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Germany forced to resort to run-down and outdated military

Vergennes

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Seems like Germany's increasing defence budget is more than welcome. @Nilgiri @Desert Fox @The Sandman @Blue Marlin @flamer84 @Pakistani Exile

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GERMANY’S pledge last week to increase its army by 20,000 troops masks a military that is falling apart, it’s claimed.

Armed Forces Commissioner Hans-Peter Bartels claims the continent’s economic superpower was ill-equipped to fight First World War, let alone the next one.

nintchdbpict000304290412.jpg

A German army Leopard 2 tank is seen at the railway station in Sestokai, Lithuania on February 24

Mr Bartels report is filled with tragi-comic examples of the martial decay of the German armed forces.

He cites many examples, including the Saxony-based 371st tank battalion – a so-called “spearhead” unit of Nato’s Response Force.

In recent years it has had to beg and borrow 15,000 pieces of equipment from 56 other army units just to stay up to speed.

Meanwhile the 345th artillery training battalion is officially supposed to have 24 armoured artillery vehicles at its disposal.

But the reality is it has just seven, and all are on standby for Nato, meaning the unit has not carried out a single training exercise for three years.

One mountain infantry unit had only 96 pairs of night-vision goggles available for 522 men.

And 76 of them had to be loaned out to other units.

Of the remaining 20, only three were usable.

In his report Mr Bartels says the lack of equipment has given rise to a share-and-share-alike culture in the military.

nintchdbpict000305417710.jpg

Members of the German Bundeswehr’s 371st Armoured Infantry Battalion (Panzergredanadierbataillon 371) stand at attention with Marder light tanks and a display of other equipment during a media event at the battalion’s base in Marienberg

Mr Bartels wrote: “It is often the case, with Navy units that are returning from a mission, for example, that as soon as they dock in their homeport, pieces of equipment are immediately dismounted from ships and then remounted on those vessels heading out to replace them, such as radar devices.

“The components wear out much more quickly due to the frequent mounting and dismounting, such that the process becomes self-reinforcing.”

Der Spiegel magazine comment on the debacle said: “One can imagine the Bundeswehr as a fire department which, due to a lack of money, has no hoses, too few helmets, hardly any ladder trucks and no oxygen masks.

“But the department isn’t eliminated entirely just in case a fire breaks out.”

A building programme for Leopard tanks plunged from 2,000 to 225 due to cuts several years ago. Soldiers complain of a lack of communications equipment, surveillance drones and even rifles.

Germany is desperate to ramp up its military after years of degrading it after the fall of Soviet Communism.

But it still only spends 1.2 percent of its GDP on the military, instead of the minimum two percent that Nato demands and which America now wants to see paid into the club.

But that would mean an extra 25 BILLION euros added to the defence budget.

And following the military disasters of the country in the last century, no politician is willing to present that kind of bill to the electorate.

The UK - the second biggest military spender in Nato and the fifth in the world - spends a squeak under 2%.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2974916/germany-army-size-military-cuts-nato/

[sarcasmmodeon] Sad to see where the German army is being reduced to do/use !

nintchdbpict000305418618.jpg

[/sarcasmodeoff]

A mountain infantry soldier leads his pack animal during an exercise of the mountain infantry brigade 23 of the German Bundeswehr at an exercise area near the Bavarian village Bad Reichenhall, southern Germany
 
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Seems like Germany's increasing defence budget is more than welcome. @Nilgiri @Desert Fox @The Sandman @Blue Marlin @flamer84 @Pakistani Exile

-

GERMANY’S pledge last week to increase its army by 20,000 troops masks a military that is falling apart, it’s claimed.

Armed Forces Commissioner Hans-Peter Bartels claims the continent’s economic superpower was ill-equipped to fight First World War, let alone the next one.

nintchdbpict000304290412.jpg

A German army Leopard 2 tank is seen at the railway station in Sestokai, Lithuania on February 24

Mr Bartels report is filled with tragi-comic examples of the martial decay of the German armed forces.

