Girls arrested for removing Hijab during sports event in Iran (Shiraz city)

[Hack-Hook]

Contemporary feminist narratives tell a completely different story, claiming that it was part of "transsexually"-oriented cultural norms of beauty in 19th century Iran. In fact a book was published in English based on that thesis. But we all know how useless feminist and homosexualist ideologies are now, don't we.

rather not read their junks, they gave bad name to genuine women movement

No idea, would need to research the topic. Also no idea what the current import tariff on the black fabric used in chadors is.

right now all fabric is around 30% , but it seems the taarif for black fabric was supposed to be zero but as in customs they don't want to spend time distinguishing between the fabric for chador and other type of it they get that 30% from it . , well its what I heard , I don't knew its true or not

You didn't offer evidence to that effect. I showed valid sources documenting the use of black chadors during various periods of time as far back as thousand years ago and straight across Iran's vast territory (north, center, east).

the evidence is that 70% is the population in tribal area and villages

And some of the historic documents you yourself shared, like the accounts of the French travelers during the Safavid period contradict your statement, since they show there was no color at all (plain white = absence of color, by definition) in the dominant female dress of that time.

in the cities and at least we produced the fabric ourself. by the way it was the chador not the rest of the clothes

I doubt that Encyclopaedia Iranica authors will reference just any random source, including ones that won't even conform to the absolute minimal threshold in terms of following the scientific method. And I'm saying this despite my general criticism of this publication, since I happen to be familiar with the political leanings of its editor in chief Ehsan Yarshater.

no they don't reference anything random , they reference a history book , the question is are all those history books based on facts , they recite Herodotus, do you accept his writing as true history ? don't knew about you i consider him as a story teller

Sure it was possible, and there's no reason to assume such a law couldn't have been in place. Not every single agricultural region in the world feature a female workforce during that period of time?

well , you seems are not familiar with agricultural work, when its time to work even children work there . we are talking about a time that there were no tractor or combine , no steel work tools ....

I wouldn't be so sure about it.

Because this is her sister, Zahra Khanom Taj ol-Saltane:

So unless both sought to annoy their brother simultaneously, their deliberate growing of facial hair has other reasons.

This said, I personally reject all feminist-oriented historical reconstructions in this case (and others as well) - both the LGBTism-tainted theory that this transsexual appearance echoed common perceptions of beauty in 19th century Iran, and also all the romanticized, never proven stories about supposedly "courageous emancipated princesses" breaking cultural norms in order to snob their brother, a "bad dominant male".

Even the most fact-based papers on these figures cannot seem to avoid rehashing at least one of the obligatory feminist clichés. Like the following for instance: https://medium.com/@tvmartinez/princess-qajar-and-the-problem-with-junk-history-memes-44e15260af67

shadow make wonder. what i said was from the writing of naser-aldin shah Qajar himself and it was a laughing matter for him,
in this picture the unibrow was fashion of the time
but some other photo of taj-al-sultan

by the way do you knew she was the first from Qajar dynasty who dared to blame iran problem on useless monarchs

 

[SalarHaqq]

right now all fabric is around 30% , but it seems the taarif for black fabric was supposed to be zero but as in customs they don't want to spend time distinguishing between the fabric for chador and other type of it they get that 30% from it . , well its what I heard , I don't knew its true or not

That's almost twice the 16% of 2006 which the Tasnim paper is lamenting.

the evidence is that 70% is the population in tribal area and villages

Where's that evidence?

in the cities and at least we produced the fabric ourself. by the way it was the chador not the rest of the clothes

In the past as in present day, additional clothing is always worn beneath a chador.

no they don't reference anything random , they reference a history book , the question is are all those history books based on facts , they recite Herodotus, do you accept his writing as true history ? don't knew about you i consider him as a story teller

This subject is unrelated to Herodotus' writings on Iran. And as far as I'm aware, Herodotus isn't treated as the ultimate, flawless, be all end all source either.

well , you seems are not familiar with agricultural work, when its time to work even children work there . we are talking about a time that there were no tractor or combine , no steel work tools ....

