Geopolitics of ASEAN+ region

[Wholegrain]

1 my first response was to NiceGuy only, about Vietnam "welcoming" muslims.

2 my second response about the First Sino Japanese War and Boxer rebellion was addressed to you only, about your claim that Japanese won by strategy. I was actually talking about when they faced competent resistance, I didn't just talk about Zuo because he was a Muslim. Opium smoking was also banned for Muslims.

3 my third response was adressed to Kalu miah only, who wrongly claimed the Imperial Japan had support of Muslims in China including even the Uyghurs who did not supoort Japan during the ear.

Wth do you think I was suggesting? I haven't said anything on current geopolitics. People made false claims (and NiceGuy lied through his teeth) and I corrected them.

If you noticed, I used the mention function above each part of the post addressed to that member.

And in case you didn't notice, everything I addressed was before 1949 when the Communists took over.

Apart from some isolated incidents, what is the real message of your post? I can't really understand what you are trying to get at.

Even American and so called "Israeli" military TODAY has Muslim (by name) officers.

Hindustan has the highest number of Muslims (without any rights) of any Kafir countries in the world.

I think you are being desperate here.

The fact is, due to East Turkestan/Xinjiang and the discarded ideology of Communism being imposed there, there is reason for a festering sore relation with Muslim world and China. There is no such issue with Japan, at all, which is a rarity because it is one of the few Kafir majority countries that has managed to remain neutral or friendly to most Muslims even under American influence, and American created anti-Muslim hysteria and paranoia.

Not only that, China mobilized its troops in the recent past when war rhetoric in the Korean Peninsula was heating up, showing that North Korea - despite whatever the Chinese say on the internet - is a "red line" for China.

Whereas, Pakistan gets bombed to oblivion - so to speak - by American drones, and NATO supplies pass through Pakistani territory (and American contractors roam freely inside Pakistan), only for China to turn a blind eye to these events.

Iran, is another country, which China has imposed sanctions on. Russian decisions are understandable, because Russia's interests in the Caspian Sea definitely conflict with Iran's. But, why did China agree to impose sanctions on Iran?

Then, China - quite naively - congratulated Hindutva extremist BAL very early though it was installed by Americans, and the Hindustanis merely extracted all the benefits that they could for themselves (not only at the expense of Bangladeshis and Muslims, but also at the expense of the Chinese). That is why BAL has been dragging its feet with all mega projects like one of the longest bridges in the world, one (possibly) strategic deep water sea port, greater trade with China, and other issues that closer partners should have naturally emphasized.


I could go on and on.

The point is, that China is at least a few decades away from becoming a superpower (but possibly only 4 to 5 years away from surpassing American GDP) because its leadership, 'think tanks', military or what have you, always think about "catching up" with some body else, but never about creating a new paradigm all of its own.

 

[Banglar Lathial]

1 my first response was to NiceGuy only, about Vietnam "welcoming" muslims.

2 my second response about the First Sino Japanese War and Boxer rebellion was addressed to you only, about your claim that Japanese won by strategy. I was actually talking about when they faced competent resistance, I didn't just talk about Zuo because he was a Muslim. Opium smoking was also banned for Muslims.

3 my third response was adressed to Kalu miah only, who wrongly claimed the Imperial Japan had support of Muslims in China including even the Uyghurs who did not supoort Japan during the ear.

Wth do you think I was suggesting? I haven't said anything on current geopolitics. People made false claims (and NiceGuy lied through his teeth) and I corrected them.

If you noticed, I used the mention function above each part of the post addressed to that member.

And in case you didn't notice, everything I addressed was before 1949 when the Communists took over.

Fine. So ignoring all your other points, the much smaller resource poor nation of Japan defeated China in battle (all by itself) even though Chinese fleet was very modern. And that happened in the not too distant past to ignore. So, there are lessons to be learnt.

Some Arabs cry that they were defeated in 1967 by much smaller so called "Israel" because they were "caught offguard", they were "unprepared", they were led by "incompetent officers", and what not, but those are all indicators of their OWN failures.

To capitalize on the enemy's failure with such precision is a sign of sure strategic success. Thus, that battle alongside other experiences from Japan hold many lessons for many countries with similar sized populations.

 

[Wholegrain]

I also have something on topic to post.

Japan and the West are deepening their relations against Myanmar in order to use it as a proxy against China and pry its resources away from China's grip. Japan especially is deepening economic and political ties and like India it never stopped its relations duringnthe Junta era even while the West had sanctions on them.

China's proxy in Myanmar against the Burmese is the United Wa State Army. Their autonomy is a red line for China and the Burmese have to let them operate freely in Wa State. China has been backing them for decades and exerting cultural influence on them.

The Wa state uses Chinese currency, Chinese cellphone coverage and Chinese language for television. They educate their children in Chinese. The official languages of Wa state are Chinese and Wa, not Burmese. Their leaders have Chinese names, not Burmese names.

?????? - ?

» Wa

China supplies military support to the United Wa State Army

With Burma in Mind, China Quietly Supports Wa Rebels - One News Page [US]

With Burma in Mind, China Quietly Supports Wa Rebels



Los Angeles Times: Archives - OPIUM; Myanmar Tries to Kick Its Habit

OPIUM; Myanmar Tries to Kick Its Habit

From the Chinese the Wa have also learned about development. The Wa don't seem to have much in common with the Burmese majority far away in the rest of Myanmar. They don't love the ruling generals. They don't love [Aung San Suu Kyi]. They love China and everything Chinese. In remote areas of Special Region #2 you can see Chinese road builders camped in tents made of plastic sheeting, a sight evocative of images of Chinese building the American railroads 150 years ago. Chinese trucks ply these new -- albeit dirt -- roads. Chinese merchants operate the small shops in the villages. In one village of dirt streets and thatch-roofed structures, we saw dozens and dozens of large new electric streetlight poles, suitable for the downtown of a city. We were told that the town chief had admired similar light poles in China, and a willing Chinese salesperson had then obliged. And behind the scenes, the Chinese government presumably pressures the Wa leadership to abandon opium, just as Chinese intelligence officers quietly track drug traffickers across the Wa region.

Los Angeles Times - Los Angeles, Calif. Author: Mitchell Koss Date: Aug 10, 2003 Start Page: M.2 Section: Opinion; Part M; Editorial Pages Desk Text Word Count: 1681

Founding of Wa State can spark confusion | democracy for burma

UWSA, the largest of the armed ethnic groups in Myanmar, has reiterated the demand, which it has made since 2012.

Regarding the Wa’s demand, one Lower House MP said granting it without thorough analysis could make the country’s situation more confusing.

