German citizen sentenced to death for double killing despite Berlin protests

[Okemos]

Going by the comments of many news articles in our media, pretty much everyone in Germany are in accord with China's decision to punish him hard. But many, including me, are against death sentences for any crime, because killing him would not bring the other two back to life. It just adds another killing to the list.

We in Germany think that he should get a life sentence and work off his guilt for the rest of his life. That would give back more to society than to simply kill him. The law must give justice and not used as a tool of revenge.

I totally agree with you. But there are large number of population in the world that still believe eye for eye, while in reality, capital punishment has no deterrence values to future crimes.

They don't seek justice, they seek revenge.

I'm 100% sure that me or my family would also seek justice, but certainly not revenge. My family and I would want that person to be put behind bars for the rest of his/her life and work his/her arse off.

An eye for an eye makes the world go blind.

You can see some people here still think revenge is good in modern society when revenge has no positive values to society, except emotional satisfaction to the victim's family for a short period of time. As you discussed above, death penalty has serious consequence when it's mistaken. Even DNA evidence makes mistake.

 

[xunzi]

They don't seek justice, they seek revenge.

I'm 100% sure that me or my family would also seek justice, but certainly not revenge. My family and I would want that person to be put behind bars for the rest of his/her life and work his/her arse off.

An eye for an eye makes the world go blind.

That would be optimal but life is complex and the situation will not always come out like that. You actually make some very good points that I like. You have to understand that sentence someone to death requires direct evidence of intention. A death sentence is not a revenge. It is partially a deterrent. But most importantly, it is a prevention from another innocent death by the hand of a murderer. Putting a murderer to life sentence will not guarantee he will not kill his jail mate.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

That would be optimal but life is complex and the situation will not always come out like that. You actually make some very good points that I like. You have to understand that sentence someone to death requires direct evidence of intention. A death sentence is not a revenge. It is partially a deterrent. But most importantly, it is a prevention from another innocent death by the hand of a murderer. Putting a murderer to life sentence will not guarantee he will not kill his jail mate.

If death sentences were a deterrence, then this case is the best example that this deterrence failed miserably as the murderer certainly knows, that murder in China means death sentence. He and his victims all studied sinology and he must know the consequences. He could have waited till both of his victims returned back to Germany and kill them here in Germany. But he travelled all his way to China and kill them there. He even attempted to commit suicide after he murdered his victims. So, to kill him is in fact granting him a favour.

A double fail.

 

[xunzi]

If death sentences were a deterrence, then this case is the best example that this deterrence failed miserably as the murderer certainly knows, that murder in China means death sentence. He and his victims all studied sinology and he must know the consequences. He could have waited till both of his victims returned back to Germany and kill them here in Germany. But he travelled all his way to China and kill them there. He even attempted to commit suicide after he murdered his victims. So, to kill him is in fact granting him a favour.

A double fail.

99% of serial killers killed for the joy of killing. They have no remorse and will kill again if given the opportunity. Remember, you kill a monster is not only to prevent a monster but to prevent an innocent live from being killed. Unless we can lock his monster up in his cell lock by himself 7/24, it is impossible to prevent him killing again.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

99% of serial killers killed for the joy of killing. They have no remorse and will kill again if given the opportunity. Remember, you kill a monster is not only to prevent a monster but to prevent an innocent live from being killed. Unless we can lock his monster up in his cell lock by himself 7/24, it is impossible to prevent him killing again.

Serial killers are mentally ill and should be confined into a psychiatric institution forever. The problem with death sentences is the lack of 100% certainty due to human error. Secondly, either you have to pass death sentence to all murder cases or abolish it for all.

Imagine that a person close to you became a victim of murder and after a while the police caught a person who has no alibi and matches the description as well as the circumstances of the murder case. Everybody but his/her family and the charged person were convinced of his/her guilt. That person got sentenced to death and you feel satisfied. You even saw that person and his family in the court, maybe even with much anger or hate in your eyes. You might have even said something hateful to that persons family in the courtroom.

Years later, due to new evidences and better forensic, it came out the murderer was in fact another person. How would you face of members of the family whose loved one got killed due to human error? How will you feel about the person that you wished his/her death so much who you thought killed your loved one?

Although the US has less death sentences than China, every year there are still people who got killed by the state innocently. Lets say that China sentences each year 1000 people to death …

and please read this article and do the math: US death row study: 4% of defendants sentenced to die are innocent | World news | theguardian.com

 

[xunzi]

Serial killers are mentally ill and should be confined into a psychiatric institution forever. The problem with death sentences is the lack of 100% certainty due to human error. Secondly, either you have to pass death sentence to all murder cases or abolish it for all.

Imagine that a person close to you became a victim of murder and after a while the police caught a person who has no alibi and matches the description as well as the circumstances of the murder case. Everybody but his/her family and the charged person were convinced of his/her guilt. That person got sentenced to death and you feel satisfied. You even saw that person and his family in the court, maybe even with much anger or hate in your eyes. You might have even said something hateful to that persons family in the courtroom.

Years later, due to new evidences and better forensic, it came out the murderer was in fact another person. How would you face of members of the family whose loved one got killed due to human error? How will you feel about the person that you wished his/her death so much who you thought killed your loved one?

