Glimpse at Indian 65 propaganda paper

[Arsalan]

they claimed even marching into Lahore Anar kali bazar .. and near border they took away an abandoned passenger bus back with lahore number plate to claim that they had captured Lahore.
wait for it. in Modi's india they will claim that they beat back Muhammad Bin Qasim in Baghdad.. what chance does Pakistan have?

Muhammad Bin Qasim??? Baghdad? Who did you think installed that rock on Gibraltar????

 

[Windjammer]

As the Indian circus now has a new clown..... rewriting the Indian history.....
The fun continues across the border Where Sep 5 was celebrated as the IAF day - The day nothing happened.!!!

A popular tale - apocryphal but grounded in truth - recounts an air force student at the National Defence College asking the librarian where he could find a book on the war history of the Indian Air Force (IAF). Without looking up, the librarian responded, "In the fiction section, Sir."

On September 5, the IAF will launch a year-long commemoration of the 50th anniversary of the 1965 India-Pakistan war, culminating in September 2015, the actual anniversary. There are at least three reasons to stop this self-congratulatory nonsense. First, as the centenary ofWorld War I has illustrated, countries have fought terrible wars without feeling the need for a year-long commemoration. Second, by every independent account the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) convincingly got the better of the IAF. Old-timer pilots frankly confess that 1965 was a learning experience, not a victory. Third, and importantly for military history aficionados, no fighting happened on September 5. Why is the IAF commemorating this day?

The answer is simply that we care little for military truth. India has victories, brave deeds and valorous soldiers who deserve celebration. We have won battles, even wars, handily; and sometimes just by the skin of our teeth. But our voluminous regimental histories firmly reject the gritty reality of war, painting every engagement in the unsullied colours of heroism and triumph.

As the IAF kicks off another round of myth-making, it is worth remembering how little there was to celebrate in those September days when the underdog PAF got the better of the IAF in raid after raid, dogfight after dogfight. This comes not from the fevered imagination of Pakistani jingoists, but from the official Indian history of the 1965 war, which was endorsed on December 31, 1992, by then defence secretary N N Vohra. Yet it was held back and remains classified even today, further burnishing its credentials. Interested readers can access it at www.bharat-rakshak.com/ARMY/History/1965War/PDF/

To set the stage, the PAF in 1965 was a well-trained, American-supplied air force of 17 squadrons (12-16 aircraft per squadron), which included a squadron of F-104 Starfighters, then the most formidable fighter in Asia; eight squadrons of F-86 Sabres; two squadrons of highly regarded B-57 bombers; and a high-altitude reconnaissance squadron of RB-57, including the secret RB-57F photo-recce aircraft that flew at 70,000 feet, beyond the reach of Indian fighters and anti-aircraft weapons. The PAF imaginatively used its two squadrons of light trainers for reconnaissance and ground attack.

The IAF, in contrast, had 48 squadrons, almost thrice the PAF's strength, although six Vampire and three Toofani fighter squadrons were clearly obsolescent. Furthermore, India retained a number of squadrons in the east to guard against China. With Indian quantity offset by the PAF quality, the decks were evenly stacked.

Even so, the PAF was clearly superior in its training and operational doctrines. The held-back history says, "Compared to [the PAF's] elaborate and determined plan of attack, the IAF, it seems, operated on the basis of ad hoc decisions, and in the hope that full-scale war would simply not come."

On September 1, 1965, the IAF launched its first strikes against a Pakistani invasion at Chhamb, near Jammu. Foolishly, 12 obsolescent Vampires and 14 Mystere fighter-bombers were thrown in, which began shooting up Indian tanks from 20 Lancers, which was opposing the Pakistani advance. Twenty Lancers officers recount their relief when the PAF Sabres swooped down on the IAF, shooting down four Vampires. A shocked IAF grounded its Vampire and Toofani squadrons, reducing its strength by one-third. Clearly, this was not a day to be celebrated.

After a quiet September 2, the IAF claimed its first kill on September 3, when squadron leader Trevor Keelor, flying a Gnat fighter, hit a PAF Sabre. The IAF, in need of something to celebrate, announced a "kill" and awarded the pilot a Vir Chakra. In fact the IAF knows that the Pakistani pilot, flight lieutenant Yusuf Ali Khan, nursed his damaged Sabre back to Sargodha air base. Not until September 4 did an Indian pilot, squadron leader V S Pathania, shoot down a PAF Sabre. Perhaps that is the day to commemorate.