“In my opinion, it is too early to satisfy their demand. This issue must be discussed in a close-door meeting in Parliament. Are those living in the Wa region are genuine Wa nationals? It is necessary to monitor whether there are manipulators behind the demand. If it is granted without analysis, there will be confusion,” MP Kyi Myint said.

Some fear that the upgrading of the Wa self-administered division to a state might change the union pattern of Myanmar as the administrative board of the Wa region uses Chinese as an official language and only 30% of the population use Bamar language and other ethnic dialects.

Sao Aung Myint from Shan Descendent Force said: “The issue is not possible yet although they have the right to demand. Our country is multi-national. Various ethnic groups live in Shan State. If the Wa is allowed to form an autonomous state, the whole union will be in a state of fragility.”

Shan National League for Democracy’s chairman said the government was facing confusion though he did not want to make comments on the demand of UWSA, which is reportedly overwhelmed by Chinese people and the Chinese lifestyle.

“The situation is confusing. It is better to ask the public attitude. I said the public stance should be sought when the Wa region was granted to found a self-administered division. But the then government didn’t,” chairman Khun Tun Oo said.

UWSA with more than 30,000 troops and 10,000 auxiliary troops is serving under the United Wa State Party (UWSP) and it is mainly active in the areas of Panhsai, Mongmaw, Panwai, Narphan, Mongpauk, Mongyan and Hopan of Shan State.

On April 29, UWSA dismissed a report from Janes Intelligence that it acquired armed helicopters from China. It was also denied by the Chinese government.

The Chinese embassy in Myanmar strongly denounced the report on May 7 while UWSP officials gave a clarification during the meeting with the government’s peace working group on May 10. But their denial came long after the release of that report.

According to the UWSA’s clarification, it purchased a helicopter, a Foker and a vessel from Thailand. But they have no engines and are to be used in a local natural garden, it explained.

However, questions have arisen over the links between the UWSA and China.

In its press release issued on May 7, the Chinese embassy said China is committed to joining hands with the Myanmar side to uphold the peace and stability of the border areas. This, however, contradicts the Wa’s demand to found an autonomous state.

Political analyst Dr Yan Myo Thein said: “China’s central government seemed to have no direct links with UWSA. Yet, I think there are more or less cooperation between it and the Chinese provincial governments. Here, there should be transparency in cooperation between the UWSA and Chinese provincial governments. Only then will suspicion over Sino-Myanmar relations reduce.”

Reports erupted that UWSA has links with Chinese intelligence agencies; Chinese military officials are training the Wa troops and in other words, they are an army formed by China in Myanmar, Swedish journalist Bertil Lintner, an expert of the background history of the UWSA, told the Eleven Media Group last October.

Dr Yan Myo Thein also said: “Let alone the demand of the state level, Parliament should reconsider the designation of the Wa region as a self-administered division. It is also necessary to re-access the rights and powers vested in regional governments and self-administered zones and divisions.”

The Myanmar government cannot take a census in the Wa self-administered division in current condition. Having an area of 17000 square feet, the Wa division has approximately a population of 600,000. The division is divided into Northern and Southern Wa regions. Seventy per cent of the total population speaks Chinese, using China currency Yuan. The division even can access Chinese language TV channels within the region.

Their main businesses are gems, minerals, fuels, electronics, communication equipment, water purifiers, and shopping malls. Hompan is the prominent company of the Wa people.

The UWSP is derived from the Burma Communist Party (BCP). The UWSP took the Panhsan area, where the BCP headquarters was located, establishing the Wa community.

The Wa community has already agreed to live peacefully and have relations with the Myanmar military. They attended the National Convention in 1993, making negotiations with other ethnic armed groups.

Although they announced the termination of opium cultivation in 2005, the international community still believes that they are producing opium.

Their armed forces have been increasing since 2009 when they have some conflicts with the Myanmar military over the border guard force issues.

You mind telling me what exactly Bangladesh is doing in Myanmar? Where is the Bengali language broadcasts in Arakan? Can Rohingya threaten Burmese government like the Wa can in their demandes for an autonomous state? Ae Rohingya militias controlling large swathes of Arakan like the Wa do in Shan state?

 

[kalu_miah]

I can point out dozens of different lies people have been flinging around on this thread.

@NiceGuy

Vietnam loved Muslims so much, that it invaded Muslim Champa and massacred and genocided almost the entire Cham population who numbered only tens of thousands in their homeland now.

@Banglar Lathial

Japan wont the First Sino Japanese War because of Chinese incompetence, not Japanese strategy or superiority. All the shells used by the Beiyang fleet were filled with sand, cement and junk and bounced off enemy ships. Half the commanders were high on opium and ordered their men to run away when the battle started. The Japanese did not accomplish anything spectacular.

At the Battle of Pyongyang the only compentent commander was the Muslim General Zuo Baogui who led Muslim soldiers against the Japanese. He ordered his men to stand their ground to fight the Japanese and western observers praised his conduct and said that he would have won the Battle if he was in place of his superior officer. He personally led a counterattack on the Japanese until he was killed by Japanese artillery.

The Sino-Japanese War of 1894-1895: Perceptions, Power, and Primacy - S. C. M. Paine - Google Books

Within the Human Realm: The Poetry of Huang Zunxian, 1848-1905 - J. D. Schmidt - Google Books

In the Boxer Rebellion, many of the officers and soldiers in Dong Fuxiang's Gansu army were Muslims. Two Muslim brothers, Ma Fuxiang and Ma Fulu led their soldiers to defeat the Eight Nation Alliance (Japan, America, Russia, Germany, France, Britain, Italy, Austria Hungary) at Langfang and forced them to flee to Tianjin. Ma Fulu and several relatives who were also officers were then killed at the Battle of Beijing (Peking) when a second expedition made its way in.

????????_www.chinalxnet.com

The Gansu soldiers were also responsible for butchering and ripping a Japanese legation chancellor to little pieces. After the war, only an apology was issued and no one was punished for the assasination.

William Scott Ament and the Boxer Rebellion: Heroism, Hubris and the Ideal ... - Larry Clinton Thompson - Google Books

Ma Fuxiang explained the characteristics of his people to a westerner:



In the Land of the Laughing Buddha: The Adventures of an American Barbarian ... - Upton Close - Google Books

@kalu_miah

Japan built good reputation among all Muslims EXCEPT Muslims of China. The Japanese were welcomed in Indonesia and Malaysia with open arms but in China they were welcomed with bullets and swords.

The Muslim General Bai Chongxi was vice commander of the General Staff and he fought many battles against the Japanese.

