Germany Backs Away From The Eurotrash

[Manticore]

April 10, 2013: Germany appears to have lost its enthusiasm for European made military helicopters and is cutting its order for Tiger gunships from 80 to 57 and NH90 transports from 122 to 82. Germany has lad a lot of problems with both of these helicopters during the last decade. Besides, Germany has better uses for the money, like bailing out the many European nations having financial problems.

It was only last year that Germany got four of its new Tiger helicopter gunships ready for service in Afghanistan. These ASGARD (Afghanistan Stabilization German Army Rapid Deployment) models included sand filters, additional defense systems, a mission data recorder, and communications gear able to deal with systems used by allies. Four more ASGARD Tigers are being prepared. The first four are now in Afghanistan. But all Tigers were grounded on March 4th after one of them crashed and burned during a training accident in Germany. This is the third Tiger to crash so far, although none of the six crewmen involved were killed.

Germany had a lot of problems with its new Tiger Helicopter gunship. Meanwhile German troops in Afghanistan wanted this aircraft badly but delivery was delayed several times. In addition to the ASGARD upgrades, there were problems with the wiring and a number of less serious shortcomings as well.

Tiger is made by European firm Eurocopter, which also manufactures the NH90 transport helicopter. The Germans also ran into a lot of problems with the NH90s, especially when it came to using them in a combat zone. Until the recent arrival of the German Tigers, American AH-64s provided gunship support for German troops in Afghanistan. France also has some Tigers in Afghanistan, Somalia, and Mali, where they have performed well. Tiger has spent over 1,500 flight hours in combat zones so far.

Five years ago the German Army received its first Tiger HAD helicopter gunships. The HAD Tiger slowly entered service eight years ago. The HAD version has 14 percent more engine power and better protection from ground fire. While earlier versions were mainly for anti-vehicle work, the HAD model is more like the current U.S. AH-64 Apache and optimized for ground support. Development of Tiger began in 1987, before the Cold War ended. So the anti-tank aspect took a while to disappear.

The Tiger costs about as much as the AH-64 (about $47 million each). The ten ton AH-64 has been in service for 25 years. The six ton Tiger has a crew of two and a max speed of 280 kilometers an hour. It cruises at 230 kilometers an hour and usually stays in the air about three hours per sortie. It is armed with a 30mm automatic cannon, 70mm rocket pods (19 rockets per pod), and various types of air-to-ground missiles (eight Hellfire types at once). It can also carry four Mistral anti-aircraft missiles.

So far, a hundred have been delivered to Germany, France (which has ordered 80), Spain (24), and Australia (22). So far Tigers have spent over 45,000 hours in the air.
Murphy's Law: Germany Backs Away From The Eurotrash

 

[FireFistAce]

I like the name a lot,,, ha ha ha Eurotrash ha ROFLMAO

 

[That Guy]

So what is Germany looking to do in order to make up for the cuts? Are they going to look for alternatives?

 

[sancho]

So what is Germany looking to do in order to make up for the cuts? Are they going to look for alternatives?

The article is very poor and obviously written by a fanboy. Germany is not getting away from European arms, but is reducing it's forces big times, once because of budget cuts, but also because of a reform of the forces. That's why the numbers of aircrafts required now are far lower than planned earlier and why less EFs, Tigers, or Puma IFVs will be procured, or why they will remain with just 40 out of 53 A400Ms and sell them after production to other countries.
So no additional arms will be procured to replace these orders.

 

[T-123456]

Germany doesnt need a overly big armed forces,adapting to modern times.
They have agreements with GB and France(military pact)so there is no need for a big armed forces.
Most likely these three countries will eventualy form a ''united armed forces of Europe ''with the smaller countries of Europe.

 

[Tshering22]

Pretty stupid of the writer to write like a kid.

Germans are the frontrunners of promoting European (Read German-dominated) defence goods including gunships, tanks, transporters, lifters etc. They are neck-deep involved in development of A400M along with France and Netherlands.

The only reason why Germany has reduced its orders is the budget cuts being made all over Europe.

If in all these crashes the crew has survived this mean that the helicopter has excellent crash-worthy credentials and is an excellent machine to operate.

Being a new platform, there is bound to be teething problems. If someone thinks that US doesn't have teething problems or Russia or anyone else don't have it, then they know nothing about defence manufacturing.