The next day, September 5, saw absolutely no action. On September 6, the PAF made its big move, launching multiple strikes against IAF bases to destroy aircraft on the ground and whittle away the IAF's numerical superiority. Indian accounts say 10 IAF fighters were destroyed on the ground at Pathankote, with another three damaged. Separately, hunters became the hunted, when two of the four IAF Hunter fighters patrolling over Halwara air base to ambush incoming Pakistani fighters were shot down by the Sabres when they arrived.

Alongside the PAF air strikes, Pakistani commandoes were airdropped around Indian air bases to launch attacks on the ground. Fortunately, the villagers around Pathankote, Halwara and Adampur captured scores of disoriented commandoes, who had little idea of what to do after reaching the ground.

September 6 was also when Indian troops crossed the border at Amritsar and, taking the Pakistan Army by surprise, reached Lahore's outskirts. The official history recounts that this was achieved without IAF support, a devastating accusation endorsed by noted historian, John Fricker. In his authoritative work, Battle for Pakistan: The Air War of 1965, Mr Fricker writes: "Incredibly, the Indian offensive struggled on without any form of air support, and the IAF did not challenge the repeated ground attack sorties flown without loss by the PAF throughout the day." That evening, battered by the PAF and without a clear plan, Indian troops pulled back from the brink of a war-winning victory - the capture of Lahore.

September 7 saw a debacle in the eastern theatre, where the PAF had only a single squadron of Sabres. Early morning IAF raids on Chittagong and Jessore achieved nothing. However, a retaliatory PAF raid devastated the IAF's Kalaikunda base, in West Bengal, destroying 12 aircraft on the ground.

Thereafter, both air forces went slow, husbanding their strength for a long war. Then the IAF destroyed 43 PAF fighters, while losing 59 of their own. The PAF celebrates September 6 - when it ravaged Pathankote and saved Lahore - as "Defence of Pakistan Day". What does it say about the IAF that it is commemorating September 5 - the day when nothing happened?

http://www.business-standard.com/ar...-the-day-nothing-happened-114090101482_1.html

 

[nair]

If i go thru this thread....... The feeling i get is It is India which has invented the "Propaganda game" during a war..... and our innocent Neighbor never used such "Propaganda" during the 3 1/2 war we fought..........

It has been discussed to death several times on this forum...... and every time you discuss the wars we fought, I have not seen a single new info or argument coming (ignoring the suicide troll attempts)......Same argument, Same sources, same articles........ 48/65/71/99 is too far behind....... All of us were not even born (other than kargil)........

Enjoy the troll thread..... Felt the only guy did not troll is @Arsalan thanks for that.....

 

[Dazzler]

As the Indian circus now has a new clown..... rewriting the Indian history.....
The fun continues across the border Where Sep 5 was celebrated as the IAF day - The day nothing happened.!!!

A popular tale - apocryphal but grounded in truth - recounts an air force student at the National Defence College asking the librarian where he could find a book on the war history of the Indian Air Force (IAF). Without looking up, the librarian responded, "In the fiction section, Sir."

On September 5, the IAF will launch a year-long commemoration of the 50th anniversary of the 1965 India-Pakistan war, culminating in September 2015, the actual anniversary. There are at least three reasons to stop this self-congratulatory nonsense. First, as the centenary ofWorld War I has illustrated, countries have fought terrible wars without feeling the need for a year-long commemoration. Second, by every independent account the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) convincingly got the better of the IAF. Old-timer pilots frankly confess that 1965 was a learning experience, not a victory. Third, and importantly for military history aficionados, no fighting happened on September 5. Why is the IAF commemorating this day?

The answer is simply that we care little for military truth. India has victories, brave deeds and valorous soldiers who deserve celebration. We have won battles, even wars, handily; and sometimes just by the skin of our teeth. But our voluminous regimental histories firmly reject the gritty reality of war, painting every engagement in the unsullied colours of heroism and triumph.

As the IAF kicks off another round of myth-making, it is worth remembering how little there was to celebrate in those September days when the underdog PAF got the better of the IAF in raid after raid, dogfight after dogfight. This comes not from the fevered imagination of Pakistani jingoists, but from the official Indian history of the 1965 war, which was endorsed on December 31, 1992, by then defence secretary N N Vohra. Yet it was held back and remains classified even today, further burnishing its credentials. Interested readers can access it at www.bharat-rakshak.com/ARMY/History/1965War/PDF/

To set the stage, the PAF in 1965 was a well-trained, American-supplied air force of 17 squadrons (12-16 aircraft per squadron), which included a squadron of F-104 Starfighters, then the most formidable fighter in Asia; eight squadrons of F-86 Sabres; two squadrons of highly regarded B-57 bombers; and a high-altitude reconnaissance squadron of RB-57, including the secret RB-57F photo-recce aircraft that flew at 70,000 feet, beyond the reach of Indian fighters and anti-aircraft weapons. The PAF imaginatively used its two squadrons of light trainers for reconnaissance and ground attack.