The Japanese advanced on Suiyuan province was halted by Hui Muslims led by Generals Ma Hongbin and his son Ma Dunjing. They defeated them and prevented their advance into Ningxia province.

Frontier Passages: Ethnopolitics and the Rise of Chinese Communism, 1921-1945 - Xiaoyuan Liu - Google Books

The Muslim warlord of Qinghai, Ma Bufang sent a division commanded by another Muslim General Ma Biao to greet the Japanese with bullets and blood in Henan. The division was made out of Hui, Salar (turkic muslims), Dongxiang (Mongol Muslims), Amdo (Qinghai) Tibetans and Han Chinese. They slaughtered the Japanese whenever they won and if cornered they would commit suicide instead of surrender.

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Even the Uyghurs did not collaborate with Japan during the war. The separaist leader Isa Alptekin in fact advocated for China in Turkey and Arab countries against Japan.



The Muslim World - Google Books

This source mislabels Alptekin as a Hui but its is otherwise correct.

Modern China's Ethnic Frontiers: A Journey to the West - Hsiao-ting Lin - Google Books

Dr. Masud Sabri was another Uyghur on China's State council and Yulbars Khan was in the national military council. Alptekin and Ma Fuliang brought Uyghurs to enlist in China's central military academy during the war with Japan.

Biographical Dictionary of Republican China: Mao-Wu - Google Books

China Magazine - Google Books

You have mentioned some Muslim groups in China who fought with the Japanese, but the full scope of Imperial Japan's strategy in Xinjiang is not clear from your assertion. Here are some details:

The Soviets in Xinjiang (1911-1949)

Sheng justified his alliance with the Soviets by maintaining that Russia was "definitely not an aggressive country," was "ready to aid the weak races in the world," and was "non-aggressive towards Sinkiang," that China could "only be saved and liberated by perpetuating her intimate connection with Russia," that Xinjiang could "never afford to reconstruct itself without the help of Russia," that Xinjiang would "permanently remain a Chinese province if it succeeded in keeping the friendship of Russia," and that only the maintenance of a healthy relationsip with Russia would enable Xinjiang to "tread on the path of anti-imperialism" (Sheng saw Japan as the chief imperialist threat to Xinjiang). 67
The maintenance of "a close Sino-Russian relationship" was quickly put into effect, as Soviet economic and military aid, troops, and advisors poured into the province. Russians were soon involved in everything from oil drilling to education to military training. In the areas that Sheng controlled, mostly in the north, Russian became the main foreign language studied in school, many young people were sent to the USSR to study, atheistic propaganda became commonplace, mosques were converted into social clubs or theatres, and religious leaders were persecuted. A secret treaty is said to have been signed, guaranteeing that the Soviets would assist Xinjiang "politically, economically and by armed force... in case of some external attack upon the province." 68 In the words of a former Soviet advisor in Xinjiang, "According to Stalin's plan, Sinkiang was to become a sphere of exclusive Russian influence and to serve as a bulwark of our power in the east.... Sinkiang was soon a Soviet colony in all but name." 69

In the spring of 1937, rebellion again broke out in southern Xinjiang. A number of factors contributed to the outbreak. In an effort to appease the Turkic Muslims, Sheng had appointed a number of their non-secessionist leaders, including Khoja Niyas Hajji and Yulbars Khan, another leader of the Kumul uprising, to positions of influence in the provincial government, both in Urumchi and Kashgar. At the same time, educational reforms, which attacked basic Islamic principles, and the atheistic propaganda program, which was being extended into the south, were further alienating the local population from Sheng's administration. In Kashgar. Mahmud Shih-chang, a wealthy Muslim and one of Sheng's appointees, became the focal point for opposition to the government. Meanwhile, in Afghanistan, Muhammad Amin Bughra, the exiled leader of the TIRET, had approached the Japanese ambassador in 1935 with "a detailed plan proposing the establishment of an 'Eastern Turkestan Republic' under Japanese sponsorship, with munitions and finance to be supplied by Tokyo.... he suggested as the future leader of this proposed Central Asian 'Manchukuo' none other than Mahmud Shih-chang." However, this plan was aborted when Mahmud, fearful for his life, fled from Kashgar to India in April 1937.

Mahmud's flight sparked an uprising amongst his troops against provincial authorities. Those who were pro-Soviet in any way were executed and yet another independent Muslim administration was set up. As before, this revolt had a decidedly Islamic nature. At the same time, uprisings broke out amongst the Kirghiz near Kucha and once again in Kumul. In this context, Ma Hu-shan decided to make his move from Khotan and captured Kashgar from the rebels in June. However, the situation was not to last long. 5,000 Red Army troops, with airborne and armoured vehicle reinforcements, invited by Sheng to intervene, were already on their way to southern Xinjiang, along with Sheng's forces and mutinous Dungan troops. The Turkic rebels were defeated, Kashgar was retaken and Ma Hu-shan's administration collapsed. By October 1937, with the collapse of the Turkic rebellion and the Dungan "satrapy," Muslim control of the south once again came to an end. Shortly after, the rebellions in Kumul and amongst the Kirghiz were also put down, thus establishing Sheng, for the first time, as the actual ruler of the whole province.

"It soon became apparent, however, that the price of Sheng's supremacy was to be almost complete domination, both politically and economically, of Sinkiang by the Soviet Union." 70 A permanent Red Army unit, the 8th Regiment, was established at Kumul, ostensibly to guard against a possible Japanese strike via Inner Mongolia. Besides accomplishing this purpose, this move also erected a barrier to further influence from the three other forces that could challenge the USSR's control of the province: the GMD government in Nanjing; the "Five Ma" warlord group that controlled the adjacent provinces of Gansu, Qinghai, and Ningxia;71 and the local Muslim population, which had shown such an inclination to rebellion. 72 Soviet military presence in the province was increased as a result of the signing of the Sino-Soviet Non-Agression Pact in August 1937. This agreement guaranteed Soviet military assistance to the Nationalist government, in order to stem the tide of the Japanese invasion of northern China, and the obvious route for transporting arms and military vehicles from the USSR to China lay through Xinjiang. An airplane factory and flying school were soon established in the province.

However, Soviet influence was not only in the military realm. By this time, the economy was virtually completely under the monopoly of the Soviets as well. Besides oil, various other natural resources were being openly exploited by the USSR without the permission of the Nationalist government (which was hardly in a position to object, as it was undergoing the full brunt of the Japanese invasion in the east). The 1940 Tin Mines Agreement gave the Soviets "exclusive rights for the prospection, investigation and exploitation of tin and its ancillary minerals" 73 in the province. The financial reimbursement that Xinjiang received for this exploitation was minimal. At the same time, steps were taken to negate the influence of any other foreign power in Xinjiang. The British authorities, who had long since been eclipsed by the Soviets in terms of influence in Xinjiang, were subjected to increased harassment.

