Government wants to Arrest Pakistan Army Personnels

[blain2]

Another classic case of shooting from the hip. Realize what I have written. It pertains to the dubious heroic stories being peddled by self-serving politicians and journalists like Javaid Hashmi and Hamid Mir.
Exaggeration does not make the stories completely false.

How do I know? Put Kiyani up on trial as well all the while giving the likes of Rehman Malik a pass.
Yes, put everyone on trial. Zardari, NS, Kiyani, Musharaf, Rehman Malik etc

Start off with all the treasonous idiots in country and then you can worry about asking the already bankrupt country to fund another expensive foreign/Interpol intervention to sort out our own affairs.
Yes, I am with you. Start off from politicians to armed forces and industrialists.

So, you cannot solve missing people case because of the goddesses in the army. How could you ever solve this case where army is directly involved according to politicians. Had it been the U.S., where generals are not above the law than for sure we would have preferred an internal investigation. A country where you can impose emergencies, Marshal Laws, illegal acts, unconstitutional acts etc does not have a happy ending.
So, in conclusion I am fine with any investigation regarding politicians and/or army.

My mother's mamu was law minister during Zia Time (90 percent sure)

Okay for sure include the Army. However do you not see how and where the winds are blowing? All those waving the PPP flag will get a pass (all the talk shows and even one of the first post above are suggesting that). So where is this accountability across the board?

I am not lying, people on the streets of Lahore are already wondering when the Army will take over again given the current political situation and absolutely no faith in governance even though Army cannot fix anything. What I am stating here is simply the way the Pakistani public think. Instant gratification is the name of the game.

 

[sparklingway]

Before passing judgments on me, please read my post a few times. Its seems you have missed the entire point.

Maybe I have. Looks like you were commenting on the truthfulness of the episode instead of passing judgments. I was being judgmental. I apologize.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

Okay for sure include the Army. However do you not see how and where the winds are blowing? All those waving the PPP flag will get a pass (all the talk shows and even one of the first post above are suggesting that). So where is this accountability across the board?
I am not lying, people on the streets of Lahore are already wondering when the Army will take over again given the current political situation and absolutely no faith in governance even though Army cannot fix anything. What I am stating here is simply the way the Pakistani public think. Instant gratification is the name of the game.

Decisions are made by the courts not by the political leaders. Political show offs can have an impact on the courts but the current CJP resisted every pressure. Talk shows cannot decide anything other than giving an opinion. For me, CJP is doing the right thing i.e. justice without looking anyone.

CJP will not be biased at all.


I am not lying, people on the streets of Lahore are already wondering when the Army will take over again given the current political situation and absolutely no faith in governance even though Army cannot fix anything. What I am stating here is simply the way the Pakistani public think. Instant gratification is the name of the game.

Which streets are you talking about? I am from lahore and I know a lot about the people living their.

 

[blain2]

So, you are not only accusing political parties but you are also accusing CJP.
Sounds interesting.

Aakhir CJP hi hain..khuda tau nahi..right? In Pakistan, he has eroded the balance of power between the three pillars of the state. This is something that should be realized. If Musharraf can be condemned for undermining one of these pillars (judiciary), the CJP can also be berated for his populist actions which only end up hurting the stability of the country, I agree our current President is no saint, but to capitalize on the populist appeal and by rocking the boat too much, the CJP is actually undermining the the long term stability of the country as well.

 

[sparklingway]

CJP will not be biased at all.

The CJP forms the benches and if Musharraf is even listed as a possible witness and/or suspect, I can bet that he'll never sit on that bench and deny motions for a full bench. Same goes for Nadeem Ejaz as he was involved in the CJ suspension case (affidavit).

Conflict of interest would be the opening statement from the defense lawyer if the CJP is on the bench.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Nadeem Ijaz isn't above any law of the land, nor is any other uniformed being in this country.

Correct - but so far we have stories suggesting guilt and arrests of Army officers, serving and former, on the basis o what can only be called rumor mongering.

Based on the UN commission report, if proved, the only thing Nadeem Ijaz is guilty of (by virtue of allegedly ordering the crime scene hosed down - which some sources have argued was done after all possible evidence had been collected) is perhaps ineptitude in handling a crime scene.

How do we go from there to 'arrest XYZ'?

I'm sorry, but if the reports presented here are truly indicative of the GoP's future line of action, then it is a mockery of due process and the right to be considered innocent till proved guilty. People being arrested because BB claimed in a letter that 'XYZ would be responsible for her future death'? At best they would be 'persons of interest'.

Call all these people in for interviews and interrogations by all means, but arrests and talk of guilt based on 'masala op-ed pieces' is not justifiable by any means.

This tamasha only highlights once more the need for the FIA to be made an autonomous and politically uninfluenced organization that can actually investigate crimes properly instead of being used to create 'theater' by the politicians looking to do anything to distract from their incompetence.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

Aakhir CJP hi hain..khuda tau nahi..right? In Pakistan, he has eroded the balance of power between the three pillars of the state. This is something that should be realized. If Musharraf can be condemned for undermining one of these pillars (judiciary), the CJP can also be berated for his populist actions which only end up hurting the stability of the country, Since our current President is no saint, but to capitalize on the populist appeal and by rocking the boat too much, the CJP is actually undermining the the long term stability of the country as well.

This answers your concerns.
Sparklingview posted it

The CJP forms the benches and if Musharraf is even listed as a possible witness and/or suspect, I can bet that he'll never sit on that bench and deny motions for a full bench. Same goes for Nadeem Ejaz as he was involved in the CJ suspension case (affidavit).

