Gokdogan beyond visual range air to air missile succes test

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Turkiye sells TB-2s like a hot cake , because combat proven and high success
When KIZILELMA is on the market
The world will show interest in Turkiye's unmanned stealth Fighter Jet , not in the F-35
We can produce 10 KIZILELMA in price of 1 F-35

İf we lost 4 KIZILELMA , no problem $40 million
on the other hand enemy will lose even 1 F-35 ( $100 million and Pilot )

Also no need American permision for take off
No need maintenance and spare parts from The US
No risk of losing Pilot

PAF has already purchased TB2s and ordered for Akinjis. It's a no brainer to project what they're gonna do with KIZILELMA....

 

[Princeps Senatus]

In the Iran Iraq war, F-14A fired AIM-54 sometimes at max distance to rattle the enemy from their interception course. An enemy deploying ECM, Chaff/flares, maneuvers etc to run away from in coming salvo BVR missiles is easier to deal with an unthreatened one. Even if AIM-54 did not score itself it made enemy fighters scared or easy for AIM-7E2 +AIM-9P/J to score a hit. IRIAF and USAF trained on AIM-54 based LRBVR attacks against soviet threats like MIG-25. Even at that time it was considered more of a tactical weapon that can serve as a weapon and a threat both.

So BVR at their max ranges are not just killers, they are deterrents and tactical tools as well. Using these rattling techniques, some of the IRIAF pilots became Ace of Aces with top three sharing 32 kills among them against Mirage F1EQ, MIG-25ER/PD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Iranian_aerial_victories_during_the_Iran–Iraq_war

Such is the importance of these tactics that while we do have TVC LORADS and other BVR missiles like R-27ER1 IRIAF still felt the need to have our own Fakour-90 LRBVR with 150 KM range from F-14AM. Another version is being developed with 200 KM range with ARH, ECM by same company. The plan is to fire the Salvo at intruders to make them either run back linearly so that Ambush mobile LORADS can hunt them easily or they loose their course and are attacked by other aircrafts in vicinity.
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That was a different time. None of the Iraqi fighters had Jammers. Also the F-14 was a different beast, its massive powerful radar allowed it to engage targets at extremely long range and also allowed it to burn through jamming relatively easily. Our F-16s have tiny radars. And pretty much every aircraft has good jammers nowadays.

The Elta Ell-8222 in use by the Indians allowed their MiG-21s to merge with F-15s without being detected during a joint USAF-IAF exercise. Our F-16s got the ALQ-211, which is even better. So, when both sides have good ECM, you end up dangerously close to each other before getting a lock.

The only exception to this are AESA equipped fighters. AESA is very hard to jam. And guess what? our J-10Cs and JF-17 Block 3 are equipped with PL-15 long range missiles.

 

[Foinikas]

In the Iran Iraq war, F-14A fired AIM-54 sometimes at max distance to rattle the enemy from their interception course. An enemy deploying ECM, Chaff/flares, maneuvers etc to run away from in coming salvo BVR missiles is easier to deal with an unthreatened one. Even if AIM-54 did not score itself it made enemy fighters scared or easy for AIM-7E2 +AIM-9P/J to score a hit. IRIAF and USAF trained on AIM-54 based LRBVR attacks against soviet threats like MIG-25. Even at that time it was considered more of a tactical weapon that can serve as a weapon and a threat both.

So BVR at their max ranges are not just killers, they are deterrents and tactical tools as well. Using these rattling techniques, some of the IRIAF pilots became Ace of Aces with top three sharing 32 kills among them against Mirage F1EQ, MIG-25ER/PD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Iranian_aerial_victories_during_the_Iran–Iraq_war

Such is the importance of these tactics that while we do have TVC LORADS and other BVR missiles like R-27ER1 IRIAF still felt the need to have our own Fakour-90 LRBVR with 150 KM range from F-14AM. Another version is being developed with 200 KM range with ARH, ECM by same company. The plan is to fire the Salvo at intruders to make them either run back linearly so that Ambush mobile LORADS can hunt them easily or they loose their course and are attacked by other aircrafts in vicinity.
View attachment 861128
View attachment 861130

During the Iran-Iraq War,the Iranian Tomcats wrecked havoc with their Phoenix missiles. Iranian pilots had some great skills back then,but also top-class equipment thanks to the Shah's shopping.

Of course,they did lose F-14s and the Iraqis had their own aces,but the Phoenix was a valuable asset for Iran back then.

 

[PakAlp]

200 KIZILELMA ? Greece buys only 24 Rafales
No need to produce 200 KIZILELMA , even 20 will be enough

Do you think Turks are sleeping ? even no need BVR combat
144 S400 Missiles can block 24 Rafales ... If the S400 locks the Radar on Rafale, the Greek pilot starts to tremble with fear.

and KIZILELMA is not an UAV , but turbofan engined supersonic speed unmanned stealth Fighter Jet to carry AESA Radar and air to air missiles in the internal weapon stations for stealth flight capability in BVR combat

İts not patriotism but state of the art weapon . science and technology
View attachment 861172

Kilzilema is absolute beauty. Turkey will keep on upgrading it however they want, will install whatever missiles, radars on it. Its a achievement for the Muslim states aswell because Turkey will sell it to whoever they want to and especially Muslim states like Saudia, UAE, Pakistan, Qatar, Azerbaijan etc. The western always stops cutting edge technology to Muslim states, f16s with limited missiles, f16s without bvr, stopping engines etc.

 

[drmeson]

During the Iran-Iraq War,the Iranian Tomcats wrecked havoc with their Phoenix missiles. Iranian pilots had some great skills back then,but also top-class equipment thanks to the Shah's shopping.