@Banglar Lathial

Imperial Japan's use of racial ties between Japanese, Koreans, Manchu's and Mongols, the following shows the special case of Inner Mongolia:
http://hwww.smhric.org/From domesti...c identity in Xinjiang and Inner Mongolia.pdf

The situation of Inner Mongolia during the Republic of China era (1912–1949) was
extremely complex. Various alignments cut across international, ethnic and ideological
lines, which were all intertwined with Inner Mongolia’s aspiration to more autonomy
(Liu). Some sided with the KMT government in Nanjing, while others sided with the
CCP in Yan’an. Prince De’s self-determination movements, on the other hand, received
active support from the expanding Japanese Empire. The Japanese colonial discourse
during its expansion into Northeast Asia emphasized the racial ties between the Japanese,
the Koreans, the Manchus, and the Mongols (Bulag,Collaborative Nationalism 41). In the
case of the Mongols, Japan even went so far as to claim Genghis Khan as a Japanese hero
so as to legitimize Japan’s colonial expansion, based on the belief that the Mongols were
crucial to its imperial project (Tanaka). Accordingly, Japan found in Prince De an ideal
candidate to gain the cooperation of the Mongols for its Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity
Sphere.
Prince De was born in Shilingol to an aristocratic family that claimed descent from
Genghis Khan, which gave him great legitimacy among his followers to pursue Inner
Mongolian autonomy (Jagchid, The Last Mongol Prince 8). Responding to political
pressure on Inner Mongolia,14 in October 1933, Prince De organized a conference at
Beyile-Yin Sumu (Balingmiao) calling for Inner Mongolian autonomy. Later, in April
1934, he formed a Mongolian Local Autonomous Political Affairs Council (Mengzhenghui) and sent a list of demands to Chiang Kai-shek (Jagchid, The Last Mongol Prince
101). However, due to the weakness of the Mongols, this first attempt at Mongolian autonomy failed. As a result, Prince De was pushed to seek assistance from the invading
954 E. Han
Downloaded by [76.117.208.97] at 14:36 07 February 2013 Japanese army in Manchuria. Supported by the Special Service Offices of the Japanese
Kwantung Army and Japan’s Good Neighbor Association (Zenrin Kyokai), Prince De
managed to set up a Mongolian Military Government (Menggujunzhengfu) on 12 May
1936 (Jagchid, The Last Mongol Prince 149). In November 1937, the Japanese put him
in charge of the newly formed Mongolian Allied League Autonomous Government
(Mengjiang) (Jagchid, The Last Mongol Prince 189). Since then, a series of Inner Mongolian autonomous governments existed while Japan played the role of “supreme advisors.”
However, when the Japanese were defeated in 1945, Prince De’s Mongolian autonomous
government immediately collapsed. By then, he had administered Inner Mongolia for
almost ten years, despite the Japanese occupation (Jagchid, The Last Mongol 318).
After the PRC’s founding in 1949, Prince De fled to Ulaanbaatar, but the MPR soon extradited him back to China due to the alliance between the Soviet Union and the new communist regime in Beijing. The Inner Mongolian self-determination movements that Price
De led exemplified the peak of Inner Mongolian nationalism.15Due to the weakness of the
Mongols, their chance to achieve political autonomy depended heavily on the amount of
external support they could find. Yet, the support from Japan during the 1930s and 1940s
proved to be the only time a big power was willing to help Inner Mongolia’s cause, despite
Japan’s own imperial motives.

 

[kalu_miah]

I also have something on topic to post.

Japan and the West are deepening their relations against Myanmar in order to use it as a proxy against China and pry its resources away from China's grip. Japan especially is deepening economic and political ties and like India it never stopped its relations duringnthe Junta era even while the West had sanctions on them.

China's proxy in Myanmar against the Burmese is the United Wa State Army. Their autonomy is a red line for China and the Burmese have to let them operate freely in Wa State. China has been backing them for decades and exerting cultural influence on them.

The Wa state uses Chinese currency, Chinese cellphone coverage and Chinese language for television. They educate their children in Chinese. The official languages of Wa state are Chinese and Wa, not Burmese. Their leaders have Chinese names, not Burmese names.

?????? - ?

» Wa

China supplies military support to the United Wa State Army

With Burma in Mind, China Quietly Supports Wa Rebels - One News Page [US]

With Burma in Mind, China Quietly Supports Wa Rebels

Los Angeles Times: Archives - OPIUM; Myanmar Tries to Kick Its Habit

Founding of Wa State can spark confusion | democracy for burma

You mind telling me what exactly Bangladesh is doing in Myanmar? Where is the Bengali language broadcasts in Arakan? Can Rohingya threaten Burmese government like the Wa can in their demandes for an autonomous state? Ae Rohingya militias controlling large swathes of Arakan like the Wa do in Shan state?

@asad71 We need your kind input and expertise to answer the question above.

How about China's role in South Tibet, if any. Liberating South Tibet would be beneficial for all 3 countries around it.

If China takes an interest in Arakan project, I am sure things could be moving quickly. But we have an Indian puppet sitting in power in Bangladesh, first that has to be removed before anything positive can happen.

Japan's current alliance with the US, I believe is negatively affecting many countries in Asia. Unless Japan starts following a more independent track, nothing positive will come out of Japan and the countries that would like to ally with Japan.

 

[Banglar Lathial]

@Banglar Lathial

Imperial Japan's use of racial ties between Japanese, Koreans, Manchu's and Mongols, the following shows the special case of Inner Mongolia:
http://hwww.smhric.org/From domesti...c identity in Xinjiang and Inner Mongolia.pdf