Although the US has less death sentences than China, every year there are still people who got killed by the state innocently. Lets say that China sentences each year 1000 people to death …

and please read this article and do the math: US death row study: 4% of defendants sentenced to die are innocent | World news | theguardian.com

I favor the selective death sentence. It shouldn't be one way or the other. Flexibility in the legal system is key. If one of my family or friend commit a heinous crime, I would vote for the death sentence as well. This is for society safety but also for his own goodness. I see no point of living a life in pain. Why putting a person to suffer eternally by jailing him like an animal when he could put to death and perhaps reborn a different person?

Like I said, there must be a direct evidence of crime for the death sentence. I take nothing less than video recorder, picture, direct eye-witness, DNA sample, or confession.

The US needs to change the way it seeks evidence. A direct evidence is needed.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

I favor the selective death sentence. It shouldn't be one way or the other. Flexibility in the legal system is key. If one of my family or friend commit a heinous crime, I would vote for the death sentence as well. This is for society safety but also for his own goodness. I see no point of living a life in pain. Why putting a person to suffer eternally by jailing him like an animal when he could put to death and perhaps reborn a different person?

Like I said, there must be a direct evidence of crime for the death sentence. I take nothing less than video recorder, picture, direct eye-witness, DNA sample, or confession.

The US needs to change the way it seeks evidence. A direct evidence is needed.

Well, I'm not religious, so a reborn is out of the question. We only have this life, that is for sure, everything else is speculation.

Here is a case from China that had a happy ending: Man with Death Penalty Pronounced Innocent
-- china.org.cn

and another with a very sad ending: New attempt to clear executed Nie Shubin - Global Times

China Wiki – The free encyclopedia on China, china.org.cn

Nie Shubin was wrongfully executed in Shijiazhuang, China in 1995 for a murder that he did not commit. The murderer confessed ten years later. His family was not informed of his execution which they found out when Shubin's father tried to visit him in prison. The grief stricken father attempted suicide by drinking pesticide. Shubin's mother mourned his only son's death stating how they have lost all hope of the future because of the death of their only heir.

Can you understand the traumatic experiences Nie's family had to endure for all these years even after it came out that he died an innocent death?

 

[Developereo]

Didn't you read the part of working for the rest of his life to repay to society?

I am sure there are plenty of people who didn't kill two people who would be happy to get a guaranteed job for life.

If you are unemployed, no skills, no money, no home, nowhere to go, and it's freezing cold outside, why not kill somebody? The State will provide you with a room. food, warm home, library, TV, gym, guaranteed job...

 

[terranMarine]

I am sure there are plenty of people who didn't kill two people who would be happy to get a guaranteed job for life.

If you are unemployed, no skills, no money, no home, nowhere to go, and it's freezing cold outside, why not kill somebody? The State will provide you with a room. food, warm home, library, TV, gym, guaranteed job...

Very tempting isn't it? Capital punishment is not perfect but it is still better than keeping all the (serial) killers and wasting tax money.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

I am sure there are plenty of people who didn't kill two people who would be happy to get a guaranteed job for life.

If you are unemployed, no skills, no money, no home, nowhere to go, and it's freezing cold outside, why not kill somebody? The State will provide you with a room. food, warm home, library, TV, gym, guaranteed job...

In Germany, all this is provided without killing anyone.

If you think it's so great, why don't you come and kill someone and get your guaranteed dream job for the rest of your life with accommodation, food and no money?

Oh, he studied sinology BTW and had the chance to hundreds of jobs in the free market. People speaking Chinese are welcomed in many companies.

 

[Kyle Sun]

Crazy Guy!

 

[XenoEnsi-14]

Why not just torture the killer for the rest of his life, treat him worse than a slave, make him wish he were dead only to torture him some more until he dies of old age. Never feed him when he wants to eat, force feed him when he wants to die of starvation.

 

[Jlaw]

Going by the comments of many news articles in our media, pretty much everyone in Germany are in accord with China's decision to punish him hard. But many, including me, are against death sentences for any crime, because killing him would not bring the other two back to life. It just adds another killing to the list.

We in Germany think that he should get a life sentence and work off his guilt for the rest of his life. That would give back more to society than to simply kill him. The law must give justice and not used as a tool of revenge.

Putting him in jail cost too much money. Lethal injection is cheap.

 

[Developereo]

In Germany, all this is provided without killing anyone.

Germany provides guaranteed free housing, free electricity, food, TV, library and gym to all citizens?
To earn welfare benefits, you have to keep proving that you have looked for a job. Why bother with the hassle? Just kill somebody and you are guaranteed all this for life without spending a single hour pretending to look for work.

If you think it's so great, why don't you come and kill someone and get your guaranteed dream job for the rest of your life with accommodation, food and no money?

Because I have the skills and the will to earn a better standard of living than the one provided in jail.

But for those who lack the skills and/or the will, they might as well kill somebody and enjoy a guaranteed standard of living.

 

[dlclong]

杀人偿命
欠债还钱
天经地义
A murderer must repay with his life just like a borrower with money，
lasting unchanged principle&Guidelines between heaven and earth .
It's nature's law.

In China must follow China law