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Government firm on opposing dalit tag for converts

Ok .Right wing groups also gets foreign fund from abroad.But how much they can do that ? AFAIK there is no other nation in this world having majority rich Hindus with an official religion.


But you cant say that about Arabs (sinking in oil money ) and rich West.Right ?
Recently a pastor in my state faced a legal action because of illegal trabnsaction of money .He has arouns 1000 crore of assets and accounts in Swiss banks .All these have only one purpose.Conversion .

At any case VHP dont have 1000 crore assets.Some particular cases are Mata Amrithanda Mayi Devi but they dont have any religious conversion tactics.

I agree with you.SC/ST will get privileges without any religion problem.
But the day when they get the official approval they will try for mass conversion.
You only view conversion as a vice. What about the politician who is accepting money and selling the nation? What about VHP and Bajrang Dal who take money and vitiate the national harmony? So if foreign funding is doing more harm than good, then who is supposed to take action against it? Just because my party will get Rs.100 crore from abroad, let me allow Rs.1000 crore that will harm our nation. You only quote a pastor but do you know how much BJP and congress earn thru this foreign funding and they dont allow any audit of their accounts.

And who says hindus are not converting? I have been to Mata Amritanandmayi Devi's center in Kerala and found many foreigners as her bhakta. ISCKON has converted many to Krishna Bhakti worldwide and so many Gurus and religious leaders are doing it every where.

And lastly I am most upset with your last sentence. Caste hindus have kept the SCs at fringes for thousands of years and now they dare call them to be fence sitters. It also reflects how little you know about them. If they had to leave their religion, they could have done it long ago under muslim rules and christian missionaries. Then we still practiced untouchability and they did not have any Ambedkar or reservation. I think they are more deep rooted to this soil than anyone else. They are so attached to their village or community deity than any brahmin to a temple. They may not be allowed entry in a temple but their faith for the deity is intact. Your assessment is based on their maltreatment within hinduism but perhaps you dont realize that their faith is more deep rooted in the religion of their soil which is now considered part of hinduism.
 
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This is an important and a very good decision by the Government of India. Those who converts from SCs to a religion without caste system have no rights to demand the same reservation and benefits like before.

Athraku avesham veno :undecided:
 
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The fact is they did not allow it in their government. Also, when everybody plays caste and communal cards, values take a back seat. In my opinion, the congress has been very smart in playing reservation cards such as jat and muslim reservations which got rejected by the court. It served them right that people also rejected them. We all know what a manifesto and sub manifesto means. I dont think its possible to implement religion based reservation without amending the constitution, nor i feel its right. Even Mandal commission was neither commissioned nor implemented by the congress governments. It was done by the govts. that had the backing of the BJP.

No , UPA was keen on granting SC status to converts ,They Constituted National commission for Religious and Linguistic minorities (Raganath mishra commision) in 2004 for this purpose ...Staunch opposition from BJP prevented UPA's evil plans ( BJP to question quota )
 
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Can you share list of ST of Muslim or Christian?
The ST status is given based on tribal regions and the natives and ethnics belonging to that tribal region. NE, Bastar, Chhota Nagpur, Andman & Nicobar, Ladakh and many other regions are declared as tribals and the particular ethnic people have been given that ST status. This status wont change if they change their religion because this does not change their ethnicity or culture. Christian Missionaries targetted these areas and you find many in these areas to be christians but for them their tribal roots are more important than their newly acquired religion. Many tribal areas in Maharashtra, Gujarat and NWFP of Pakistan are muslims but their tribal roots remain to reflect their lifestyle. In the same way when Ambedkar appealed SCs to convert to Buddhism, they did so on paper but nothing changed on the ground. They still have more faith in Ganpati than gautam Buddha.

No , UPA was keen on granting SC status to converts ,They Constituted National commission for Religious and Linguistic minorities (Raganath mishra commision) in 2004 for this purpose ...Staunch opposition from BJP prevented UPA's evil plans ( BJP to question quota )
If they were keen, they would have done it by bringing constitutional amendments and not by constituting a commission. You get extra marks for clean handwriting only in nursery school. Please dont make it sound like the second biggest achievement of Modi Sarkar after the jan-dhan bank account scheme.
 
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You only view conversion as a vice. What about the politician who is accepting money and selling the nation? What about VHP and Bajrang Dal who take money and vitiate the national harmony? So if foreign funding is doing more harm than good, then who is supposed to take action against it? Just because my party will get Rs.100 crore from abroad, let me allow Rs.1000 crore that will harm our nation. You only quote a pastor but do you know how much BJP and congress earn thru this foreign funding and they dont allow any audit of their accounts.

And who says hindus are not converting? I have been to Mata Amritanandmayi Devi's center in Kerala and found many foreigners as her bhakta. ISCKON has converted many to Krishna Bhakti worldwide and so many Gurus and religious leaders are doing it every where.

And lastly I am most upset with your last sentence. Caste hindus have kept the SCs at fringes for thousands of years and now they dare call them to be fence sitters. It also reflects how little you know about them. If they had to leave their religion, they could have done it long ago under muslim rules and christian missionaries. Then we still practiced untouchability and they did not have any Ambedkar or reservation. I think they are more deep rooted to this soil than anyone else. They are so attached to their village or community deity than any brahmin to a temple. They may not be allowed entry in a temple but their faith for the deity is intact. Your assessment is based on their maltreatment within hinduism but perhaps you dont realize that their faith is more deep rooted in the religion of their soil which is now considered part of hinduism.

I can understand what you meant.
But Madam this is a changed world ,corrupt politicians have their own limitations.Economic benefit is the only important thing in this world.Politicians wont change the mind of the people from grass root level .But religion can do that .And people will do anything for money in this globalized world be it SC/ST or higher caste.