The situation of Inner Mongolia during the Republic of China era (1912–1949) was
extremely complex. Various alignments cut across international, ethnic and ideological
lines, which were all intertwined with Inner Mongolia’s aspiration to more autonomy
(Liu). Some sided with the KMT government in Nanjing, while others sided with the
CCP in Yan’an. Prince De’s self-determination movements, on the other hand, received
active support from the expanding Japanese Empire. The Japanese colonial discourse
during its expansion into Northeast Asia emphasized the racial ties between the Japanese,
the Koreans, the Manchus, and the Mongols (Bulag,Collaborative Nationalism 41). In the
case of the Mongols, Japan even went so far as to claim Genghis Khan as a Japanese hero
so as to legitimize Japan’s colonial expansion, based on the belief that the Mongols were
crucial to its imperial project (Tanaka). Accordingly, Japan found in Prince De an ideal
candidate to gain the cooperation of the Mongols for its Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity
Sphere.
Prince De was born in Shilingol to an aristocratic family that claimed descent from
Genghis Khan, which gave him great legitimacy among his followers to pursue Inner
Mongolian autonomy (Jagchid, The Last Mongol Prince 8). Responding to political
pressure on Inner Mongolia,14 in October 1933, Prince De organized a conference at
Beyile-Yin Sumu (Balingmiao) calling for Inner Mongolian autonomy. Later, in April
1934, he formed a Mongolian Local Autonomous Political Affairs Council (Mengzhenghui) and sent a list of demands to Chiang Kai-shek (Jagchid, The Last Mongol Prince
101). However, due to the weakness of the Mongols, this first attempt at Mongolian autonomy failed. As a result, Prince De was pushed to seek assistance from the invading
954 E. Han
Downloaded by [76.117.208.97] at 14:36 07 February 2013 Japanese army in Manchuria. Supported by the Special Service Offices of the Japanese
Kwantung Army and Japan’s Good Neighbor Association (Zenrin Kyokai), Prince De
managed to set up a Mongolian Military Government (Menggujunzhengfu) on 12 May
1936 (Jagchid, The Last Mongol Prince 149). In November 1937, the Japanese put him
in charge of the newly formed Mongolian Allied League Autonomous Government
(Mengjiang) (Jagchid, The Last Mongol Prince 189). Since then, a series of Inner Mongolian autonomous governments existed while Japan played the role of “supreme advisors.”
However, when the Japanese were defeated in 1945, Prince De’s Mongolian autonomous
government immediately collapsed. By then, he had administered Inner Mongolia for
almost ten years, despite the Japanese occupation (Jagchid, The Last Mongol 318).
After the PRC’s founding in 1949, Prince De fled to Ulaanbaatar, but the MPR soon extradited him back to China due to the alliance between the Soviet Union and the new communist regime in Beijing. The Inner Mongolian self-determination movements that Price
De led exemplified the peak of Inner Mongolian nationalism.15Due to the weakness of the
Mongols, their chance to achieve political autonomy depended heavily on the amount of
external support they could find. Yet, the support from Japan during the 1930s and 1940s
proved to be the only time a big power was willing to help Inner Mongolia’s cause, despite
Japan’s own imperial motives.

That's all good, can you tell me what is that supposed to address?

I am just seeking clarification. Nothing else.

 

[Banglar Lathial]

Japan's current alliance with the US, I believe is negatively affecting many countries in Asia. Unless Japan starts following a more independent track, nothing positive will come out of Japan and the countries that would like to ally with Japan.

It's not just that.

Japan's re-militarization can not be postponed indefinitely. Otherwise, they would be left way too far behind to ever pose a deterrent effect against its counterparts.

The political problems arise because all countries from Russia, China, North Korea to South Korea and maybe Taiwan (not sure about Taiwan) will kick up a fuss if Japan re-militarizes.

And, we need to see active moves from Bangladesh and some big ASEAN countries towards that aim. We can not expect them to welcome us into an alliance led by them, when there has been no effort to propose such an alliance or partnership of some sort.

A good starting point is lifting up its weapons exports ban. ToT (transfer of technology) should be sought for its Soryu submarines, AESA radar technology, ASW and MPA aircrafts (needed for Bangladesh's maritime security), space rocket (implications for Bangladesh's strategic deterrence delivery method) technology, and some "big" ships from their coast guard.

Their coast guard's Shikishima patrol vessel displaces more than the largest planned surface warship in the inventory of our arch nemesis. Rather than some outdated American junk Coast Guard vessel, we could actually make good use of knowledge of their aircraft carrier/LHD building capability, their shipbuilding, electronics, robotics/AI, space science, materials science, automotive, nanotechnology and maglev technology (it may sound optimistic, I am just pointing out the immense possibilities), and in return, they would have access to a large, populous, reliable, relatively homogeneous (if and only if, all the 600,000+ Hindustani RAW agents are cleansed, along with their associates, and all 'links' with Hindostan are permanently cut off) market growing briskly, along with another 600 million+ populated ASEAN, if you like.



Third, there is no "Indian puppet" in power, it is a full on Hindutva extremist terrorist organization placed in power BY THE USA, because idiotic Americans did not have brains of their own and mostly understood no language other than English, so they sought advice from Kafir, English speaking historical slaves with low IQ, and installed BAL.

 

[Wholegrain]

You have mentioned some Muslim groups in China who fought with the Japanese, but the full scope of Imperial Japan's strategy in Xinjiang is not clear from your assertion. Here are some details:

The Soviets in Xinjiang (1911-1949)

Sheng justified his alliance with the Soviets by maintaining that Russia was "definitely not an aggressive country," was "ready to aid the weak races in the world," and was "non-aggressive towards Sinkiang," that China could "only be saved and liberated by perpetuating her intimate connection with Russia," that Xinjiang could "never afford to reconstruct itself without the help of Russia," that Xinjiang would "permanently remain a Chinese province if it succeeded in keeping the friendship of Russia," and that only the maintenance of a healthy relationsip with Russia would enable Xinjiang to "tread on the path of anti-imperialism" (Sheng saw Japan as the chief imperialist threat to Xinjiang). 67
The maintenance of "a close Sino-Russian relationship" was quickly put into effect, as Soviet economic and military aid, troops, and advisors poured into the province. Russians were soon involved in everything from oil drilling to education to military training. In the areas that Sheng controlled, mostly in the north, Russian became the main foreign language studied in school, many young people were sent to the USSR to study, atheistic propaganda became commonplace, mosques were converted into social clubs or theatres, and religious leaders were persecuted. A secret treaty is said to have been signed, guaranteeing that the Soviets would assist Xinjiang "politically, economically and by armed force... in case of some external attack upon the province." 68 In the words of a former Soviet advisor in Xinjiang, "According to Stalin's plan, Sinkiang was to become a sphere of exclusive Russian influence and to serve as a bulwark of our power in the east.... Sinkiang was soon a Soviet colony in all but name." 69

In the spring of 1937, rebellion again broke out in southern Xinjiang. A number of factors contributed to the outbreak. In an effort to appease the Turkic Muslims, Sheng had appointed a number of their non-secessionist leaders, including Khoja Niyas Hajji and Yulbars Khan, another leader of the Kumul uprising, to positions of influence in the provincial government, both in Urumchi and Kashgar. At the same time, educational reforms, which attacked basic Islamic principles, and the atheistic propaganda program, which was being extended into the south, were further alienating the local population from Sheng's administration. In Kashgar. Mahmud Shih-chang, a wealthy Muslim and one of Sheng's appointees, became the focal point for opposition to the government. Meanwhile, in Afghanistan, Muhammad Amin Bughra, the exiled leader of the TIRET, had approached the Japanese ambassador in 1935 with "a detailed plan proposing the establishment of an 'Eastern Turkestan Republic' under Japanese sponsorship, with munitions and finance to be supplied by Tokyo.... he suggested as the future leader of this proposed Central Asian 'Manchukuo' none other than Mahmud Shih-chang." However, this plan was aborted when Mahmud, fearful for his life, fled from Kashgar to India in April 1937.