He cites many examples, including the Saxony-based 371st tank battalion – a so-called “spearhead” unit of Nato’s Response Force.

In recent years it has had to beg and borrow 15,000 pieces of equipment from 56 other army units just to stay up to speed.

Meanwhile the 345th artillery training battalion is officially supposed to have 24 armoured artillery vehicles at its disposal.

But the reality is it has just seven, and all are on standby for Nato, meaning the unit has not carried out a single training exercise for three years.

One mountain infantry unit had only 96 pairs of night-vision goggles available for 522 men.

And 76 of them had to be loaned out to other units.

Of the remaining 20, only three were usable.

In his report Mr Bartels says the lack of equipment has given rise to a share-and-share-alike culture in the military.

nintchdbpict000305417710.jpg

Members of the German Bundeswehr’s 371st Armoured Infantry Battalion (Panzergredanadierbataillon 371) stand at attention with Marder light tanks and a display of other equipment during a media event at the battalion’s base in Marienberg

Mr Bartels wrote: “It is often the case, with Navy units that are returning from a mission, for example, that as soon as they dock in their homeport, pieces of equipment are immediately dismounted from ships and then remounted on those vessels heading out to replace them, such as radar devices.

“The components wear out much more quickly due to the frequent mounting and dismounting, such that the process becomes self-reinforcing.”

Der Spiegel magazine comment on the debacle said: “One can imagine the Bundeswehr as a fire department which, due to a lack of money, has no hoses, too few helmets, hardly any ladder trucks and no oxygen masks.

“But the department isn’t eliminated entirely just in case a fire breaks out.”

A building programme for Leopard tanks plunged from 2,000 to 225 due to cuts several years ago. Soldiers complain of a lack of communications equipment, surveillance drones and even rifles.

Germany is desperate to ramp up its military after years of degrading it after the fall of Soviet Communism.

But it still only spends 1.2 percent of its GDP on the military, instead of the minimum two percent that Nato demands and which America now wants to see paid into the club.

But that would mean an extra 25 BILLION euros added to the defence budget.

And following the military disasters of the country in the last century, no politician is willing to present that kind of bill to the electorate.

The UK - the second biggest military spender in Nato and the fifth in the world - spends a squeak under 2%.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2974916/germany-army-size-military-cuts-nato/

[sarcasmmodeon] Sad to see where the German army is being reduced to do/use !

nintchdbpict000305418618.jpg

[/sarcasmodeoff]

A mountain infantry soldier leads his pack animal during an exercise of the mountain infantry brigade 23 of the German Bundeswehr at an exercise area near the Bavarian village Bad Reichenhall, southern Germany
its inevitable that they do not wnat to be reliant on the usa for defence and with trump there starting to get their head out of their a$$ and take swift action. now lets see if they upgrade the leopard tanks to the a7 standard
28df9bd7.jpg
 
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Mr Bartels report is filled with tragi-comic examples of the martial decay of the German armed forces.

He cites many examples, including the Saxony-based 371st tank battalion – a so-called “spearhead” unit of Nato’s Response Force.

In recent years it has had to beg and borrow 15,000 pieces of equipment from 56 other army units just to stay up to speed.

Meanwhile the 345th artillery training battalion is officially supposed to have 24 armoured artillery vehicles at its disposal.

But the reality is it has just seven, and all are on standby for Nato, meaning the unit has not carried out a single training exercise for three years.

One mountain infantry unit had only 96 pairs of night-vision goggles available for 522 men.

And 76 of them had to be loaned out to other units.

Of the remaining 20, only three were usable.