I have yet to come across proof that female participation in agricultural work has been the sort of absolute rule which never suffered any exceptions. Between pointing to precedents of female implication in this type of activity on the one hand, which I'm aware of, and stating that there's never been an agricultural enterprise anywhere in the world without females laboring therein on the other hand, there's a notable stretch.

And either way, as long as these were isolated plots where no stranger would venture, for a female to work on there it wouldn't qualify as "going out".

 

[Hack-Hook]

That's almost twice the 16% of 2006 which the Tasnim paper is lamenting.

you see as i said some article says its actually zero but because customs is lazy they take the 30% like the rest of the fabric , by the way even its half the more than 60% the tasnim article say it was

Where's that evidence?

you are right i don't have the statistic of that time but i have the statistic of urban population from 1960 to 2021

Iran Urban Population 1960-2024

Urban population refers to people living in urban areas as defined by national statistical offices. It is calculated using World Bank population estimates and urban ratios from the United Nations World Urbanization Prospects. Aggregation of urban and rural population may not add up to total...

www.macrotrends.net

look at it and decide for yourself if I'd said 80 or 90 percent it was not more accurate ?

This subject is unrelated to Herodotus' writings on Iran.

related on the fact that not all what historian say are true
and Herodotus writing about any one is nothing but some stories not just Iran.

And either way, as long as these were isolated plots where no stranger would venture, for a female to work on there it wouldn't qualify as "going out".

I don't say isolated plot that female only work there , i say all family worked on the field together even child's

 

[Maula Jatt]

I wouldn't be so sure about it.

Because this is her sister, Zahra Khanom Taj ol-Saltane:

So unless both sought to annoy their brother simultaneously, their deliberate growing of facial hair has other reasons.

This said, I personally reject all feminist-oriented historical reconstructions in this case as in others - both the LGBTism-tainted theory that this transsexual appearance echoed common perceptions of beauty in 19th century Iran, and also all the romanticized, never proven stories about courageous emancipated princesses breaking cultural norms in order to snob their bad dominant male brother.

Even the most fact-based papers on these figures cannot seem to avoid rehashing at least one of the obligatory feminist clichés. Like the following for instance: https://medium.com/@tvmartinez/princess-qajar-and-the-problem-with-junk-history-memes-44e15260af67

Well that's one ugly family than

 

[SalarHaqq]

rather not read their junks, they gave bad name to genuine women movement

right now all fabric is around 30% , but it seems the taarif for black fabric was supposed to be zero but as in customs they don't want to spend time distinguishing between the fabric for chador and other type of it they get that 30% from it . , well its what I heard , I don't knew its true or not

the evidence is that 70% is the population in tribal area and villages

in the cities and at least we produced the fabric ourself. by the way it was the chador not the rest of the clothes

no they don't reference anything random , they reference a history book , the question is are all those history books based on facts , they recite Herodotus, do you accept his writing as true history ? don't knew about you i consider him as a story teller

well , you seems are not familiar with agricultural work, when its time to work even children work there . we are talking about a time that there were no tractor or combine , no steel work tools ....


shadow make wonder. what i said was from the writing of naser-aldin shah Qajar himself and it was a laughing matter for him,
in this picture the unibrow was fashion of the time
but some other photo of taj-al-sultan

by the way do you knew she was the first from Qajar dynasty who dared to blame iran problem on useless monarchs

Yeah, those aren't shadows, they're typical moustaches. Also I kind of doubt all these pictures are of the same person, at least the last one seems to show a different individual (shape of eyes, distance between eyes, shape of nose etc do not appear identical to me).

Anyway, I don't read into this too much. Could potentially have dozens of reasons, plus there are more interesting topics in my opinion.

 

[Samar111]

This is the country that wants to have nukes...

 

[Hack-Hook]

This is the country that wants to have nukes...

actually the country that don't want to have nukes. who made you believe Iran want Nukes instead of nuclear technology

 

[SalarHaqq]

you see as i said some article says its actually zero but because customs is lazy they take the 30% like the rest of the fabric , by the way even its half the more than 60% the tasnim article say it was

Whether it's because they're lazy at the customs department or because it's requested by law, what difference does it make for the producers.

