Happy Diwali to you as well! Hope you enjoyed it.
I'll try to keep this short as now this is getting argumentative.
Are you referring to BD??? Or Sri lanka??? Though i can challenge and counter challenge your points here but would suggest let's not get into that...Intelligence agencies on both sides can be accused of same NOTORIOUS activities...so i will leave it there..Let's concentrate on TTP and indian angle for now...
Agreed let's stick to TTP & India.
Well my friend that's a myth...Pakistan is a separate entity for us... This is what is being tought to us in schools...Average indian would like to see pakistan getting destroyed rather than being united with India(I am sure same goes for Pakistani's). No Offense but if you see we are more than a billion people already with lots of problems..Adding pakistan to us will just increase our problems...Its not practical neither is smart thinking...Please be rest assured that we are at least that smart...
That is a very vague point. You've said that average Indian would like to see Pakistan destroyed. What would happen if it does? Will the land of Pakistan just disappear from earth. It would of-course, form part of some other nation, just like it has been with formation and de-formation of nations since thousands of years. So you say you'd (average Indian
) like to see Pakistan destroyed but not form part of India? You see, I do agree with you that the Indians are very smart, but for us Pakistanis it's like they say, "Hope for the best, plan for the worst".
Well again i guess you missed my point...DId i ever deny that we would love to see pakistant without nukes or militarily week??? Comon man we are adversary... I always said that de-stabalized Pak is a nightmare for India......NOw as far as TTP is concerend the moment they will come to power the region will see its first and last nuclear conflict...So it is counter productive to help TTP...
Agreed why wouldn't they like to have helping hand...But why would India help them when we very well know that Pak army is killing those who are threatning us...IN fact we would love to see TTP go for good...
It is and thats what i am trying to explain...TTP is as much our enemy as Al-qaeda or afghan taliban because india is considered as Unislamic and opressor of muslims especially in Kashmir....
Agreed, you never said that you'd like to see Pakistan without nukes or with a weakened militarily. But you did say that and I quote "India would love to bleed pak(i mean why not we would love to return the favor that we got in Kashmir)". The point I'm trying to make is that what would really make Pakistan bleed is a weakened military and no nuke arsenal. As it is, we are bleeding right now and have been since this so-called 'war-on-terror' started, but the real bleeding is when our security institutions are weakened and our nukes de-commissioned. That's the point I'm trying to make.
With regards to TTP coming into power, I'm afraid it's the same thinking from all foreign people. There is NO WAY, absolutely no way that TTP can come into power in Pakistan. I mean what, 60 or 70,000 militants max, against the world's 7th largest army. It'll never happen. It's as ironic as saying that Pakistan will come into power in India, it is utter rubbish.
As I said earlier that I partially agree with you on this one, as TTP is in dire stages at the moment and any help would be greatly appreciated. This may very well be not the case, but a consideration we have to take, nonetheless.
I am sorry i didn't get it..what views made you say that???...Why would have taliban attacked Pakistan...Pakistan is an islamic country and the only one of two that recognized their government...In other words they supported taliban in access to power...Before 9/11 it was pak's backyard because of obvious reasons
The views that radical muslims would attack India. What I said if you have the higher hierarchy with you, then you shouldn't be worried about such attacks and I gave the example of Taliban (when in power) and Pakistan, where now the TTP see problems with Pakistan society, the Taliban in Afghanistan never saw any. And to be honest, bringing religious values in these warfares is just a shade.
I disagree. Simple reason being its Northern Alliance that is in Power...but is it in absolute term?? Obviously not...However i dont think Pak can now exhibit the same influence it used to have....Nato is there and by the time they will be off India would have also emerged as a regional player..Complement it with Northern Alliance affinity towards india its sounds reasonable...Now what actually will happen only time will tell...
That is exactly what I said, everyone wants a bigger piece of the pie. Once, the US and NATO forces leave, it'll be upto the regional players to throw their cards for gaining regional influence. I only said that in past, Pakistan had it's cards on the table in Afghanistan and after US and NATO forces leave India would like to have theirs. So the quote goes ("same s*hit, different toilet").
Help me here buddy...All the drone attacks that are happening inside Pakistan are only against Afghan Taliban??? Are you serious...You know that "Hakimullah Mehsud" was killed by US drone attack right??? I hope you are aware that now more than even US is not distingushing between Terrorist Groups and consider them all linked in one way or another...Now when it comes to dealing with them obviously there presence is in Afghanistan and they are acting(ground action) against them...And they expect Pakistan Forces to take care of TTP and other like minded groups within their territory...Otherwise May i ask why are you getting economic aid from US when you have nothing to do with Afghan Taliban or for that matter TTP fight is just Pakistan Fight and US has nothing to do with it???
Care to elaborate more on this...
I think you've mis-understood me here. You said that US is fighting against the TTP. I said they are fighting against the Taliban in Afghanistan. Yes there are drone attacks inside Pakistan against the members of TTP, but whose really fighting the TTP are the Pakistan army. You rightly said that Pakistan has been receiving aid for that regard which I completely agree and it also helps you understand that had the drone attacks worked US would've never given Pakistan any aid for this military action. The aid been given by US further strengthens the argument that it's the Pakistan army who is fighting TTP.