The IAF, in contrast, had 48 squadrons, almost thrice the PAF's strength, although six Vampire and three Toofani fighter squadrons were clearly obsolescent. Furthermore, India retained a number of squadrons in the east to guard against China. With Indian quantity offset by the PAF quality, the decks were evenly stacked.

Even so, the PAF was clearly superior in its training and operational doctrines. The held-back history says, "Compared to [the PAF's] elaborate and determined plan of attack, the IAF, it seems, operated on the basis of ad hoc decisions, and in the hope that full-scale war would simply not come."

On September 1, 1965, the IAF launched its first strikes against a Pakistani invasion at Chhamb, near Jammu. Foolishly, 12 obsolescent Vampires and 14 Mystere fighter-bombers were thrown in, which began shooting up Indian tanks from 20 Lancers, which was opposing the Pakistani advance. Twenty Lancers officers recount their relief when the PAF Sabres swooped down on the IAF, shooting down four Vampires. A shocked IAF grounded its Vampire and Toofani squadrons, reducing its strength by one-third. Clearly, this was not a day to be celebrated.

After a quiet September 2, the IAF claimed its first kill on September 3, when squadron leader Trevor Keelor, flying a Gnat fighter, hit a PAF Sabre. The IAF, in need of something to celebrate, announced a "kill" and awarded the pilot a Vir Chakra. In fact the IAF knows that the Pakistani pilot, flight lieutenant Yusuf Ali Khan, nursed his damaged Sabre back to Sargodha air base. Not until September 4 did an Indian pilot, squadron leader V S Pathania, shoot down a PAF Sabre. Perhaps that is the day to commemorate.

The next day, September 5, saw absolutely no action. On September 6, the PAF made its big move, launching multiple strikes against IAF bases to destroy aircraft on the ground and whittle away the IAF's numerical superiority. Indian accounts say 10 IAF fighters were destroyed on the ground at Pathankote, with another three damaged. Separately, hunters became the hunted, when two of the four IAF Hunter fighters patrolling over Halwara air base to ambush incoming Pakistani fighters were shot down by the Sabres when they arrived.

Alongside the PAF air strikes, Pakistani commandoes were airdropped around Indian air bases to launch attacks on the ground. Fortunately, the villagers around Pathankote, Halwara and Adampur captured scores of disoriented commandoes, who had little idea of what to do after reaching the ground.

September 6 was also when Indian troops crossed the border at Amritsar and, taking the Pakistan Army by surprise, reached Lahore's outskirts. The official history recounts that this was achieved without IAF support, a devastating accusation endorsed by noted historian, John Fricker. In his authoritative work, Battle for Pakistan: The Air War of 1965, Mr Fricker writes: "Incredibly, the Indian offensive struggled on without any form of air support, and the IAF did not challenge the repeated ground attack sorties flown without loss by the PAF throughout the day." That evening, battered by the PAF and without a clear plan, Indian troops pulled back from the brink of a war-winning victory - the capture of Lahore.

September 7 saw a debacle in the eastern theatre, where the PAF had only a single squadron of Sabres. Early morning IAF raids on Chittagong and Jessore achieved nothing. However, a retaliatory PAF raid devastated the IAF's Kalaikunda base, in West Bengal, destroying 12 aircraft on the ground.

Thereafter, both air forces went slow, husbanding their strength for a long war. Then the IAF destroyed 43 PAF fighters, while losing 59 of their own. The PAF celebrates September 6 - when it ravaged Pathankote and saved Lahore - as "Defence of Pakistan Day". What does it say about the IAF that it is commemorating September 5 - the day when nothing happened?

http://www.business-standard.com/ar...-the-day-nothing-happened-114090101482_1.html

They cant help it can they, my sympathies with them.

 

[Windjammer]

They cant help it can they, my sympathies with them.

The Indian logic......if you can't beat them then abuse them. !!!

 

[Dazzler]

The Indian logic......if you can't beat them then abuse them. !!!

True that, poor fellas.