The real problem will arise when outside players manipulate the religious sentiments for their own purposes.
Sudan is an example .It is now divided because of the religious issue.US used Christian religion for their own purpose and oil.


Perhaps you know Saudi manipulation in other Muslim nations .It is not their govt policy but the people in there will
use for its own purpose.

During previous centuries our social set up was different where King can.block any of these problems.But now we have a democracy.

VHP was formed due to the so called soft policy of RSS and BJP.It was Congress failure like Shah Bano case caused the rise of Dal like hard wings.
Hindus still have their rational thinking that is why these fringe groups cant root deeply among majorities.



This is reality madam.Evangelists only cares about their benefits.Even I got a evangelist notice for pray in the front of my temple. This is a Corparate.business .I dont have any problem even if all of them get privileges .But only after the total rational and educational upliftment .
In fact a member already pointed here that converts still use their reservation by using Hindu names.


Abrahamic religion can be easily manipulated by foreign vested interests
if Indians are poor and illiterate .Otherwise it wont be a problem.
ISKON activities are nothing in the front of Christian groups.And they are developed nations with educated people.

Entire humans are bhakts of Amrithananda Mayi .Religious is not a problem in there.Christian family in my neighbourhood got some free medical services from Math.But still they are following Christianity.
 
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If they were keen, they would have done it by bringing constitutional amendments and not by constituting a commission. You get extra marks for clean handwriting only in nursery school. Please dont make it sound like the second biggest achievement of Modi Sarkar after the jan-dhan bank account scheme.

They were keen thats sure ,Bringing Constitutional amendments are not childs play ... Appointment of a Judicial commission and accepting its findings shows their interest in Giving SC status to x'ians ,10 % reservation to muslims ...Brave step by NDA Govt
 
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You are poorly informed or are letting your biases get the better of you. @Razia Sultana's post #16 makes it clear, this is a reservation given purely on caste and cannot logically be claimed by people subscribing to religions that do not have this distinction inherent. It was also pointed out that there is no institutional bias because religion is not a limiting factor in another reservation given on the basis of the tribe one belongs to - Scheduled Tribes.

I am not ill informed rather your Indian member was calling it a master stroke to halt conversion of Hindus to other faiths. I have read and know what she said

Now coming to the reservations on the basis of cast or tribalism in India

1. Why this religion based reservations to begin with ?
2. Even if you call it ST it is the same thing because there is NO Scheduled cast or tribalism in Christianity or Islam.

3. if you claim otherwise tell me what re scheduled casts according to Indian ideology among Muslims and Christians.

Why not reservations be based on financial status of any community irrespective of their cast or tribe.

The entire Indian theory of reservations revolves around the RELIGION
 
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I looked little differently....... "Hindu Extremist" do not want to have caste system in other religions!!!! How about that????? Muslim Dalit, Christian Dalit, and HIndu dalit????? If The govt agree to keep them "dalit", the next blame on govt will be.... "Hindu Extremist" govt planning to bring caste system in other religion also :lol:

The government decision is correct technically only the mentality behind is wrong seems to be stemmed out of Hindutva ideology :)


Institutionalizing????? What does that mean???? It has been there for ages...... and Lower caste have been provided special packages in every aspect of life.....

:))))))))))))))))))))) Means Low Cast Hindus have been facing discrimination since ages so they have to be consoled through peanuts so that they can have two square meal
 
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The government decision is correct technically only the mentality behind is wrong seems to be stemmed out of Hindutva ideology :)

That is what i was also saying..... Aap samje nahin.....

:))))))))))))))))))))) Means Low Cast Hindus have been facing discrimination since ages so they have to be consoled through peanuts so that they can have two square meal

Yes theyhave been facing discrimination for decades and the very idea of reservation was to improve the living standard of those poor souls...... But over a period of time it has become a political tool to get vote banks......

@mooppan @magudi Regional languages allowed only in members club, avoiding posting it here.....:)
 
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We are not institutionalizing the caste system. We are saying it is an evil practice which is present only in Hinduism.

Who is stopping anyone for converting. They converted to a "superior" religion which does not have "evil practice" of castesism. Since they converted to escape caste discrimination they can't expect to continue to benefit from reservation.
Please see my post #4 in the thread


I agree with "NO privilege for converts' having said that the question is why any for Hindus? even if it is laden with ST or SC tag? why not END all reservations and provide some facilities to those who have poverty level below zero irrespective of faith. Those who convert to Christianity or Islam can still claim reservations on basis of ST tag which technically also have NO room in these religions
 
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Ivida vallathumayirunnenkil koode ullavar thanne pani koduthene.
Its more common among Telegu/Tamil converts in our area....Monthly more and more telegu/Tamil evangelical missions and churches are sprouting like mosquitoes in and around Bangalore..
 
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2. Even if you call it ST it is the same thing because there is NO Scheduled cast or tribalism in Christianity or Islam.

You more than most should know about tribal identity. Muslims & Christians can have tribal identity as can Hindus. ST reservation is given on the basis of being a disadvantaged tribe, a person continues to be of that tribe even if he/she converts. The scheduled caste based reservation is given on the principle that these castes were the victims of a very oppressive practice wherein they were treated very badly based on the caste (not economic) they belonged to. There is simply no argument to be made by either Christians or Muslims that can logically suggest that these men & women who convert somehow retain their Hindu affiliation of caste officially (unofficially that might well happen). Their argument is that socio economic condition does not change but that does not pass muster because that is not the basis on which these reservations are given. One can be a millionaire & still avail of these benefits (unless specifically limited by a creamy layer rule), this reservation is given only on the basis of the person's caste.
 
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