Conflict of interest would be the opening statement from the defense lawyer if the CJP is on the bench.

Yaar hum tang a gain hain Islami naroon say aur mulk ki khatir chup rehna ki batoon say. We have achieved nothing by hiding our mistakes.
It is the time for us to open all the previous criminal activities done by anyone.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

So, Javed Hasmi a seven time parliamentarian should have been soldiers in this hypothetical incident? Your hatred of the political class has clouded your judgment when it comes to basic rights as well then. There is nothing to add for you have shown what respect you have for rights, legislation, laws and regulations that are supposed to govern this land.

Blain is merely pointing out that Hashmi's story is implausible. This has nothing to do with one being a parliamentarian and the other DGMI, except to point out that the DGMI's security detail would not allow for the sequence of events narrated by Hashmi to have taken place.

 

[blain2]

Decisions are made by the courts not by the political leaders. Political show offs can have an impact on the courts but the current CJP resisted every pressure. Talk shows cannot decide anything other than giving an opinion. For me, CJP is doing the right thing i.e. justice without looking anyone.

Why is the assumption that everything would go to the Supreme court of Pakistan? What if a lower court decides the case? Secondly, if you do not bring a case up against the PPP people, then do you think Nadeem Taj will bring them in? Its up to the government to pursue the investigation in a transparent manner. The CJP cannot call all and sundry if the investigation does not provide any leads to members of political parties and others who may have been involved if the investigation is already being focused on one person.

The bottom line is that this is Pakistan. There have been individuals like the CJP all along. However like all other cases, this too will drag on and die an inconclusive death. This is just how it is.

I am not lying, people on the streets of Lahore are already wondering when the Army will take over again given the current political situation and absolutely no faith in governance even though Army cannot fix anything. What I am stating here is simply the way the Pakistani public think. Instant gratification is the name of the game.

Which streets are you talking about? I am from lahore and I know a lot about the people living their.

You know a lot of people, but not everyone in Lahore. Please grant that at least. What I am saying has not been conjured up by me. It is being talked about by people left and right, even though I do not agree with it and want this miserable government to finish off their 5 years.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

Blain is merely pointing out that Hashmi's story is implausible. This has nothing to do with one being a parliamentarian and the other DGMI, except to point out that the DGMI's security detail would not allow for the sequence of events narrated by Hashmi to have taken place.

Yes, but the unconstitutional activities (if any) he committed in the past were enough to have a Court Marshal.

 

[blain2]

This answers your concerns.
Sparklingview posted it

The CJP forms the benches and if Musharraf is even listed as a possible witness and/or suspect, I can bet that he'll never sit on that bench and deny motions for a full bench. Same goes for Nadeem Ejaz as he was involved in the CJ suspension case (affidavit).

Conflict of interest would be the opening statement from the defense lawyer if the CJP is on the bench.

Yaar hum tang a gain hain Islami naroon say aur mulk ki khatir chup rehna ki batoon say. We have achieved nothing by hiding our mistakes.
It is the time for us to open all the previous criminal activities done by anyone.

I am all for it, but have serious reservations when this process is being set up in a non-level playing field manner.

I am not suggesting hiding the wrongdoings of the Army. However do realize that care should be taken when so many other external and internal pressures are in front of us. Throwing names left and right and adding to the rumor mill is just a disservice to our own country.

This is something that our journalists simply do not understand. You can report with hard facts, but should also realize that half-baked is not hard facts. Since there is no one to call these people to account, they do not give a damn.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Decisions are made by the courts not by the political leaders.

The court can only pass a decision based on the evidence presented and the strength of the case built by the prosecution. Both the investigative agencies and prosecution are essentially controlled by the GoP, so do you really believe that a strong case will be presented? What do you think the entire 'GoP not following SC orders on NAB' controversy is about?

Yes, having an independent SC does help the innocent in that the thugs in our political class have to actually make a strong case to get the court to convict, but it does little in the way of taking to task the guilty in our political class, who happen to control law enforcement and the prosecution.

As far as the justice system goes, we only have one of the three crucial pieces (Judiciary, Investigation, Prosecution) standing independently so far.

 

[blain2]

Yes, but the unconstitutional activities (if any) he committed in the past were enough to have a Court Marshal.

"If any" is contested for sure by a Maj Gen of the Pakistan Army. Since nobody here knows the exact truth, it would be wrong to assume his guilt before hand.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Yes, but the unconstitutional activities (if any) he committed in the past were enough to have a Court Marshal.

Those alleged activities are as of now unproven - and whether those activities occurred or not does not weaken the argument that Hashmi's claims are implausible.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

Why is the assumption that everything would go to the Supreme court of Pakistan? What if a lower court decides the case? Secondly, if you do not bring a case up against the PPP people, then do you think Nadeem Taj will bring them in? Its up to the government to pursue the investigation in a transparent manner. The CJP cannot call all and sundry if the investigation does not provide any leads to members of political parties and others who may have been involved if the investigation is already being focused on one person.

The bottom line is that this is Pakistan. There have been individuals like the CJP all along. However like all other cases, this too will drag on and die an inconclusive death. This is just how it is.




You know a lot of people, but not everyone in Lahore. Please grant that at least. What I am saying has not been conjured up by me. It is being talked about by people left and right, even though I do not agree with it and want this miserable government to finish off their 5 years.

If Army can point out "black sheep" in itself than politicians are nothing to fear about.

They compare both governments and some people say that Musharaf's time was better but they do not want to give him a chance again. We need progress not comparison.

This case is not one sided. One cannot say that army or few ex military officers were involved. This case like others, involve both politicians and army.