 

[zebra7]

View attachment 332201

An interesting finding.
Above is a Indian Urdu newspaper ''Partaab'' front page which was published during 1965 war after Indian invasion on Lahore, Kasur and Sialkot.
You can look at check the level of disinformation published. Although during war, propaganda was used as a tool by both sides, but apparently Indian side set new records.
For non Pakistani members I am translating few prominent news

1: Our Military (Indian) moved ahead of Lahore, Pakistani ran away from Kasur also.
2: Lahore air port captured, enemy ran away from Sialkot.
3: Lahore emptied, Sialkot also emptied.
4: For cutting Karachi from Lahore, Indian army is moving ahead swiftly. Enemy on last legs.
5: Our Military has captured important city of Sindh (name not mentioned) now marching towards Hyderabad.
6: Our Jawans went 49 Miles ahead in Sialkot. Sialkot city is cut from North.
7: Defense lines in Lahore are destroyed,Indian army gained decisive victory in Kasur area.
8: Indian military has captured Lahore cooperation area, union close, city empty.

Considering above piece of paper, every wise person can formulate real motives of Indian military which were way beyond than capturing cities of Lahore, Sialkot and Hyderabad.
It also bust the myths in which their modern Generations lives in regarding 65 war.

Enjoy

@Windjammer @Arsalan @Sulman Badshah @Oscar @WAJsal @waz @Side-Winder @Sarge @Bilal Khan 777 @Neutron @Moonlight @Zibago @Blue Marlin @Viper0011. @Irfan Baloch
@Side-Winder

If you had posted the newspaper cutting of and that too in URDU, care to mentioned the newspaper name, whether it is indian or pakistani newpaper, and the most important question, does the claims printed on news is an official claim made by IA, or GOI, and the last but not the least what is the intention of the OP.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Muhammad Bin Qasim??? Baghdad? Who did you think installed that rock on Gibraltar????

Must be Modi in a flying Saucer built 5000 BC ago. back to Pakistan... I think we are all under Modi's occupation but we don't know it yet. like Matrix. Moditrix.. where Modi is using our bio gas as a source of energy to become more awesome and feed his minions to do his bidding in the conquest of the universe

 

[Arsalan]

Enjoy the troll thread..... Felt the only guy did not troll is @Arsalan thanks for that.....

Kuen bahi? mein insaan nai hoon? myray "jazbaat" nahi hein??

What i was doing (mmm yeah well it was a border line troll attempt ) was highlighting how WE have the tendency of blowing things out of proportion and that it have known no bounds since a couple of years on your side.

 

[zebra7]

Check the neutral assessment

Propaganda is embedded in Indian psyche and the slavish Indian media dutifully feeds the Indian's habit.
Be it 1965 or 1971 air kills, Kargil claims , Pigeon circus or the Fishing boat drama, when it comes to 'Fake 'n Staged'' the Indians leave no runners up. However since we are discussing 1965, here's prime example of Indian Propaganda Ingenuity.

If Indian media was making the propaganda, then Pakistani were not different either.

The Pakistani side also employed different tools. Shortly before the war broke out, Radio Sada-e-Kashmir, set up as ‘revolutionary radio’, was reporting stories of ‘audacious attacks’ by Kashmiri separatists on the Indian military, some of which carried over to the mainstream Pakistani media. In its August 11, 1965 edition, Dawn ran the headline: “Patriots cut Srinagar-Jammu Road”.

Reporting a night raid, quoting Radio Sada-e-Kashmir, the paper said separatists also destroyed nine bridges on this main road that linked the summer capital Jammu with Srinagar and the Kashmir Vale. The paper also published a map showing various other important road links from across the 1948 ceasefire line supposedly under the control of the ‘revolutionary council’ that had been set up as a parallel government to the Indian administration in Kashmir.

In reality, Pakistan’s covert operation – codenamed ‘Gibraltar’ – did not achieve all the objectives, prompting another operation, named Grand Slam, to be launched on September 1, 1965. Pakistani Army conducted the second operation to capture Aknor, a town in Jammu, to sever communication supplies to Srinagar, something Sada-e-Kashmir had claimed already happened.

In this second major operation, both sides used regular forces and heavy war machinery including tanks. Pakistan claims that before their second operation, the freedom fighters on the Indian side of the ceasefire line were fighting against Indian forces. However, India claims Pakistan had entered more than 30,000 troops into the Indian side in the guise of locals.

Many historians say that Pakistan had launched Gibraltar with a strong belief that it would stir a mass uprising by local Kashmiris against Indian occupation. The expected results were not achieved, they say. However, in desperation to ease mounting pressure by Pakistani forces on the Kashmir front, India attacked Pakistan and crossed the international border on September 6 at three points, which marked official beginning of the 1965 war.

The war ended on September 22 as the result of the Tashkent accord, brokered by the Soviet Union and signed by President Ayub Khan and then Indian Prime Minister Lal Bahadur Shashtri. Both sides agreed to withdraw to pre-August 1965 boundaries by February 25, 1966.