Germany's intention is to be a world power (that it already is in a way). They are self-reliant in every strategic way conceivable. The only reason they play a second fiddle to US these days is because they'd be nuked by US, UK and France which continues to cloak its post-WW2 threat under the guise of trade and 'alliance'.

Germany doesnt need a overly big armed forces,adapting to modern times.
They have agreements with GB and France(military pact)so there is no need for a big armed forces.
Most likely these three countries will eventualy form a ''united armed forces of Europe ''with the smaller countries of Europe.

Unlikely.

While the three countries are the pillars of EU, they hate each other to the core.

Having pacts is a modern way of buying time.

There was a proposal for joint carrier operations by France and UK.

It was shot down instantly citing 'technical' reasons even though Harriers were fully capable of operating on French carriers.

Europe is nowhere going to unite no matter what.

EU and NATO are just a method of cloaking the Postdam. That's all.

 

[Star Wars]

for a second i thought they decided to leave Eurozone

 

[Cat12345]

Thought it was about Germany backing away from the Eurofighter Typhoon. Many people call Typhoon...... Eurotrash

 

[T-123456]

Pretty stupid of the writer to write like a kid.

Germans are the frontrunners of promoting European (Read German-dominated) defence goods including gunships, tanks, transporters, lifters etc. They are neck-deep involved in development of A400M along with France and Netherlands.

The only reason why Germany has reduced its orders is the budget cuts being made all over Europe.

If in all these crashes the crew has survived this mean that the helicopter has excellent crash-worthy credentials and is an excellent machine to operate.

Being a new platform, there is bound to be teething problems. If someone thinks that US doesn't have teething problems or Russia or anyone else don't have it, then they know nothing about defence manufacturing.

Germany's intention is to be a world power (that it already is in a way). They are self-reliant in every strategic way conceivable. The only reason they play a second fiddle to US these days is because they'd be nuked by US, UK and France which continues to cloak its post-WW2 threat under the guise of trade and 'alliance'.



Unlikely.

While the three countries are the pillars of EU, they hate each other to the core.

Having pacts is a modern way of buying time.

There was a proposal for joint carrier operations by France and UK.

It was shot down instantly citing 'technical' reasons even though Harriers were fully capable of operating on French carriers.

Europe is nowhere going to unite no matter what.

EU and NATO are just a method of cloaking the Postdam. That's all.

Nice story,those three countries will allways work together on military level.
The hate you talk about is only economical,military is a different aspect.
We are not talking about your neighbourhood,this is Europe no matter political or economical hostilities between the countries but military they will allways stick together(dont start about past wars).
NATO is something else,they allways stick together.

 

[Tshering22]

Nice story,those three countries will allways work together on military level.

My friend, that depends on who the enemy is. If they're facing Russians then yes. If they face you, then yes. But one on one, they will never cooperate with each other unless egged by US.

The hate you talk about is only economical,military is a different aspect. We are not talking about your neighbourhood,this is Europe no matter political or economical hostilities between the countries but military they will allways stick together(dont start about past wars).

It remains to be seen.

With EU disintegrating economically and with no wars to boost scalable level of weapons production, the cost of European weapons has become exorbitant compared to cheaper and more battle proven weapons from USA and Russia. When there is no war to fuel unity and integration, it is just a matter of time when different countries disintegrate in their alliances and pacts.

I might sound philosophical but it is true.

Think about it. UK and France maintain their own strategic weapons arsenal and are permanent members of the UN. Why is Germany not allowed to wield its own ballistic missile arsenal? It was never allowed even though they invented the whole concept in modern warfare.

Because while Germany, France and UK show to the world that they wave hands together, both France and UK have their guns pointed at Germany behind along with Uncle Sam.

Germany is also the only country among the three to host an air force and an Army base of the US despite UK also being a member of NATO.

Why?

Because the former Allies are still worried about Germany even after all these years of war.


I agree with you that economic inter-dependency and better trade relations might have cooled down the simmering tempers of war and reduced any threat of a head on full blown collision, but not enough to not dislike or suspect each other.

NATO is something else,they allways stick together.

EU security treaty is just an extension of NATO agreement.

Tell me, apart from these three countries above, who has the power to stand up against a massive enemy?