Mahmud's flight sparked an uprising amongst his troops against provincial authorities. Those who were pro-Soviet in any way were executed and yet another independent Muslim administration was set up. As before, this revolt had a decidedly Islamic nature. At the same time, uprisings broke out amongst the Kirghiz near Kucha and once again in Kumul. In this context, Ma Hu-shan decided to make his move from Khotan and captured Kashgar from the rebels in June. However, the situation was not to last long. 5,000 Red Army troops, with airborne and armoured vehicle reinforcements, invited by Sheng to intervene, were already on their way to southern Xinjiang, along with Sheng's forces and mutinous Dungan troops. The Turkic rebels were defeated, Kashgar was retaken and Ma Hu-shan's administration collapsed. By October 1937, with the collapse of the Turkic rebellion and the Dungan "satrapy," Muslim control of the south once again came to an end. Shortly after, the rebellions in Kumul and amongst the Kirghiz were also put down, thus establishing Sheng, for the first time, as the actual ruler of the whole province.

"It soon became apparent, however, that the price of Sheng's supremacy was to be almost complete domination, both politically and economically, of Sinkiang by the Soviet Union." 70 A permanent Red Army unit, the 8th Regiment, was established at Kumul, ostensibly to guard against a possible Japanese strike via Inner Mongolia. Besides accomplishing this purpose, this move also erected a barrier to further influence from the three other forces that could challenge the USSR's control of the province: the GMD government in Nanjing; the "Five Ma" warlord group that controlled the adjacent provinces of Gansu, Qinghai, and Ningxia;71 and the local Muslim population, which had shown such an inclination to rebellion. 72 Soviet military presence in the province was increased as a result of the signing of the Sino-Soviet Non-Agression Pact in August 1937. This agreement guaranteed Soviet military assistance to the Nationalist government, in order to stem the tide of the Japanese invasion of northern China, and the obvious route for transporting arms and military vehicles from the USSR to China lay through Xinjiang. An airplane factory and flying school were soon established in the province.

However, Soviet influence was not only in the military realm. By this time, the economy was virtually completely under the monopoly of the Soviets as well. Besides oil, various other natural resources were being openly exploited by the USSR without the permission of the Nationalist government (which was hardly in a position to object, as it was undergoing the full brunt of the Japanese invasion in the east). The 1940 Tin Mines Agreement gave the Soviets "exclusive rights for the prospection, investigation and exploitation of tin and its ancillary minerals" 73 in the province. The financial reimbursement that Xinjiang received for this exploitation was minimal. At the same time, steps were taken to negate the influence of any other foreign power in Xinjiang. The British authorities, who had long since been eclipsed by the Soviets in terms of influence in Xinjiang, were subjected to increased harassment.

@Banglar Lathial

Imperial Japan's use of racial ties between Japanese, Koreans, Manchu's and Mongols, the following shows the special case of Inner Mongolia:
http://hwww.smhric.org/From domesti...c identity in Xinjiang and Inner Mongolia.pdf

The situation of Inner Mongolia during the Republic of China era (1912–1949) was
extremely complex. Various alignments cut across international, ethnic and ideological
lines, which were all intertwined with Inner Mongolia’s aspiration to more autonomy
(Liu). Some sided with the KMT government in Nanjing, while others sided with the
CCP in Yan’an. Prince De’s self-determination movements, on the other hand, received
active support from the expanding Japanese Empire. The Japanese colonial discourse
during its expansion into Northeast Asia emphasized the racial ties between the Japanese,
the Koreans, the Manchus, and the Mongols (Bulag,Collaborative Nationalism 41). In the
case of the Mongols, Japan even went so far as to claim Genghis Khan as a Japanese hero
so as to legitimize Japan’s colonial expansion, based on the belief that the Mongols were
crucial to its imperial project (Tanaka). Accordingly, Japan found in Prince De an ideal
candidate to gain the cooperation of the Mongols for its Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity
Sphere.
Prince De was born in Shilingol to an aristocratic family that claimed descent from
Genghis Khan, which gave him great legitimacy among his followers to pursue Inner
Mongolian autonomy (Jagchid, The Last Mongol Prince 8). Responding to political
pressure on Inner Mongolia,14 in October 1933, Prince De organized a conference at
Beyile-Yin Sumu (Balingmiao) calling for Inner Mongolian autonomy. Later, in April
1934, he formed a Mongolian Local Autonomous Political Affairs Council (Mengzhenghui) and sent a list of demands to Chiang Kai-shek (Jagchid, The Last Mongol Prince
101). However, due to the weakness of the Mongols, this first attempt at Mongolian autonomy failed. As a result, Prince De was pushed to seek assistance from the invading
954 E. Han
Downloaded by [76.117.208.97] at 14:36 07 February 2013 Japanese army in Manchuria. Supported by the Special Service Offices of the Japanese
Kwantung Army and Japan’s Good Neighbor Association (Zenrin Kyokai), Prince De
managed to set up a Mongolian Military Government (Menggujunzhengfu) on 12 May
1936 (Jagchid, The Last Mongol Prince 149). In November 1937, the Japanese put him
in charge of the newly formed Mongolian Allied League Autonomous Government
(Mengjiang) (Jagchid, The Last Mongol Prince 189). Since then, a series of Inner Mongolian autonomous governments existed while Japan played the role of “supreme advisors.”
However, when the Japanese were defeated in 1945, Prince De’s Mongolian autonomous
government immediately collapsed. By then, he had administered Inner Mongolia for
almost ten years, despite the Japanese occupation (Jagchid, The Last Mongol 318).
After the PRC’s founding in 1949, Prince De fled to Ulaanbaatar, but the MPR soon extradited him back to China due to the alliance between the Soviet Union and the new communist regime in Beijing. The Inner Mongolian self-determination movements that Price
De led exemplified the peak of Inner Mongolian nationalism.15Due to the weakness of the
Mongols, their chance to achieve political autonomy depended heavily on the amount of
external support they could find. Yet, the support from Japan during the 1930s and 1940s
proved to be the only time a big power was willing to help Inner Mongolia’s cause, despite
Japan’s own imperial motives.

