Getting it Right in Afghanistan: Prospects for 2014

[nangyale]

Let me put in simple terms so even you can understand.Instead of literally talking about Japan and China and any conflict that may or may not take place, I was inquiring is it a good idea for a weak(er) nation to impose its political will on a strong(er) adversary using terrorism ?

You took one poorly worded hypothetical example and made a meal out of it.Kudos to you.
Hopefully you will stop detracting the thread with this Japan China nonsense now.

It wasn't just poorly worded it was just plainly a stupid hypothesis. I am thinking if you want to talk about a weak(er) country there are plenty of examples in this world. But Japan, it's the third biggest economy and has one of the best equipped and trained Defense Forces. Also they have the world's sole superpower as their security guarantor.

So I will let you come up with a better example and then we can discuss the merits and de-merits of insurgency and guerrilla warfare.
Till then....... ciao

Rora, in your love for your fellow man, marvaaaa na deinaaaa !

I don't fancy being duped into another Refugee Issue or Increased Terrorism by opening our gates & embracing our Brothers from across the Durand Line; Brothers, mind you, who hate us !

There was an American maxim "trust but verify".
I think that applies to Pakistani relationship with Afghanistan. You trust and help them but you also keep a watchful eye.

 

[Armstrong]

Who quoted me ?

There was an American maxim "trust but verify".
I think that applies to Pakistani relationship with Afghanistan. You trust and help them but you also keep a watchful eye.

There is another wonderful pronoun - Fool me once....shame on you, fool me twice....shame on me !

Which means we've been fooled enough times already & we've seen their naked desires more times during the past 65 years than we'd care to admit - Its time to move on !

Its time to cut our losses, let them live in their state of perpetual hate & in the meantime concentrate on building better relations with other countries - Not our enemies even if they share a common religion or ethnicity with us !

 

[Commander T]

50,000 dead, GHQ and air/naval basis destroyed, ISI offices bombed
Malalas shot in the head

I seriously doubt these eminent scholars know what they are saying.

In 1973 the war between Arabs and Israel was about to start. Meanwhile an American Senator visited Israel on a special mission. He was chief of the Senate Arms Committee. A meeting with Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir was arranged immediately.
Golda Meir welcomed him into her home, like any common housewife welcoming a family guest. She took him to the kitchen. While seating him at the kitchen dining table, she went over to prepare tea for the guest.

As the water was kept for boiling, she came over and sat on a chair near the dining table. She opened the discussion regarding planes, missiles, and guns. In the course of negotiations, she got the aroma of the brew.

She prepared two cups of tea, and offered one cup to the Senator, and another to an American guard who was standing at the gate. On returning, she came back, continued talking with the Senator. After a discussion they settled the arms deal. In the meantime, she stood up, collected all the cups, and turned to senator and said "I agree to this deal. You can send your secretary to my secretary for written deal".

It may be remembered that Israel at that time was facing a serious economic crisis, but the huge arms deal was settled by Meir with the greatest of ease in the history of Israel. It was quite astonishing that earlier, the Israeli cabinet had rejected the same deal, because they thought it would be so costly, that the whole nation would have to make do with a single meal a day, for years to come.

Meir knew about their stand, and said, "Your doubt are well founded, but if we win this war, and defeat the Arabs, history will remember us as the victors, and in history, once a community is know as the victor, it forgets how many eggs they ate and how many times they had food. Whether there was jam, honey, butter on the table, and how many holes they had in their shoes. Or whether the sheaths of their swords were new or old! A conqueror is a conqueror."

Based on Meir's solid logic, the Israeli cabinet approved the deal. Later it was proved that the decision taken by Meir was right, and the whole world witnessed the Jews knocking on the doors of the Arabs with this artillery. A war took place, and the Arabs faced a shameful defeat at the hands of an old lady.

After a gap of one decade after the war, a reporter of the Washington Post interviewed Meir, asking "Was the logic you had in your mind for the arms was spur of the moment decision or you had had an advance strategy?"

Meir's reply was very surprising.

She answered, "I got this logic from the prophet (of the Muslims) Mohammed (peace be upon him). When I was a student, my favorite topic was comparative study of religions. Those days I studied the life of Mohammed (PBUH). One author stated that when Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) died, there was not enough money to buy oil for a lamp, his wife (Ayesha Siddiqua[Raziallah-u-ta'ala unha]) mortgaged his battle shield to buy oil, yet there were nine swords hung on the wall of his house.

When I read this account, it occurred to me- how many people in the world would have known about the worst economic condition of Islamic state? But everyone recognizes them as conquerors of half the world. So I decided that I would buy arms at any cost; even if we would have to starve or to live in camps instead of buildings, but we would prove ourselves as the victor".

Meir revealed this secret, but requested the interviewer to keep it "off the record", and refrain from publishing it, because if she referred to Prophet Mohammed(P.B.U.H), the Jews would have revolted against her and the Muslim position would have strengthened.

