'Govt may go in for compulsory military service'

[Flintlock]

'Govt may go in for compulsory military service'
15 Jan 2008, 0001 hrs IST,Rajat Pandit,TNN

NEW DELHI: Is compulsory military service the answer to the woes of the Army, which is fighting a losing battle on two fronts? On one side, it's not managing to attract enough bright youngsters for its officer cadre and on the other, it's haemorrhaging under the onslaught of serving officers wanting to jump the ship.

Now, perhaps for the first time, a serving Indian Army chief has hinted that compulsory military service — in other words, conscription — may have to be seriously considered in the near future if present trends continue. "If things don't improve, the government may have to take a view on it," said General Deepak Kapoor on Monday, after being asked if conscription was the answer to the crippling shortage of officers in the 1.13-million strong Army.

Though the General was quick to point out that "we have not come to that stage yet", things don't look too good for the force. The latest statistics show the Army is grappling with a shortage of 11,238 officers in an "authorized" strength of 46,615. To top that, around 3,000 officers have applied for premature retirement just since 2004.

 

[Flintlock]

Oops, sorry, wrong section!! Please shift this to the appropriate one. Thanks.

Most of the talent is being soaked up by Private companies.

The army pays peanuts in comparison with MNCs, and 20 year insurgency in Kashmir isn't helping either. Its a hard, thankless job, and no one wants to do it.

Besides, most Indians aren't very patriotic.

New Delhi, Jan 14 (PTI) With a shortage of over 11,000 officers plaguing the Indian Army, the Government has taken up the issue of better pay-package to fresh recruits in order to bring in the best of the talent to the nation's defence forces.
"We have a shortage of 11,200 officers. Our source is the youth of this country, which is getting attracted by the better pay-packets offered by the corporate world," Army Chief Gen Deepak Kapoor told reporters on the eve of 60th Army Day being held tomorrow.

Gen Kapoor said while the Army could not lower its standards of recruitment, it, along with the Defence Ministry, had taken up this issue strongly with the Sixth Pay Commission.

"I hope these problems will be looked into by the sixth pay commission so that we get the required manpower," he said.

Asked whether there was a need for having a policy on making military training compulsory in the nation, the Army Chief said: "we have not come to that stage. However, if we reach, it was for the Government to take the decision...But I do not think we will have such a situation." PTI

Difficult to believe, but a country of 1.2bn people is facing a talent shortage.

 

[blain2]

'Govt may go in for compulsory military service'
15 Jan 2008, 0001 hrs IST,Rajat Pandit,TNN

NEW DELHI: Is compulsory military service the answer to the woes of the Army, which is fighting a losing battle on two fronts? On one side, it's not managing to attract enough bright youngsters for its officer cadre and on the other, it's haemorrhaging under the onslaught of serving officers wanting to jump the ship.

Now, perhaps for the first time, a serving Indian Army chief has hinted that compulsory military service — in other words, conscription — may have to be seriously considered in the near future if present trends continue. "If things don't improve, the government may have to take a view on it," said General Deepak Kapoor on Monday, after being asked if conscription was the answer to the crippling shortage of officers in the 1.13-million strong Army.

Though the General was quick to point out that "we have not come to that stage yet", things don't look too good for the force. The latest statistics show the Army is grappling with a shortage of 11,238 officers in an "authorized" strength of 46,615. To top that, around 3,000 officers have applied for premature retirement just since 2004.

Although extremely unlikely, if this were to happen, it would be the death of
a fine tradition. Just can't see IA or PA going the way of conscription based on what the other Armies who have gone from professional to conscription models have learned.

 

[Flintlock]

Although extremely unlikely, if this were to happen, it would be the death of
a fine tradition. Just can't see IA or PA going the way of conscription based on what the other Armies who have gone from professional to conscription models have learned.

I am hoping that the 6th pay commission does something spectacular.

Perhaps a 5 to 6 fold increase in salaries.

The Army used to attract talent, because it was a well paying respectable job.

Not any more....nowadays, people laugh at you if you want to join the army.

The culture has changed, and serving your country is considered naive and "uncool".

 

[blain2]

Oops, sorry, wrong section!! Please shift this to the appropriate one. Thanks.

Most of the talent is being soaked up by Private companies.

The army pays peanuts in comparison with MNCs, and 20 year insurgency in Kashmir isn't helping either. Its a hard, thankless job, and no one wants to do it.

