Governance for Pakistan

[Doctor09]

Too much emphasis on top leadership and not enough attention to the people of the country.

Remember, If people of the country are humble, tolerant, honest, and trustworthy, the country shines regardless of the system at the top. Dictatorship, dhoom-cracy, or democracy or a combination thereof will work.

If on the other hand people refuse to practice the habits listed above, no amount of dictatorship or dhoom-crazy will work. You could bring even Jesus to rule and people would crucify him. Such is the force in the hands of the people of a country if they decide to go the wrong way.

For Pakistan in particular, we must realize that we are 200 million strong country. Thus we must think big, and do things to bring peace not only to our country but to the world.

For this to be true, we all must be humble, tolerant, honest, and trustworthy. If we lack any of this habit, then we must strive every day every moment to develop this.

It is time to focus on us the educated elite, instead of hoping for Allah Taala to come and rule from Islamabad presidency.

Peace.

thats what i am telling that if we correct ourselves then we will elect good politicians but if we dont want to be changed then ALLAH HUM PAR REHAM HEE KARAY

 

[muse]

Why this complete reliance on some "savior" leader?? --I think very many do not follow that the real power is and will continue to be in their own hands -- if you really seek to ensure that politicians do not abuse their authority, put limits on that authority - if ordinary persons such as yourselves do not take a art in political activity and keep pressure on politicians to enact legislation limiting the authority and power of politicians, they you can't really complain -- and this almost religious inclination towards a "savior" leader is very very dangerous - be careful of what you want, lets you get it

 

[khanz4996]

without a leader a state is like a body without a head.and look at somalia iraq and afghanistan all of them dont have a leader so what is hapening to their people???they killed like sheep without any remorse thats the problem without a leader

 

[Jango]

I am always a supporter of the point muse said there. A leader does not have to come to give us a sense of cleanliness. We need to be self aware that not to throw garbage on the streets. But it comes with education. The kind of school i went to, i was taught not to throw on the streets and roads. Another poor child did not have the same schooling. He had the schooling by his mother not to throw the garbage in the house, but she did not tell him regarding throwing on the road. Everyone has to play their part. A leader will get a bit of the corruption problem sorted. He will get the infrastructure made, he will get the judiciary right. But he wont go home to home telling everybody to stop throwing litter. A media campaign should be brought here.

Instead of GEO constantly airing the 'jeem' guy, and showing the bomb blats victims, they could use that half minute time slot to air a awareness against throwing litter. They could use that slot to tell people to respect the country. But hey, they want to earn some money, that is the motive after all.

A leader will get hospitals built, but some people will still pee and **** in the corridors just like in Mayo Hospital. But they dont do that in Shaukat Khanum. Why?, i dont have the answer to it. Maybe Muse or some other member can answer this.

 

[khanz4996]

I am always a supporter of the point muse said there. A leader does not have to come to give us a sense of cleanliness. We need to be self aware that not to throw garbage on the streets. But it comes with education. The kind of school i went to, i was taught not to throw on the streets and roads. Another poor child did not have the same schooling. He had the schooling by his mother not to throw the garbage in the house, but she did not tell him regarding throwing on the road. Everyone has to play their part. A leader will get a bit of the corruption problem sorted. He will get the infrastructure made, he will get the judiciary right. But he wont go home to home telling everybody to stop throwing litter. A media campaign should be brought here.

Instead of GEO constantly airing the 'jeem' guy, and showing the bomb blats victims, they could use that half minute time slot to air a awareness against throwing litter. They could use that slot to tell people to respect the country. But hey, they want to earn some money, that is the motive after all.

A leader will get hospitals built, but some people will still pee and **** in the corridors just like in Mayo Hospital. But they dont do that in Shaukat Khanum. Why?, i dont have the answer to it. Maybe Muse or some other member can answer this.

I AGREE WITH YOU in social context but i disagree in international and state context leader is some one who sets an example for others to follow like imran khan is doing

 

[muse]

some people will still pee and **** in the corridors just like in Mayo Hospital. But they dont do that in Shaukat Khanum. Why?, i dont have the answer to it. Maybe Muse or some other member can answer this.

This is a reflection of the respect people feel - They respect the efforts of the INDIVIDUAL - and they still pee i the corridors of the mayo, even though the Mayo does see many more people than the cancer hospital, because they perceive one to be a government entity and the other, not.

In the world, in any corner of the world you may travel to, you will run into a Pakistani who is engaged, through his or her own effort in creating a dignified and gainful work, and yet the same opportunity does not exist for them in Pakistan -- This is more than corrupt leaders responsibility, it is also the responsibility of those who do not engage in political agitation and activism.

I AGREE WITH YOU in social context but i disagree in international and state context leader is some one who sets an example for others to follow like imran khan is doing

And you are differentiating social from political context? Is this even possible?

 

[Jango]

Yes Khanz, a leader is needed as a guiding light, but the 'awaam' also has to do it's fair share. People do their fair share as well, but a collective effort is needed to be put in by the population of Pakistan.

On another thread, a member said that baloch people have the right to claim ownership and deny the state of Pakistan from the potential benefits of Reko Diq!!, this is the exact problem that we face.