In his report Mr Bartels says the lack of equipment has given rise to a share-and-share-alike culture in the military.
What the hell is wrong with them? i mean it's ok to have a pacifist attitude but at least have enough troops and equipment to defend your own borders... really sad to see this situation of German army today :( all those great Generals Rommel, Manstein, Guderian, Runstedt etc must be turning in their graves today
 
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its inevitable that they do not wnat to be reliant on the usa for defence and with trump there starting to get their head out of their a$$ and take swift action. now lets see if they upgrade the leopard tanks to the a7 standard
28df9bd7.jpg
What the hell is wrong with them? i mean it's ok to have a pacifist attitude but at least have enough troops and equipment to defend your own borders... really sad to see this situation of German army today :( all those great Generals Rommel, Manstein, Guderian, Runstedt etc must be turning in their graves today


:butcher:
Germany worried about scaring Europe with big military budget


https://www.thelocal.de/20170301/germany-worried-about-scaring-europe-with-big-military-budget
 
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Germany is not poor. It enjoys a substantial trade surplus. They should spend it on defense instead of riding on US coat tails. Don't agree with Trump on much, but I do agree that Europe needs to act together and spend more on defense.
 
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@Vergennes Sorry mate, not sure why I didn't get any notifications for this. Not the first time, PDF is playing up, I don't get 80% of my mentions anymore. Just happened to randomly find this!

On topic: I think the problem for Germany is not money etc. It's more political, there are a lot of sensitivities amongst some Germans and certainly among some neighbours about Germany returning as a major military power on the European continent, which I personally believe to be misplaced. Germany has a stake in having a stable Europe, and you can't have that with the types of threats facing Europe at the moment. Chief among them the threat of terrorism and the fall out of the migration crises, and of course the issue of Ukraine and a buoyant Russia.

I am a great supporter of the need for European countries to come together in solidarity with each other, I guess I am of the opinion that NATO is absolutely not obsolete, on the contrary I think it needs to evolve with the current times. The collapse of the Soviet Union and eastern communist states has allowed NATO to become complacent, now suddenly they have other challenges right at their doorstep and they don't know quite how to react.

NATO needs to evolve and update it's military infrastructure and strategy, Europe faces a multidimensional threat from terrorism emanating from within Europe, Russian aggression and the rise of Daesh and the instability in Northern Africa. It is said that peace gives way to complacency, something that Ibn Khuldun alludes to as well in his theory of Asabbiyah.

Sorry got side tracked there, but my point is, Europe and NATO in particular and Germany and France in particular need to take a proactive role in maintaining a credible balance of conventional deterrence while at the same time evolving counter terrorism strategies to stop the repeat Berlin, Paris and Nice etc attacks. For as long as these attacks continue to happen, it does make NATO (Germany in this case) look helpless in being able to protect Western Europe, which does incur a great deal of damage to the credibility of NATO as a force worth having.
 
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Seems like Germany's increasing defence budget is more than welcome. @Nilgiri @Desert Fox @The Sandman @Blue Marlin @flamer84 @Pakistani Exile

-

GERMANY’S pledge last week to increase its army by 20,000 troops masks a military that is falling apart, it’s claimed.

Armed Forces Commissioner Hans-Peter Bartels claims the continent’s economic superpower was ill-equipped to fight First World War, let alone the next one.

nintchdbpict000304290412.jpg

A German army Leopard 2 tank is seen at the railway station in Sestokai, Lithuania on February 24

Mr Bartels report is filled with tragi-comic examples of the martial decay of the German armed forces.

He cites many examples, including the Saxony-based 371st tank battalion – a so-called “spearhead” unit of Nato’s Response Force.

In recent years it has had to beg and borrow 15,000 pieces of equipment from 56 other army units just to stay up to speed.

Meanwhile the 345th artillery training battalion is officially supposed to have 24 armoured artillery vehicles at its disposal.

But the reality is it has just seven, and all are on standby for Nato, meaning the unit has not carried out a single training exercise for three years.

One mountain infantry unit had only 96 pairs of night-vision goggles available for 522 men.

And 76 of them had to be loaned out to other units.

Of the remaining 20, only three were usable.