Besides, most Indians aren't very patriotic.



Difficult to believe, but a country of 1.2bn people is facing a talent shortage.

I work with Indian nationals a lot who come over to the West. Even if you add the number of IT professionals inside of India to those going overseas, I just can't see how there could be a shortage of suitable candidates for the likes of IMA/NDA etc.

In my opinion, the problem is with the recruitment. I could buy that keeping the folks in is an issue to some extent due to the lure of the MNCs, but not getting anyone to join from the get-go seems like a failure on the part of the recruitment efforts...maybe some more money should be pumped into the program to glitz it up a bit.

I am not sure how common the concept of Military Colleges (Cadet Colleges) is in India...in Pakistan, these sources continue to provide a steady intake into the Services Academies even when the lure of foreign jobs and now the MNCs in Pakistan has become more prominent. I am sure the problem has more complications, but I would think that there would be quite a few options before going down the conscription path.

 

[blain2]

I am hoping that the 6th pay commission does something spectacular.

Perhaps a 5 to 6 fold increase in salaries.

The Army used to attract talent, because it was a well paying respectable job.

Not any more....nowadays, people laugh at you if you want to join the army.

The culture has changed, and serving your country is considered naive and "uncool".

If you ask me, the sub-continental Armies for the most part were never well known for paying their officers well. It was the overall package that sort of did the trick for most, although most joined for reasons other than pay (I know things have changed here in Pakistan as well as in India now).

Also a 5 to 6 fold increase in salaries will only do so much (its good to take care of inflation and the usual cost of living increases) however given the fact that the going rate for a job in a MNC or even the local companies competing with the MNCs would be astronomically higher than what a government job can offer, even a 5-6 fold increase (which I highly doubt) is no guarantee that this lack of interest can be arrested. The issue of dissatisfaction with less pay will always be there. The key is to develop appropriate intake streams and do a better job of forecasting (something that we have to do even in the large scale private sector companies).

 

[Flintlock]

I work with Indian nationals a lot who come over to the West. Even if you add the number of IT professionals inside of India to those going overseas, I just can't see how there could be a shortage of suitable candidates for the likes of IMA/NDA etc.

Well, lets face it. Indians aren't a very sporting people.

Most Indians would prefer a desk job over something that requires physical effort.

The recruitment standards of the Indian army are extremely high. Lakhs of applications come through each year for the officer's posts, but most are rejected because the candidates are simply not good enough.

The fault lies partly with the educational system, where sports and games are discouraged.

In my opinion, the problem is with the recruitment. I could buy that keeping the folks in is an issue to some extent due to the lure of the MNCs, but not getting anyone to join from the get-go seems like a failure on the part of the recruitment efforts...maybe some more money should be pumped into the program to glitz it up a bit.

I don't think the fault lies with recruitment. Army has done a huge effort to promote the army.
But people are smart, and they can see throuth all the glitz.

Moreover, corruption, which was almost non-existent earlier, has also increased in recent years, thanks to a frustrated section of officers who feel underpaid and have failed to make it to higher ranks.

I am not sure how common the concept of Military Colleges (Cadet Colleges) is in India...in Pakistan, these sources continue to provide a steady intake into the Services Academies even when the lure of foreign jobs and now the MNCs in Pakistan has become more prominent. I am sure the problem has more complications, but I would think that there would be quite a few options before going down the conscription path.

India also has National Cadet Corps, but I'm not sure that many people actually join.
In my school atleast, most parents sent their obese kids for NCC to lose weight, not to join the army.

I don't think we have military colleges in India, apart from NDA perhaps.

There are lots of Army Schools, but they are just like any other schools, and don't focus much on army training.

 

[Flintlock]

If you ask me, the sub-continental Armies for the most part were never well known for paying their officers well. It was the overall package that sort of did the trick for most, although most joined for reasons other than pay (I know things have changed here in Pakistan as well as in India now).

Yeah, the package, and also the pay. They never paid much, but nevertheless was the second most highly paid job in India after the civil services, before the economy opened up.

But nowadays even the standard of living in private has gone up. Facilities like parks, swimming pools, playgrounds, golf courses etc. are being provided by private developers also.

So there nothing that the army offers, which cannot be availed of in the private sector.