Japan backed Pan Turkists from Turkey who were involved in advising the First East Turkestan Republic. That is how they got connected with Muhammad Amin Bughra. Hui Muslims defeated the Uyghurs in Kashgar in 1934 and caused the Republic to collapse, thats when Isa Aptekin and Masud Sabri fled from the Hui and joined the Chinese government at the capital.

Bughra was chased by the Hui all the way to British India and he entered Afghanistan from there. (Both of his brothers got their heads cut off by the Hui) He didn't play any role besides spying for Japan and he got arrested by the British.

After Alptekin was done with his anti-Japan tour in Turkey and the Middle East, China ordered Alptekin to pick Bughra up to join China. Bughra then joined the Chinese government and participated in the national assembly and then was appointed vice chairman in xinjiang.

Modern China's Ethnic Frontiers: A Journey to the West - Hsiao-ting Lin - Google Books

Most Uyghur separatists like Isa Alptekin, Masud Sabri and others sided with China during the war and eventually Muhammad Amin Bughra was persuaded to join. The war started in 1937 and Alptekin and the other Uyghur seperatists were already with the Chinese government.

We have very different cultural groups of Muslims in China. The Hui are sinicized and speak Chinese. The current government in China allows some Hui sects in Ningxia virtual free reign and a Sufi Hui leader was allowed to even hear from Bin Laden and not get into trouble.

Faith flourishes in an arid wasteland | South China Morning Post

The Salars and Dongxiang are semi sinicized. The Salars are Turkic muslims who migrated to China 700 years ago when the Mongols took over China and their Tusi (chiefs) submitted to the Ming dynasty. The Dongxiang are Mongol Muslims who settled in Gansu. Both of them are not nomadic, but sedentary. They Salars mixed extensively with Chinese and Tibetans and their language is influnced by Chinese and Tibetan. The Dongxiang mixed extensively with Chinese and central asians, not as much with Tibetans. Both groups use Chinese first and last names and have a separate Muslim name like the Hui.

The Salar know they came from Turkmenistan and there is no separatist movement among them. They are the majority in Xunhua County of Qinghai. Any conflict they had was purely sectarian, because the Jahriyya Sufism spread among the Salar and caused them to fight with other Muslim sects and rebel against the state. There was no Pan turkic movement like the Uyghurs had. (In Jahriyya Sufism, the leader commands almost prophet like status and is seen as nearly infallible). The Dongxiang and Hui both had only sectarian conflicts too. Jahriyya Sufis rebelled agaisnt the state while the state and other Muslims (khufiyya Sufis and non Sufi sunnis) helped the state crush the revolts.

During World War 2, most Hui, Salars, and Dongxiang were reliable in fighting against Japan. There was no pan turkic or other BS propaganda that could make them rebel.

The Uyghur on the other hand are not sinicized. They don't use Chinese names. Their language is not influenced by Chinese. Hui Mosques looked like Chinese temples. Uyghur mosque look like central asian architecture. Their rebellion in 1933 was inspired by Pan Turkic racialism and they attacked Hui people for not being Turkic in that rebellion.

And about the Inner Mongolians, the Hui soldiers under Ma Hongbin fought against both the Japanese and their inner mongolian allies.

The Salar and Dongxiang (tunghsiang) were known for doing military service in China's armies.

The Moslem World - Google Books

Salar: A Study in Inner Asian Language Contact Processes. Phonology - Arienne M. Dwyer - Google Books

Sheng Shicai was a Soviet puppet and the Soviet Union was also an enemy of China. China sent soldiers to infiltrate Xinjiang and forced Sheng to expel the Soviets and retook control of the province. During the war with Japan, the Soviet Union supported Uyghur communists under Ehmetjan Qasim to rebel against China in the Ili Rebellion in 1944 and set up a Soviet client state, the Second East Turkestan Republic. Qasim was a Uyghur member of the Soviet Communist party.

China sent soldiers, including Hui and Salar Muslims to fight against the Uyghur and Soviets during the Ili Rebellion. A ceasefure was reached in 1946. The Hui and Salar then clashed against the Mongolians and Soviets in the Beitashan incident. Ma Chengxiang (a Hui) and Han Youwen (a salar) were both serving in the Chinese army in these wars. Han wrote a letter (in chinese) to Ma after several decades (at the end of the civil war Han Youwen defected to the communists and became a vice chairman in Xinjiang, Ma fled to Taiwan)

Âí³ÊÏéÔÚÀÏÂú³Ç֮ʮ£¨Ô*´´£© - ȻҲµÄÈÕÖ¾ - ÍøÒײ©¿Í

In "The Marching Wind" Leonard Francis Clark describes a mountaineering expedition in Qinghai. Several Salar officers were assigned by Governor Ma Bufang to join him. Several of these Salars fought in the Chinese army against Japan during the war and against the Russians, and then the Communists in the Civil War. (tungan is another name for Hui Muslims). One of the Salar officers was described in the book:

He had fought against, and killed, according to Colonel Ma, Russians, Japanese, Mongols, Turks, Tibetans, Tungans, and Chinese bandits and Communists. Abdul— to my surprise— claimed that night that Tibetans were by far the smartest and most dangerous of all Asiatic soldiery including the Japanese

 

[ViXuyen]

It's not just that.

Japan's re-militarization can not be postponed indefinitely. Otherwise, they would be left way too far behind to ever pose a deterrent effect against its counterparts.

The political problems arise because all countries from Russia, China, North Korea to South Korea and maybe Taiwan (not sure about Taiwan) will kick up a fuss if Japan re-militarizes.

And, we need to see active moves from Bangladesh and some big ASEAN countries towards that aim. We can not expect them to welcome us into an alliance led by them, when there has been no effort to propose such an alliance or partnership of some sort.

A good starting point is lifting up its weapons exports ban. ToT (transfer of technology) should be sought for its Soryu submarines, AESA radar technology, ASW and MPA aircrafts (needed for Bangladesh's maritime security), space rocket (implications for Bangladesh's strategic deterrence delivery method) technology, and some "big" ships from their coast guard.