Rest of the countries are simply manpower for The Big Three. Perhaps Sweden and Finns can contribute as well since their doctrine was always to take on much larger and more powerful enemies.

Face it; due to German's weaker political position in military thanks to the other two big guys, there is simply no one else (maybe Sweden and Finland to some extent) who can take on a combined assault on Europe.

Even Turkey is in a much better position (apart from the German level of self-reliance which I am sure it will gain in the coming years).

 

[Audio]

My friend, that depends on who the enemy is. If they're facing Russians then yes. If they face you, then yes. But one on one, they will never cooperate with each other unless egged by US.



It remains to be seen.

With EU disintegrating economically and with no wars to boost scalable level of weapons production, the cost of European weapons has become exorbitant compared to cheaper and more battle proven weapons from USA and Russia. When there is no war to fuel unity and integration, it is just a matter of time when different countries disintegrate in their alliances and pacts.

I might sound philosophical but it is true.

Think about it. UK and France maintain their own strategic weapons arsenal and are permanent members of the UN. Why is Germany not allowed to wield its own ballistic missile arsenal? It was never allowed even though they invented the whole concept in modern warfare.

Because while Germany, France and UK show to the world that they wave hands together, both France and UK have their guns pointed at Germany behind along with Uncle Sam.

Germany is also the only country among the three to host an air force and an Army base of the US despite UK also being a member of NATO.

Why?

Because the former Allies are still worried about Germany even after all these years of war.


I agree with you that economic inter-dependency and better trade relations might have cooled down the simmering tempers of war and reduced any threat of a head on full blown collision, but not enough to not dislike or suspect each other.

lol, there's very few US bases in Germany left and those that are are in the proccess of downsizing.
Why don't you educate yourself instead of the dogmatic Indian view you present, which is frankly getting tiresome. So many Indians pretend to know it all...
Germany and France have a common armed division, German troops were marching in the French parade day a few days ago. Fucking tool....

Tell me, apart from these three countries above, who has the power to stand up against a massive enemy?

Rest of the countries are simply manpower for The Big Three. Perhaps Sweden and Finns can contribute as well since their doctrine was always to take on much larger and more powerful enemies.

Face it; due to German's weaker political position in military thanks to the other two big guys, there is simply no one else (maybe Sweden and Finland to some extent) who can take on a combined assault on Europe.

Even Turkey is in a much better position (apart from the German level of self-reliance which I am sure it will gain in the coming years).

lol, delusional Indian, might want to look up Italian and Spanish and also Greek armed forces.

 

[jamesseo89]

Pakistan should team up with Germany in each and every field of science and technology...

 

[Tshering22]

lol, there's very few US bases in Germany left and those that are are in the proccess of downsizing.

They are still there aren't they?

Why don't you educate yourself instead of the dogmatic Indian view you present, which is frankly getting tiresome. So many Indians pretend to know it all...

Calm down.

I was just raising some questions that are not being

Germany and France have a common armed division, German troops were marching in the French parade day a few days ago. Fucking tool....

China and Japan also trade in billions.

Does that mean they're friendly?

Stupid bankrupt European...

lol, delusional Indian, might want to look up Italian and Spanish and also Greek armed forces.

Are they any match against UK, France and Germany when comparing the might?

Answer that.

 

[Audio]

They are still there aren't they?

Yes, they are, but what you are implying is nowhere near reality. Here son, educate yourself, see the trend:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Army_installations_in_German

China and Japan also trade in billions.

Does that mean they're friendly?

Stupid bankrupt European...

When will Japanese troops march on Chinese independence day parade? You're beyond stupid if you even compare mutual benefit in trade and mutual trust in cooperation and even such symbolic acts like attendance at parades. Then again, gypsies aren't known for their smarts.

Are they any match against UK, France and Germany when comparing the might?

Answer that.

Roughly they do, especially Italian and Spanish if you disregard the SSBN's and ICBM's. Please, educate yourself, i'm not paid to tutor protein deprived imbeciles who think that after reading one article they are knowitall's.
But just as an example, UK army has roughly 400 MBT's, while Spanish has ~330 and some 50 in reserve.

 

[flamer84]

Lol,an indian is telling us(who live here,who travel often in these countries freely) how things really are ...You can't compare today's Europe and whatever is going on between INdia and her neighbours.