]

would be smart move as well
f35 if inducted in large numbers>250, will not only cost less(<25-30billion dollars)but will also give IAF a chance against Chinese onslaught of 500 J20 by 2030, otherwise PLAAF is going to literally eat up IAF

Actually, F-35 unit price is expected to hit ~$80 million by 2020. 200 of these would cost ~$16 Billion. The main issue would be there would be zero ToT. Hence India is planning to continue partnering with Dassault on RAFALE to get ToT for AMCA.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Actually, F-35 unit price is expected to hit ~$80 million by 2020. 200 of these would cost ~$16 Billion. The main issue would be there would be zero ToT. Hence India is planning to continue partnering with Dassault on RAFALE to get ToT for AMCA.

80 million is a bit far fetched...

And even if it does come down to 80 million... it will never cost 16 billion... unless you get the jets off the shelf... without buy any spares,developing any infrastructure support,arms,trainin etc.

 

[shootingstar]

80 million is a bit far fetched...

And even if it does come down to 80 million... it will never cost 16 billion... unless you get the jets off the shelf... without buy any spares,developing any infrastructure support,arms,trainin etc.

Yes. I was only estimating the fighter acquisition costs. Weapons, Spares, Service, Training and Infrastructure could take the whole deal to over $30 billion.

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2017/10/24/pentagon-kicks-off-intensive-f-35-cost-review/

Pentagon kicks off intensive F-35 cost review
By: Valerie Insinna   October 24, 2017

Pentagon’s F-35 deep dive to drive lower costs on block buy deal
The Pentagon’s director of defense pricing is helping the joint program office nail down a better deal on a block buy.

By: Valerie Insinna
While Assad has a cost-savings target in mind, he declined to share that number, saying he wants to ensure it’s feasible before publicly releasing how much he will expect the price of F-35 production and sustainment to decrease.

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“What are the opportunities and do they believe that they can realistically implement [them]? There’s no sense creating goals that are fiction. I don’t believe in that kind of stuff,” he said.

However, Assad noted that he thinks Lockheed can bring unit costs down even further than its current goal: an $80 million F-35A conventional takeoff and landing model by 2020.

“I think our view is we believe there is opportunity in the entire chain, from Lockheed Martin to Northrop to BAE to their subcontractors. We want to work with the companies collaboratively to get on that path for improvement,” he said.

Assad announced the deep-dive review in March, saying he hoped it would help the department learn where to de-layer the supply chain and push companies to invest their own funds on cost-cutting improvements to the manufacturing process.


Top Pentagon official takes aim at F-35 cost, supply chain
Shay Assad made it clear he expects companies to do more to reduce costs.

By: Aaron Mehta
In September, Vice Adm. Mat Winter, head of the F-35 joint program office, said Assad’s work had already begun influencing the contract negotiations for an international block buy encompassing lots 12, 13 and 14.

“He continues to provide valuable information to the [program executive officer] to better inform my production negotiations with Lockheed Martin Aero,” Winter said. “You can read into that however you want. I can’t give you any more details on that right now.”



http://money.cnn.com/2017/06/19/news/companies/lockheed-martin-f35-fighter-jet-deal/index.html

Lockheed close to massive F-35 fighter jet deal with 11 nations

by Thom Patterson @CNNMoneyJune 19, 2017: 7:52 AM ET

Trump says this fighter jet is too expensive

Lockheed Martin is close to winning the orders it needs to rapidly produce the F-35 fighter, the most expensive weapons system in U.S. history.

The aircraft maker is nearing a deal worth between $35 billion and $40 billion to supply 440 F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter jets to the United States and 10 allied nations over the next several years, Lockheed (LMT) executive Jeff Babione said on Monday at the Paris Air Show.


"This more than doubles the total amount of airplanes under contract, and that we'll be building," Babione said of the agreement with governments to ramp up production of the world's most sophisticated fighter jet.



The deal promises big economic benefits. It would secure jobs at Lockheed and international partner factories in Texas, Italy and Japan, where more than 140 jets are now in production. The deal would support about 150,000 jobs worldwide connected to the program and a projected 200,000 jobs that eventually would be added, Babione said.

If concluded, the agreement would bring much needed relief to Lockheed's troubled program, which carries an estimated total cost of $400 billion. The company has been under pressure from President Trump to lower the price tag of each individual plane.

Trump has made no secret about his dislike for expensive government aircraft programs. In April, he touted his prowess as a negotiator and promised to save money on the expensive F-35. His comments followed a statement from Lockheed in February that credited Trump for helping to accelerate negotiations.

Related: How the Paris Air Show made history

"This was a thing that was out of control and now it's great," President Trump said at the time. Trump was given credit by Lockheed executives for securing a lower price on the most recent deal, but estimates by Pentagon officials prior to Trump's election victory closely match the agreed price.

The proposed deal includes all three variations of the sophisticated fifth generation stealth fighter, including the F-35 B variant -- which is able to hover -- for the U.S. Marine Corps and U.K's Royal Navy.

Falling cost per plane

The cost of each F-35 has now dipped below $95 million, Lockheed said Monday. The company hopes to eventually get that down to $85 million in a few years.