Also a 5 to 6 fold increase in salaries will only do so much (its good to take care of inflation and the usual cost of living increases) however given the fact that the going rate for a job in a MNC or even the local companies competing with the MNCs would be astronomically higher than what a government job can offer, even a 5-6 fold increase (which I highly doubt) is no guarantee that this lack of interest can be arrested. The issue of dissatisfaction with less pay will always be there. The key is to develop appropriate intake streams and do a better job of forecasting (something that we have to do even in the large scale private sector companies).

I think a 5-6 fold increase will, atleast for now, put the officer's rank on par with the neighborhood MNC.

A

 

[KENT]

From last couple of days, I have been regularly come across the promo of Indian Army with title "Harbingers of Peace and Stability" on NDTV. Then in today's morning, when I was skipping the pages of my daily newspaper DNA, I come across a page full of Name of those IA's martyers who sacrifice their life while fighting on the border for the year 2007. And in very adjescent page a page full of Indian Army Images which consits their weapons as well as their effort during the peace and rescue opertions, alongwith that Proclaimed was attached feautring India's President, Prime Minister, Army General and Defence Minister greeting Indian Army.
From this particuler section of the newspaper, I came to know about the celebration of Indian Army day on 15th January,2007.

Tregedy was that inspite being die hard fan of Indian Armed forces, I was so far unaware about the day on which we glorify the act of our valient soldiers.

Apart from major source of turnaround by the youngesters from joining Armed forces like Low paid, unsettle life as well as pressure of unprecedent amount decipline that is required to maintain while serving armed forces, there are all other sources as well as that is significiantly contributing towards unlikness of youngesters towards Army. This other sources consists of Unwillingness of parents to allow their spouces to join army like in my case, emergence of commercialisation like Television, Mobile phones, Movies etc. Lack of knowledge about procedure to be followed while applying as cadet in IA.

I think the only way out from this critical juncture is massive awareness by the media, like the one being pursuded by NDTV was regulerly showing a serial "Jai Javan" feautering the visit of Film celebraties to the bases of Army, Navy and Airforce. By taking into account the leverage of Media on ordinary people, media can definetly made a huge difference if they undertake the task of creating the massive awareness about India's Armed forces.

Our Indian Film Industry can also done a great job in this respect as well by considering it has also the equivelant amount of influence on people as Media. I know one of the Indian film "Boder" has inspired the youngsters to unprecedent extent, in fact I watch this movie on 50 to 60 occassions, but still my satisfaction with this movie doesn't get fulfilled, I still eager to watch this movie at every moment. This particuler movie has so great effect on youngsters mind which is evident form the fac that my entire group of friends decided to join army, but very few of us fulfill their dream of joining the army excluding me.

 

[su-47]

i am totally against conscription. It'll just make a lot of people resent the army, and any suggestion of conscription will result in violent protests all over the country.

The problem is that the army is not portraying itself as well as it used to. The increase in army salaries werent as much as that of in other job sectors off late. also, the average indian is becoming more materialistic. He is no longer willing to risk his neck for the pittance the army pays.

a short-term solution is to increase pay packages and advertise more. there are a lot of educated, yet unemployed young men who are struggling to earn a living, but havent thought of the army as an option. if the army can send out more recruitment officers to talk to young men at schools and colleges, they might consider a career in the army. The army should also portray itself in better light (instead of showing a lot of men armed with AK-47s, show some tanks, missiles, helis etc)

For a long-term solution, the army needs to slowly reduce its size, without decreasing offfensive or defensive capability. Over the next decade, if the army undergoes rapid modernisation, it can do the same amount of work and maintain or increase its capabilities with fewer men.

 

[Cheetah786]

I am hoping that the 6th pay commission does something spectacular.

Perhaps a 5 to 6 fold increase in salaries.

The Army used to attract talent, because it was a well paying respectable job.

Not any more....nowadays, people laugh at you if you want to join the army.

The culture has changed, and serving your country is considered naive and "uncool".

The pay difference in army and private sector is double average startup for a person in Indian army as an officer is about 8000/month private sector is twice that.IT guys programmers that is start from 29000/month i don't no if Indian army will compete with that.Indian army might have to do the same as Americans do offer incentives.

 

[Flintlock]

The pay difference in army and private sector is double average startup for a person in Indian army as an officer is about 8000/month private sector is twice that.IT guys programmers that is start from 29000/month i don't no if Indian army will compete with that.Indian army might have to do the same as Americans do offer incentives.