At any rate, my point was to clarify the bogus nature of the equation "encouraging a conservative take on religious practice = destroying the textile industry". The reason is not the promotion of black chadors per se (which about half or so of Iranian women choose not to wear anyway), but ensuing shortcomings in other areas, as well as certain factors specific to this economic branch in general.

you are right i don't have the statistic of that time but i have the statistic of urban population from 1960 to 2021

Iran Urban Population 1960-2024

Urban population refers to people living in urban areas as defined by national statistical offices. It is calculated using World Bank population estimates and urban ratios from the United Nations World Urbanization Prospects. Aggregation of urban and rural population may not add up to total...

www.macrotrends.net

look at it and decide for yourself if I'd said 80 or 90 percent it was not more accurate ?

That doesn't provide solid evidence either. As said those bright colors are more widespread among tribal and/or clanic communities, but there are rural areas where plain chadors in conservative (darker) colors have prevailed. I don't think the sources I cited on Yazd, Torbate Heydariye or the Zandiye era were exclusively focusing on urban settings.

Moreover I cannot stress often enough that a plain white, purple or brown chador still falls into a different category than the aforementioned, vivid sort of gear (especially white which is the negation of all color).

related on the fact that not all what historian say are true
and Herodotus writing about any one is nothing but some stories not just Iran.

We can't compare the work of historians in the fifth century BC and nowadays.

I don't say isolated plot that female only work there , i say all family worked on the field together even child's

I'm saying if the plot was isolated from the gaze of strangers ie non-relative males, then working there wouldn't exactly qualify as going out or leaving "home".

 

[Samar111]

actually the country that don't want to have nukes. who made you believe Iran want Nukes instead of nuclear technology

Come on... Do you think we are stupid? Everybody knows that Iran wants nukes.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Come on... Do you think we are stupid? Everybody knows that Iran wants nukes.

but why everything Iran does point to something else not nukes ? I don't say you are stupid , rather say you guys have paranoid tendency rooted in your stereotyping anything

I'm saying if the plot was isolated from the gaze of strangers ie non-relative males, then working there wouldn't exactly qualify as going out or leaving "home".

are the land plot in north isolated ?

 

[SalarHaqq]

are the land plot in north isolated ?

It's entirely possible that this was so in the 10th century AD, when a feudal type of system was likely in place and thus roads and paths leading to the farms may thus have been for private use only and off limits to strangers.

Moreover it's not so that women in rural areas always and systematically worked on farms. In the Americas for example, females comprise no more than 20% of the agricultural workforce today. In 1980 the figure was of about 31% on average in West Asia and North Africa.

Source: https://www.fao.org/3/am307e/am307e00.pdf (pp. 3-4)

Needless to say, a thousand years ago this percentage should have been lower even.

 

[lightning F57]

The more you cage people the more they want to fly away. This is how people leave Islam.

This is incorrect, if one leaves islam due to being caged they were never in it to start with. Islam is submission full submission not following cultural practises or what ones parents follow.

 

[Hack-Hook]

It's entirely possible that this was so in the 10th century AD, when a feudal type of system was likely in place and thus roads and paths leading to the farms may thus have been for private use only and off limits to strangers.

Moreover it's not so that women in rural areas always and systematically worked on farms. In the Americas for example, females comprise no more than 20% of the agricultural workforce today. In 1980 the figure was of about 31% on average in West Asia and North Africa.

Source: https://www.fao.org/3/am307e/am307e00.pdf (pp. 3-4)

Needless to say, a thousand years ago this percentage should have been lower even.

if i provided such reasoning in any of my comments would you have accepted that ?
now its time to ask you does you have any proof for what you claimed?

 

[El Sidd]

Disturbing pictures being shared on the thread. I wonder if these were delivered to the Romans, they wouldn't have blamed Persians for being too feminine.

 

[drmeson]

Disturbing pictures being shared on the thread. I wonder if these were delivered to the Romans, they wouldn't have blamed Persians for being too feminine.

This was one mentally ill family of Naser Qajar ... and they were Turks.

Their current descendants