Over the time, world situation changed. Golda Meir died. By this time the interviewer had given up the profession of journalism. Meanwhile another correspondent was busy interviewing 20 famous American journalists. In connection with this, he met the journalist who had interviewed Meir as a representative of the Washington Post.In this interview, he recounted the story of Meir that drew on the life of Prophet Mohammed (PBUH).

He said he was not ashamed to tell the story. Further, he said, "After this incident I studied the history of Islam, and was astonished to know about the savoir-faire of Arabs. Because I learnt that Tariq bin Ziyad conquered Spain through Gibraltar, while more than half his army did not have complete suit of clothes. They subsisted for 72 hours at time on water and dried bread.

It was then that the interviewer agreed with Meir's view that history counts victory; it does not count the eggs, jams and butter on the table."When the interview with Meir was published, the whole world learned of this entire story.This astonishing incident is history's wake-up call to the Muslims of the world. It teaches them a lesson; it reveals how 14 centuries ago, a shepherd, clad in a cloak and worn-out shoes became the leader of the world, and conquered four continents.

Could enormous castles, grand palaces, magnificent gardens, splendid clothes, adorned rest places of silk and sleepless, gold silver, boxes, gems and jewels, spread of savory dishes and the jingle of coins save them? The locust-swarm of Tartar forces did not reach the palace of Musta'sim Billah by trampling over Baghdad. What a terrible and astonishing scene it was in the history of Islam, when Musta'sim Billah was bound in chains, standing like a prisoner before Halaku Khan (grandson of Changiz Khan). And at mealtime, Halaku Khan ate in simple plates, but offered plates of gems and precious metals to Caliph Musta'sim Billah, mocking "Eat from these diamonds, gems, gold and precious metals you have collected!" There stood the Sovereign of Baghdad, helplessness, powerless, lonely, destitute, saying, "How can I eat gold?" Halaku Khan replied, "Then why you have collected all this silver and gold?"

The Muslim, whose religion calls on him to make arms and rear horses, had no reply. Halaku Khan glanced at the palace doors and windows, asking, "Why did you not make iron arrows by melting these iron nets? Why did you collect these diamonds instead of paying money to your soldiers, so they could fight bravely against my forces?""It was the will of Allah", replied the grieved Caliph.

The arrogant Halaku shot back, "Whatever is now going to happen with you is also God's wish".
Then Halaku covered Musta'sim Billah in a cloak and crushed him under the hooves of horses, and proceeded to make a graveyard of Baghdad.

 

[FaujHistorian]

In 1973 the war between Arabs and Israel was about to start. Meanwhile an American Senator visited Israel on a special mission. He was chief of the Senate Arms Committee. A meeting with Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir was arranged immediately.

Please let me know how this linked to my comments or this thread.

Thank you

 

[Commander T]

Please let me know how this linked to my comments or this thread.

Thank you
50,000 dead, GHQ and air/naval basis destroyed, ISI offices bombed
Malalas shot in the head

I seriously doubt these eminent scholars know what they are saying.

actually this was the only part that was related to you comment... "Your doubt are well founded, but if we win this war, and defeat the Arabs, history will remember us as the victors, and in history, once a community is know as the victor, it forgets how many eggs they ate and how many times they had food. Whether there was jam, honey, butter on the table, and how many holes they had in their shoes. Or whether the sheaths of their swords were new or old! A conqueror is a conqueror."........... victors are victors no matter how hard they pay for it.... we gave more than 70000+ lives+ billions of dollars+ precious resouces , but does that mean that we shold give up-

 

[FaujHistorian]

actually this was the only part that was related to you comment... "Your doubt are well founded, but if we win this war, and defeat the Arabs, history will remember us as the victors, and in history, once a community is know as the victor, it forgets how many eggs they ate and how many times they had food. Whether there was jam, honey, butter on the table, and how many holes they had in their shoes. Or whether the sheaths of their swords were new or old! A conqueror is a conqueror."........... victors are victors no matter how hard they pay for it.... we gave more than 70000+ lives+ billions of dollars+ precious resouces , but does that mean that we shold give up-

Who is the victor?

in the context of the subject line.

 

[Commander T]

Who is the victor?

in the context of the subject line.

at that time they were in state of war.. they won because they never thought of price they will have to have pay.....and today we are at war...... and today we should not care about the price.... any kind of price..... we are having this situation in pakistan, in my point of view, because we have lost that strategic depth in afghanistan..... ttp uses afghanistan as a base and attack pakkistanis...... so no matter how and no matter at what price, we have to get back that influence if we want to save pakistanis... because if at this point we think about price then it,s over,,,, and we will not be able to stand again...and there will be no more pakistan......

 

[FaujHistorian]

at that time they were in state of war.. they won because they never thought of price they will have to have pay.....and today we are at war.........

You mean Israel was at war with Arabs? Arabs who wanted to wipe out tiny Israel (population 5 million+)

Who are we at war with?

We the 200 million people.

 

[nangyale]

At war with the so called TTP. Who are supported by NDS and I hope you will know yourself who the NDS is a front for.