Both sides still claim that they gave a crushing blow inflicting heavy casualties to the other side and won the war. However, most independent war historians dispute claims of the two sides and say it was a draw and none of the two was ultimate winner in the battlefield.

 

[Arsalan]

Must be Modi in a flying Saucer built 5000 BC ago. back to Pakistan... I think we are all under Modi's occupation but we don't know it yet. like Matrix. Moditrix.. where Modi is using our bio gas as a source of energy to become more awesome and feed his minions to do his bidding in the conquest of the universe

You know what, it is ALL possible! Who knows. It is all so complex and the moditrix may have gotten us all fooled!
But there is one confusing point in you post, that

Modi in a flying Saucer built 5000 BC

Yeh wo wala B.C. ha ya WOH wala BC?

 

[Tipu7]

Yeh wo wala B.C. ha ya WOH wala BC

Why you said that, why you said that
This meme fits best here

Check the neutral assessment

If Indian media was making the propaganda, then Pakistani were not different either.

The Pakistani side also employed different tools. Shortly before the war broke out, Radio Sada-e-Kashmir, set up as ‘revolutionary radio’, was reporting stories of ‘audacious attacks’ by Kashmiri separatists on the Indian military, some of which carried over to the mainstream Pakistani media. In its August 11, 1965 edition, Dawn ran the headline: “Patriots cut Srinagar-Jammu Road”.

Reporting a night raid, quoting Radio Sada-e-Kashmir, the paper said separatists also destroyed nine bridges on this main road that linked the summer capital Jammu with Srinagar and the Kashmir Vale. The paper also published a map showing various other important road links from across the 1948 ceasefire line supposedly under the control of the ‘revolutionary council’ that had been set up as a parallel government to the Indian administration in Kashmir.

In reality, Pakistan’s covert operation – codenamed ‘Gibraltar’ – did not achieve all the objectives, prompting another operation, named Grand Slam, to be launched on September 1, 1965. Pakistani Army conducted the second operation to capture Aknor, a town in Jammu, to sever communication supplies to Srinagar, something Sada-e-Kashmir had claimed already happened.

In this second major operation, both sides used regular forces and heavy war machinery including tanks. Pakistan claims that before their second operation, the freedom fighters on the Indian side of the ceasefire line were fighting against Indian forces. However, India claims Pakistan had entered more than 30,000 troops into the Indian side in the guise of locals.

Many historians say that Pakistan had launched Gibraltar with a strong belief that it would stir a mass uprising by local Kashmiris against Indian occupation. The expected results were not achieved, they say. However, in desperation to ease mounting pressure by Pakistani forces on the Kashmir front, India attacked Pakistan and crossed the international border on September 6 at three points, which marked official beginning of the 1965 war.

The war ended on September 22 as the result of the Tashkent accord, brokered by the Soviet Union and signed by President Ayub Khan and then Indian Prime Minister Lal Bahadur Shashtri. Both sides agreed to withdraw to pre-August 1965 boundaries by February 25, 1966.

Both sides still claim that they gave a crushing blow inflicting heavy casualties to the other side and won the war. However, most independent war historians dispute claims of the two sides and say it was a draw and none of the two was ultimate winner in the battlefield.

Well Its obvious that very first of victim of war is Truth.
But still what ever Newspaper is claiming is hilarious.
It remind me of 71 war propaganda video of Pakistan, when we were saying that we have surrounded Indian army and they are on edge of defeat

 

[zebra7]

Why you said that, why you said that
This meme fits best here

View attachment 332360


Well Its obvious that very first of victim of war is Truth.
But still what ever Newspaper is claiming is hilarious.
It remind me of 71 war propaganda video of Pakistan, when we were saying that we have surrounded Indian army and they are on edge of defeat

What I fail to to understand, why beating the bush again and again, why 65, 71 again and again.

Or should I say

LAGE RAHO MAMOO LOOG, EK DUSRE KO MAMOO BANANE ME !!!

 

[Arsalan]

Why you said that, why you said that
This meme fits best here

View attachment 332360


Well Its obvious that very first of victim of war is Truth.
But still what ever Newspaper is claiming is hilarious.
It remind me of 71 war propaganda video of Pakistan, when we were saying that we have surrounded Indian army and they are on edge of defeat

Because amid all that confusion about attacks and captures and what not, this one was the easiest one to straighten out
Wasay shak mujy b isi walay pa tha!

 

[nair]

Kuen bahi? mein insaan nai hoon? myray "jazbaat" nahi hein??

What i was doing (mmm yeah well it was a border line troll attempt ) was highlighting how WE have the tendency of blowing things out of proportion and that it have known no bounds since a couple of years on your side.

i thought i appreciated your effort of not trolling.....