Of course,they did lose F-14s and the Iraqis had their own aces,but the Phoenix was a valuable asset for Iran back then.

Yes IRIAF is the only airforce in the world to have multiple Ace of Aces on 4th generation fighters. F-14A delivered an 134 (serial confirmed) to 159 (claimed by some western sources) A2A kills. Some with AIM-54, AIM-7E2, AIM-9J. There were some surprise kills as well like our F-5E brought down a MIG-25PD with gunshots.

Point I was making to the Pakistani gentleman earlier was that BVR has its place in modern combat. Not to kill only but as a rattling tool too which IRIAF used extensively. You can use LR-BVR missiles to break the enemy out of his course where he can fall prey to AMBUSH SAMs, other fighters etc.

There are three confirmed losses of F-14A, one by friendly fire, and another by MirageF1EQ with Matra which was an ambush sneak attack on a patrolling Tomcat. Another by a MIG-25PD on an F-14 AM that was gaurding the oil tankers. Thats just it. Iraqis were not bad either btw. Some people here believe that we have those numbers because Iraqi AF was some tinker bell AF. Thats not correct. Few Iraqi AF pilots have scored kills on 4+ generation USAF/USN jets. It was a strong air to air conflict between two large AF's that IRIAF won massively.

 

[drmeson]

That was a different time. None of the Iraqi fighters had Jammers. Also the F-14 was a different beast, its massive powerful radar allowed it to engage targets at extremely long range and also allowed it to burn through jamming relatively easily. Our F-16s have tiny radars. And pretty much every aircraft has good jammers nowadays.

The Elta Ell-8222 in use by the Indians allowed their MiG-21s to merge with F-15s without being detected during a joint USAF-IAF exercise. Our F-16s got the ALQ-211, which is even better. So, when both sides have good ECM, you end up dangerously close to each other before getting a lock.

The only exception to this are AESA equipped fighters. AESA is very hard to jam. And guess what? our J-10Cs and JF-17 Block 3 are equipped with PL-15 long range missiles.

Modern BVR missiles have multimode guidance, datalink updates with ECM/ECCM packages installed on them as well. Before operationalization, the missiles are extensively tested against a heavy jamming environment. So if fighters have evolved, so does the BVR tech. The point I was making earlier is that BVR and LR-BVR have their place in modern combat as killing weapon + Tactical tool as well even if it fails to hit the enemy.

Talking about your aerial quarrel with Indian AF, your AF's FC-1 Block 3.0 has an NREIT KLJ-7A I guess which can fire PL-15 so your AF will also do the same trick in case of conflict. Fire Salvos of LR-BVR like PL-15 at the enemy to rattle their fighters like heavy SU-30MK, MIG-29M, Rafale etc. So when the enemy is maneuvering here and there, running away from incoming missiles, deploying ECM and chaff/flares, etc, the F-16 Block 40/52 can ambush them with ARH AIM-120C or all aspect attack IR attack from AIM-9P/L. The majority of these Russian fighters have large RCS to be tracked anyways.

BVR is not the only solution, it is part of the solution.

 

[Foinikas]

200 KIZILELMA ? Greece buys only 24 Rafales
No need to produce 200 KIZILELMA , even 20 will be enough

Do you think Turks are sleeping ? even no need BVR combat
144 S400 Missiles can block 24 Rafales ... If the S400 locks the Radar on Rafale, the Greek pilot starts to tremble with fear.

Come on,at least have the balls and admit that you are MMM-E,using another account.

 

[dBSPL]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1547251870720213000

https://twitter.com/x/status/1547255185533190144

https://twitter.com/x/status/1547253359853424642

 

[ESAx]

Türkiye has now become one of the few Countries to own air to air missile technology​

Maybe the range of the GOKDOGAN will be similar to AIM-120B ( 65km ) but technological capability is similar to AIM-120D. GOKDOGAN has two-way datalink , lock on after launch ,state-of-the-art active RF seeker and unique warhead design for maximum probability of kill , advanced counter-countermeasures (ECCM) , home-on-Jam capability and speed of mach 4+

with optimized flight and guidance algorithms and optimized rocket engine the range of the GOKDOGAN-ER will be similar to AIM-120C7 ( 100-120 km )

RaMjet powered GOKHAN will be superior to the METEOR in speed and in technological capability with the next generation seeker , two-way datalink , expanded no-escape envelope, improved high angle off-boresight capability , etc



and of course stealth platform KIZILELMA to carry air to air missiles in the internal weapon stations for stealth flight capability

First detect the enemy Fighter Jets then press the kill button and game over in BVR combat

Even 20 km is impressive when you realize the KIZILELMA has already killed the 4th gen Fighters Rafale , SU-35 , Eurofighter , F-16V , F-15 a couple times before you visually IDed him.

 

[TsAr]

You can not shoot a fighter from 100km or 150km far away thats a mythology, specially stealth is coming. Undetected sneaking to your enemy is the future, you people live in the past.

Even locking your opponent is sometimes enough to scare them away as observed on 27 Feb.

 

[nescafegold_]

200 KIZILELMA ? Greece buys only 24 Rafales
No need to produce 200 KIZILELMA , even 20 will be enough

Maybe, but Turkey should prepare herself as if to fight against the biggest powers (i.e. the US or France), not against Greece, just like how the US prepares herself to fight against Russia and China simultaneously and not against Iraq.

Turkey should have hundreds of this aircraft if not more than a thousand of it.

 

[[TR]AHMET]

Greece is not real threath for us and we doesnt care about their military capability for sure, but Turkiye have to care about world powers for our future goal.

However greece allways see itself in same picture with Turkiye and try to catch Turkish power but they only survive. It is better they invest for their people's life standarts except military.