In his report Mr Bartels says the lack of equipment has given rise to a share-and-share-alike culture in the military.

nintchdbpict000305417710.jpg

Members of the German Bundeswehr’s 371st Armoured Infantry Battalion (Panzergredanadierbataillon 371) stand at attention with Marder light tanks and a display of other equipment during a media event at the battalion’s base in Marienberg

Mr Bartels wrote: “It is often the case, with Navy units that are returning from a mission, for example, that as soon as they dock in their homeport, pieces of equipment are immediately dismounted from ships and then remounted on those vessels heading out to replace them, such as radar devices.

“The components wear out much more quickly due to the frequent mounting and dismounting, such that the process becomes self-reinforcing.”

Der Spiegel magazine comment on the debacle said: “One can imagine the Bundeswehr as a fire department which, due to a lack of money, has no hoses, too few helmets, hardly any ladder trucks and no oxygen masks.

“But the department isn’t eliminated entirely just in case a fire breaks out.”

A building programme for Leopard tanks plunged from 2,000 to 225 due to cuts several years ago. Soldiers complain of a lack of communications equipment, surveillance drones and even rifles.

Germany is desperate to ramp up its military after years of degrading it after the fall of Soviet Communism.

But it still only spends 1.2 percent of its GDP on the military, instead of the minimum two percent that Nato demands and which America now wants to see paid into the club.

But that would mean an extra 25 BILLION euros added to the defence budget.

And following the military disasters of the country in the last century, no politician is willing to present that kind of bill to the electorate.

The UK - the second biggest military spender in Nato and the fifth in the world - spends a squeak under 2%.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2974916/germany-army-size-military-cuts-nato/

[sarcasmmodeon] Sad to see where the German army is being reduced to do/use !

nintchdbpict000305418618.jpg

[/sarcasmodeoff]

A mountain infantry soldier leads his pack animal during an exercise of the mountain infantry brigade 23 of the German Bundeswehr at an exercise area near the Bavarian village Bad Reichenhall, southern Germany


Seems like it's a good time for France to get a little revenge:whistle::devil: ain't that right @Vergennes ?
 
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Seems like it's a good time for France to get a little revenge:whistle::devil: ain't that right @Vergennes ?

You read in my thoughts. :taz:

Seriously,they are now our allies,if not our brothers. We worked and will continue to work together to forge better relations and cooperations. This even lead to the creation of a common Franco-German brigade.

bf1.jpg


Both armies recently held a major exercice involving the brigade.

bf2.jpg


French and German soldiers working together. :partay:
Even better,we host a German battalion in our country ! :taz: (Jägerbataillon 291 in llkirch-graffenstaden)

Oh and even better. @Blue Marlin

toS7lxw.jpg
 
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Seriously,they are now our allies,if not our brothers. We worked and will continue to work together to forge better relations and cooperations. This even lead to the creation of a common Franco-German brigade.

Awwwww come on man:disagree:, why you got to be such a buzzkill:lol:?


Don't worry Frenchie, I know under that Mustache, snarky accent and pretentious laugh is a frenchmen maniacally laughing at your impending conquest of your ultimate Rival:butcher: ;)
 
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Awwwww come on man:disagree:, why you got to be such a buzzkill:lol:?


Don't worry Frenchie, I know under that Mustache, snarky accent and pretentious laugh is a frenchmen maniacally laughing at your impending conquest of your ultimate Rival:butcher: ;)

No I am not laughing and enjoying at what's happening to them,never !

*rubbing hands*
 
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You read in my thoughts. :taz:

Seriously,they are now our allies,if not our brothers. We worked and will continue to work together to forge better relations and cooperations. This even lead to the creation of a common Franco-German brigade.

View attachment 380932

Both armies recently held a major exercice involving the brigade.

View attachment 380933

French and German soldiers working together. :partay:
Even better,we host a German battalion in our country ! :taz: (Jägerbataillon 291 in llkirch-graffenstaden)

Oh and even better. @Blue Marlin

toS7lxw.jpg
sorry i only speaker ze engrish !
 
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