The news emerged at the Paris Air Show, a gigantic aviation industry event at which aircraft makers show off their new planes to potential buyers. Itt's a welcome change for supporters of the F-35, who've endured a series of recent disappointments.

A unit of the jets at Luke Air Force Base was grounded after pilots reported problems with cockpit oxygen systems.

Related: Countries flex their military muscle in Paris

In April, a report from the congressional Government Accountability Office watchdog group recommended that the Pentagon refrain from making "significant new investments" in the fighter jet until the entire testing process is finished.

Testing is now 90% complete. Full rate production of the aircraft, which is scheduled for April 2019, could cost the U.S. Department of Defense more than a billion dollars more than what was budgeted in 2011 when the program was restructured.

The F-35 is the nation's most sophisticated fighter jet, outfitted with stealth technology and a cockpit helmet display that allows pilots to virtually see through the airplane at targets on the ground below.

-- CNN's Zachary Cohen and Ryan Browne contributed to this report.



CNNMoney (Paris)First published June 19, 2017: 4:11 AM ET

 

[Imran Khan]

they have no clue what they are doing is like headless chicken

 

[Shiroyama]

LOL supa powa indiots are masters of failure. Sometimes I wonder if Pakistan's ISI has actually infiltrated India's military programs. I mean come on there's only two possible conclusions here.

Either ISI has sabotaged their R&D with double agents or indiots really are that pathetic, delusional and ignorant. And then these losers will say something like, "well this is just the 1st stage, the second stage will be better."

Using your logic then RAW penetration of Pakistan military must be far greater since Pakistan has managed to build up an inventory of a mere 172 4th gen jets, whereas Indian Luftwaffe & kreigsmarine has 400 4th gen jets.

 

[Novice09]

An honest advice India should stick to Tejas and try to mass produce even if it require foreign components.

GoI has decided to have tejas as the single engine platform for IAF...

However the urgent and critical requirment of fighter jets by IAF is forcing the GoI to go for new jets...

These new jets could b SU-57 or Rafale for IAF...
F-35, S Hornet or Rafale-M for Navy...
MiG-29K r real pain and Indian Navy n gov r shocked with the issues the jet have.

Therefor no further Russian jet except FGFA and if FGFA is materialized IAF can go for SU-57.

they have no clue what they are doing is like headless chicken

Yes I do agree with u on this point...
Good for u...

I think you know what negotiation means?
We dont have the leverage of getting loans at high rate of interest.

 

[Imran Khan]

Yes I do agree with u on this point...
Good for u...

I think you know what negotiation means?
We dont have the leverage of getting loans at high rate of interest.

man watching this boring drama since mother of all defense deals times back in early 2000s

 

[Novice09]

man watching this boring drama since mother of all defense deals times back in early 2000s

Still all manufacturers are lined up at are door... becasue we BUY...
Since we dont get donations to buy them, we have to look at our budget and have to make a balance between our need, resources and national interest. On top of that we have a political and beaurocratic system which is slow (earliar it was toooooo slow).
Buy with Modi G at top we are improving on that front... let us see how things develop from here...

 

[Imran Khan]

Still all manufacturers are lined up at are door... becasue we BUY...
Since we dont get donations to buy them, we have to look at our budget and have to make a balance between our need, resources and national interest. On top of that we have a political and beaurocratic system which is slow (earliar it was toooooo slow).
Buy with Modi G at top we are improving on that front... let us see how things develop from here...

ghanta you buy and no one is lined up

in last 15 years so much of drama from india and you buy only few rafales more then your dream other countries have buy in this times let me remind you KSA buy f-15 and EU fighters massive numbers in these times china hav went to 5th generation fighters f-35 have been taken by partners of program
under modi you guys have more backchodi then before that is only change and here is something for you to read mr donation . in fact you guys have no money to buy which your own ministers admit . all this drama is to keep you guys warm



http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...36-rafales-no-need-for-126/article7268264.ece

https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...ks-congress/story-pbXWlsNgdt3veDo5HLyULJ.html

 

[SorryNotSorry]

Might be to make space for the FGFA? Or maybe the F-35? This has been stretched out for too long now.

 

[Jugger]

IAF needs the numbers for defence against Chinese aggression , we require more numbers of 4th gen multirole aircrafts and atleast 2 squadrons of 5th gen aircraft for effective defence and offence.

 

[Han Patriot]

Modi is just preparing the ground for procuring F-35s.

Single engine, Twin Engine, Super Sukhoi programs have all been scrapped.

In the next few weeks he is going to scrap the FGFA (PAK-FA/SU-57) program with Russia.

Once FGFA is scrapped, US would be providing the formal proposal for selling F-35s to India.

India would be procuring

--126 F-35As for IAF's New MMRCA program
-- 57 F-35C & F-35B for Indian Navy's MRCBF program
26 F-35Bs for INS Vikrant (STOBAR+ STOVL)
31 F-35C for INS Vishal( (CATOBAR with EMALS)

Damn, you guys can spin any shit into haagen daz.

Tejas needs at least another decade or two to mature. Until then India would be importing fighters. What is your question? How is Tejas related to this thread?

A decade or 2....by then it's hyperwarp age. It would be a 50 year old design.