Have a look at the following article. To give a glimpse it tells you that the ISI has mentioned 'many' times to CIA to target Behtullah Mehsud but CIA never obliged. I ask a humble question was a single time not enough? You see it's these kind of acts that make the US itchy for our taste and therefore, not trustworthy no matter what. And I'm sure this is not the first that it's happened.
Is Baitullah really dead?
With regards to Kerry-Lugar bill, it had a few outrageous conditions namely:
> US will gain access to any person relating to Pakistan nulcear program (Dr. Abdul Qadeer Khan).
> No restrictions on US citizens inside Pakistan.
> US opinion highlighted for major Pakistan Postings.
For more information visit the following link:
Kerry-Lugar Bill: still seeking control over Pakistan
I did not mean to offend you...What i am trying to say by that comparison is that using Taliban as a strategic asset by Pakistan was indeed a mistake and now its hitting them back...In other words home grown terrorists are hitting you because of not going the line they want you to follow..a perfect frankestein...
I know what are you trying to say but as far as Kasab is concerned we all know who he is and from where he came...Rest i have made my intentions clear on what i wanted to say in above given point
Exactly.. We admitted our mistake and helped Sri Lanka clean the mess...What i am trying to say that pak is also going through the same phase...Cleaning the mess she created herself...So dont blaim india or other's its your own mess that you created...If LTTE can give india a tough fight without any foreign help so does TTP
None taken, I'm all up for a constructive argument
. Yes the "Perfect Frankenstein" analogy is correct. We just have to make sure that the 'Frankenstein' doesn't get alternative power sources.
About Kasab, you're right that's off-topic, don't know why I mentioned him that but anyways.
Yes they certainly are giving Pakistan a tough fight, but the foreign help segment becomes debatable when we see a monthly salary of a Taliban Soldier at Rs. 15,000 and that of a commander at Rs. 25,000. Again as I've said earlier that these are my analysis and these will only be speculations until 'proof' is provided. I mean I'm an accountant and those sort of salaries are being offered to TTP which are actually equal to a few friends of mine working at various banks. And seeing snipers, IEDs, machine guns all freely available. The 14 Indian consulates along the border with military officers stationed at all of them. Seeing our past India-Pakistan record. The bit India really 'helping' Pakistan, it just doesn't all add up.
I am sorry didn't get you...We send indian army as peace keeping force to fight against LTTE. Lot of indian soldiers died in it...Yes indeed they were used as strategic asset but then we realized the mistake and corrected it...I hope i am clear this time...
That was sarcasm, I thought you'd get it. Anyways we're clear here.
Fair statement...BUt i would request you to do some googling and read about it....Pakistan supported NATO forces against Taliban after 9/11 which was termed as U-Turn from its Afghanistan policy where Taliban was considered as Pakistani Puppet...You might have heard the quotes after 9/11... "Either with us or with them", "We will bring Pakistan to Stone AGe" etc etc after which Musharaff opted to help US/NAto against Taliban...He himself said that in an interview to some US magazine(if i can recollect correctly)
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Thanks for saying it...As i am fighting hard with many pakistan friends where they say Solid proof has been shared secretly blah blah....
Bro...please dont fall for such things...TTP being radical muslims taking help from non-muslims?? Its absurd.. You know right that once these people loose public support than they will die on their own..so they cannot and will not do that will challenge their identity and thereby survival..Period... Also may i ask how do you know that a person is muslim or not by pictures(now dont say beard and blah blah)??? Anyways its all propaganda so please challenge it with Logic. I am more than happy to admit that india(Raw) has send hindu's in pakistan to do bomo blasts(which we all know is not the case) but then have managed to add hindu's in TTP is really stupid to even think of...
Yes you are right..everybody would love to do that but cannot directly challenge US interests i.e. helping Taliban(in afgahn or in Pak)...in anyway...India is indeed doing the same thing..I mean look at it...We are working on increasing our influence in Afghanistan..Nato is fighting woth Afghan Taliban whom we always wanted to destroy(india's help to Northern Alliance)...Pak is fighting with TTP and we are using diplomacy to put pressure on her to fight with LET etc as well...Just think why would we like to do anything that can spoil this platter for us????
With regards to U-turn policy what you said is probably correct and I'll take your word for it.
The pictures I was mentioning about are of un-circumsized men who were fighting with the TTP. If you don't know what is 'circumsize' or 'un-circumsize' google it. Basically, in Islam it is imperative that men are circumsized, whoever is a muslim male by birth will be circumsized. So technically, speaking anyone fighting for TTP should be a muslim. But it appears that's not the case.
Agreed, and yes the pressure is on Pakistan from India to eradicate the LET, but there is also pressure on other fronts from India. Just recently, India objected to any aid being prescribed for Pakistan and also regular objection for any military hardware that Pakistan buys. Again the 'love to bleed' theory.
I had
...and returning you the same favor..
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