I think that by trimming the size of the army, India can afford to pay their officers as much as the private sector does.

Indian army has too much flab which has been inherited from the British.

It needs to be trimmed and made into a lethal fighting machine.

Massive incentives are already offered to officers actually. I don't know what else they can offer.

The only option is to make the pay package more attractive, and improve living and service conditions.

 

[Energon]

I don't see how something like this can possibly work in a country like India.
1. There will be no political will to enforce a program of this sort. Any administration that dares to do so will be promptly voted out of office either through a no confidence vote or during the next election.

2. Libertarianism runs far too deep in the society. If people can't be convinced to adhere to any from of standardization in the social or economic sphere, attempting to implement compulsory military service is a moot point.

3. There are a little over 100 million Indians between the ages of 15 and 19. Even if the population growth stabilizes and the military limits their policy to boys; the government needs to have the capacity to train and induct nothing less than 50 million people. I do not know of a single nation (let alone a developing one) that has the capacity to do this.

 

[blain2]

Well, lets face it. Indians aren't a very sporting people.

Most Indians would prefer a desk job over something that requires physical effort.

The recruitment standards of the Indian army are extremely high. Lakhs of applications come through each year for the officer's posts, but most are rejected because the candidates are simply not good enough.

The fault lies partly with the educational system, where sports and games are discouraged.



I don't think the fault lies with recruitment. Army has done a huge effort to promote the army.
But people are smart, and they can see throuth all the glitz.

Moreover, corruption, which was almost non-existent earlier, has also increased in recent years, thanks to a frustrated section of officers who feel underpaid and have failed to make it to higher ranks.



India also has National Cadet Corps, but I'm not sure that many people actually join.
In my school atleast, most parents sent their obese kids for NCC to lose weight, not to join the army.

I don't think we have military colleges in India, apart from NDA perhaps.

There are lots of Army Schools, but they are just like any other schools, and don't focus much on army training.

On the point of corruption, I think its pervasive in desi culture unfortunately..people of the sub-continent usually have this case of one upping the Joneses all the time so the greed and the need to make a quick buck will stick around until people look at things differently.

On the point about NCC, I am not sure what the state of NCC in India is, but in Pakistan, NCC is a joke. You get into NCC to fire a clip of rounds, wear a uniform and get your 2% marks. Cadet Colleges are in a different class altogether as most of the students are in these boarding schools/colleges to join the armed forces. Obviously you have the option to not go the military path and many choose not to, but these institutes give a pretty decent grounding and intake stream to the armed forces.

 

[Energon]

In my opinion, the problem is with the recruitment. I could buy that keeping the folks in is an issue to some extent due to the lure of the MNCs, but not getting anyone to join from the get-go seems like a failure on the part of the recruitment efforts...maybe some more money should be pumped into the program to glitz it up a bit.

It is highly unlikely that the government can do anything to directly compete with the private sector when it comes to reimbursement or general glitz. It is also clear that banking solely on the "Mera Bharat Mahan" factor is not enough as far as the educated middle class is concerned who also happen to be the primary source of the officer cadres. Unfortunately the vast portion of the population that lives in the underdeveloped rural areas and serve as the primary source of Jawans, do not as yet have the necessary tools (particularly good education) to qualify for officer training. This explains why the critical shortage is in the officer corps; who are essentially the backbone of Indian armed forces; unlike western/modern militaries where the majority of the workload is borne by the NCOs.

I am not sure how common the concept of Military Colleges (Cadet Colleges) is in India...in Pakistan, these sources continue to provide a steady intake into the Services Academies even when the lure of foreign jobs and now the MNCs in Pakistan has become more prominent. I am sure the problem has more complications, but I would think that there would be quite a few options before going down the conscription path.

The major difference is that in Pakistan the military is a very powerful and influential organization that also happens to be the premier national institution. It hence provides very good career opportunities for youngsters who don't migrate while in service and of course after retirement. This isn't the case for the Indian armed forces or any governmental institution for that matter. The rapidly growing globalized private sector has gone so far ahead that the massive (and highly inefficient) public sector of yesteryear is currently in a state of shock and besieged by all sorts of crisis because of their failure to adapt.

There are a few viable options that can be explored. I'll write more about them when I have a bit more time (and if anyone is interested).