People do stuff in Mayo hospital thinking it is a Govt. entity, they dont give a thought that the high ups dont come here, they dont get a twitch if the Mayo is destroyed. But still ruin the hospital which is made for the awaam, then blame the Govt. People throw garbage on the roads, steal, do corruption, and all sorts of other things, and yet, blame the Govt. That is very wrong.

 

[Porus]

The huge problem is that for every genuine benign dictator, you get 99 brutal or stupid dictators.
.

Four have been tried and teseted, who were unfortunately not so benign and wise, and ninetyfive other have yet to endure before a wise, benign, patriotic, Allah-fearing, honest, righteous, merciful and far-sighted Haroon Al-Rasheed type Khalifa, I mean benign dictator, will descend from the sky and liberate us from our pains and miseries. Good luck Sir!

 

[FaujHistorian]

Governance depends on the size of the society.

For small primitive tribes, a "BIG MAN" is the only one person needed as the leader. BIG Man says "go" and the tribe goes. When he says stop, the tribe stops.

For more complex societies, BIG MAN takes the form of institutions. Each institution then serves a unique aspect of the complex society.

In Pakistan we are fortunate to have some really good institutions, while the rest need to develop a bit more in order to become mature and fully functioning.

The glue that binds these institutions together is selfless Pakistan-ism.

Unfortunately we lack this particular glue and hence the institutions have not gelled together as a coherent unified entity.

We mistakenly tried to use religion as a binding glue. But that turned out to be a toxic and explosive mix of reactionary rabies infected wild dogs. These rabies infested wild animals are committing suicide while taking the whole nation with them.

peace.

 

[Chogy]

Do you mean a "Liberal" (in the original English sense of the word) Dictatorship?

No, it's a label for a strong man with nearly unlimited powers who is genuinely benevolent, wise, concerned, capable, not in it for himself. It's almost an imaginary thing, since very few in history fit this profile.

I guess an example (No, this is NOT Pakistan I am describing! ) would be a general who sees his country going down the drain due to corruption and ineptitude. He stages a coup. Over the next few years, he completely rebuilds the country, re-writes the constitution, does everything within his power to elevate the standard of living; everything he does is beneficial in the end. Then he steps down.

Or... a wise king of old who rules with a light hand, but firm if needed with criminal elements or enemies. Everybody fluorishes.

 

[muse]

I genuinely thought Musharraf was such a person but Musharraf likes to be liked - and I think any person of the type you are suggesting, would have to be the kind of person who can do the nasty business that needs doing, especially when things get to the point that a dictator is thought of as a serious solution.

 

[Solomon2]

I tend to agree. If we could weed out politicians who are in it for POWER or WEALTH rather than service, we'd be in better shape.

Not necessarily. Ulysses Grant certainly served as president out of service rather than a desire for power or wealth, yet he was one of the worst presidents of all - because he couldn't compete with the machinations of those who were motivated by power and wealth.

On the other hand, Harry Truman, who never wanted to be president at all, was probably the finest chief executive of the 20th century - just ahead of Theodore Roosevelt, a man who treasured glory. Neither man had been directly elected to the presidency at the time they were sworn into office.

In the U.S., I think the presidency should be occupied by a random selection of the Senators.

Not all senators are created equal! Only a minority of senators do the "real work" that results in acceptable legislation.

And a portion of the Congress should consist of a portion of people, regular professional people, good citizens, "drafted" to the position.

Like jury duty? I suspect many people would seek to get out of it until only a "professional politician" class remained.

When a politician wants a position very, very badly, THAT is when it is time to look out.

Then how do you condemn Nebraska Senator George Norris?

He worked tirelessly for decades - being often defeated - to craft government programs, some of which have been spectacularly successful, like the TVA.
What he wanted really badly he persisted at and often the entire nation benefited as a result.

---------- Post added at 01:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:59 PM ----------

In Pakistan we are fortunate to have some really good institutions -

Examples, please.

 

[Doctor09]

I dont understand why we always say that we need a good leader , our leaders are corrupt BUT we dont want to correct ourselves first if we become honest,hardworking and sincere to this nation then we will choose a good leader and automatically we will find honest leadership
We are the one who made this system corrupt , we are responsible for everything happening in Pakistan.......if we are responsible citizens only then we can make progress................
change yourself first then it will bring change PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

 

[pak-marine]

NO TO DICTATORS ..... They should stay in their barracks , civilians are the masters

 

[Solomon2]

...if we become honest,hardworking and sincere to this nation then we will choose a good leader and automatically we will find honest leadership -

Nothing automatic about it. Rather, you have to critically examine prospective leaders for these qualities. Otherwise you'll set yourself up to be tricked and led astray.

We are the one who made this system corrupt , we are responsible for everything happening in Pakistan.......if we are responsible citizens only then we can make progress.

The way out it is to recognize that being a good citizen often demands stepping forward to become involved in democratic governance yourself - that is, to become a politician. Yet there are Pakistanis here, like TaimiKhan, who insist that doing so is way too dangerous for the ordinary citizen to contemplate.