Their coast guard's Shikishima patrol vessel displaces more than the largest planned surface warship in the inventory of our arch nemesis. Rather than some outdated American junk Coast Guard vessel, we could actually make good use of knowledge of their aircraft carrier/LHD building capability, their shipbuilding, electronics, robotics/AI, space science, materials science, automotive, nanotechnology and maglev technology (it may sound optimistic, I am just pointing out the immense possibilities), and in return, they would have access to a large, populous, reliable, relatively homogeneous (if and only if, all the 600,000+ Hindustani RAW agents are cleansed, along with their associates, and all 'links' with Hindostan are permanently cut off) market growing briskly, along with another 600 million+ populated ASEAN, if you like.



Third, there is no "Indian puppet" in power, it is a full on Hindutva extremist terrorist organization placed in power BY THE USA, because idiotic Americans did not have brains of their own and mostly understood no language other than English, so they sought advice from Kafir, English speaking historical slaves with low IQ, and installed BAL.

Japan is the last country that you can ask for technology transfer, you're hopelessly asking for something that will never happen.

 

[Banglar Lathial]

Japan is the last country that you can ask for technology transfer, you're hopelessly asking for something that will never happen.

Any particular reason?

I am hoping it's not the ban on arms export you are talking about, because I was talking about transfer of technology only if ban on arms export has been lifted.

Do elaborate, why should Japan deny tech transfer?

 

[Wholegrain]

@asad71 We need your kind input and expertise to answer the question above.

How about China's role in South Tibet, if any. Liberating South Tibet would be beneficial for all 3 countries around it.

If China takes an interest in Arakan project, I am sure things could be moving quickly. But we have an Indian puppet sitting in power in Bangladesh, first that has to be removed before anything positive can happen.

Japan's current alliance with the US, I believe is negatively affecting many countries in Asia. Unless Japan starts following a more independent track, nothing positive will come out of Japan and the countries that would like to ally with Japan.

There were insurgencies in Manipur, Mizoram, Nagaland, and Assam. If they were succesful the Indian army would be totally cut off from south Tibet. The entire northeast India was full of insurgents.

By the way Arakan is on the other side of Myanmar and China has absolutely no access.

 

[ViXuyen]

Any particular reason?

I am hoping it's not the ban on arms export you are talking about, because I was talking about transfer of technology only if ban on arms export has been lifted.

Do elaborate, why should Japan deny tech transfer?

Maybe you're not aware but the Japanese do not transfer technologies for fear of creating another "Japan" ie their potential competitors in the future.

Let me tell you this story, in the 1980's, Viet Nam hired Japanese specialists to Viet Nam to fix some industrial machineries. However, Japanese specialists would not allow Vietnamese to see how they fix the machine. Just tells you the degree of Japanese in keeping or leaking their technology.

Fast forward to 2010's, Japan lobbied to have the Vietnamese government spend $50billion USD to build the high-speed rail using Japanese as the contractor. However, Japan would not transfer technologies to Vietnam to produce our own high-speed rail. Back in 2008/09, Viet Nam offered to buy the first Japanese-made passenger jets with the condition that Japan would transfer technologies for Viet Nam to produce 30% of the jet; Japan rejected.

Japan had a major joint effort with the Malaysian government to produce the national car Proton. But guess what, Japan failed short of transfering the engine manufacturing technologies to Malaysia. Hence; Proton had to install the Mitsubishi engine instead of having the ability to produce the engine themselves.

Why do you think Germany and France won the contracts to build China's and Korea's first high-speed rail and not Japan? Because both Germany and France were willing to transfer technologies. Why do you think Korea won the $40 billion nuclear contract in UAE and not Japan? Because the Korean agreed to transfer cruise missiles and UAV tech to UAE while Japan did not offer any tech transfer. Japan is only interested in selling you their products; they will never transfer you the technologies so you can make the same products that they are selling you.

 

[Banglar Lathial]

Maybe you're not aware but the Japanese do not transfer technologies for fear of creating another "Japan" ie their potential competitors in the future.

Let me tell you this story, in the 1980's, Viet Nam hired Japanese specialists to Viet Nam to fix some industrial machineries. However, Japanese specialists would not allow Vietnamese to see how they fix the machine. Just tells you the degree of Japanese in keeping or leaking their technology.

Fast forward to 2010's, Japan lobbied to have the Vietnamese government spend $50billion USD to build the high-speed rail using Japanese as the contractor. However, Japan would not transfer technologies to Vietnam to produce our own high-speed rail. Back in 2008/09, Viet Nam offered to buy the first Japanese-made passenger jets with the condition that Japan would transfer technologies for Viet Nam to produce 30% of the jet; Japan rejected.

Japan had a major joint effort with the Malaysian government to produce the national car Proton. But guess what, Japan failed short of transfering the engine manufacturing technologies to Malaysia. Hence; Proton had to install the Mitsubishi engine instead of having the ability to produce the engine themselves.

Why do you think Germany and France won the contracts to build China's and Korea's first high-speed rail and not Japan? Because both Germany and France were willing to transfer technologies. Why do you think Korea won the $40 billion nuclear contract in UAE and not Japan? Because the Korean agreed to transfer cruise missiles and UAV tech to UAE while Japan did not offer any tech transfer. Japan is only interested in selling you their products; they will never transfer you the technologies so you can make the same products that they are selling you.

Thanks for your input.

But, I think you are only selecting those experiences that suit the narrative. Vietnam's case may have been different, because you are a Communist country.

http://www.ide.go.jp/English/Research/Net/pdf/Mizuno_Report.pdf


http://www.nber.org/chapters/c8077.pdf

In the case of Japanese direct investment in Korea’s chemical in-
dustry, for example, the number of such high-tech projects as biotechnology
and pharmaceuticals has increased (JETRO 1991, 146). Somsak (1991) also
documented the fact that Japanese direct investment in Thailand has markedly
increased in the fields of capital goods and intermediate electronic and electri-
cal products.

Direct investment has not been the only channel of technology transfer from
Japan. Since the mid-l980s, other channels have been adopted, including li-
censing arrangements, production cooperation, and OEM. Japanese firms
seem to adopt different channels of technology transfer depending on the gen-
eral technological level as well as the degree of political or economic risk in
host countries. Table 9.3 provides some evidence for this point. The table
summarizes the forms (channels) of technology transfer by Japanese firms
during the first two and a half years since the value of the yen started its sharp
rise. The table suggests that direct investment is important in Asian NIEs and
ASEAN countries while licensing arrangements and production cooperation
have been chosen mainly for the Chinese market. OEM has so far appeared
only in Asian NIEs. This may be explained by the relatively high technologi-
cal levels of firms in NIEs, compared to those in other Asian developing coun-
tries. Along with the accumulation of managerial resources, many firms in
NIEs have preferred OEM-type technology transfers over FDI, which results
in management control by MNCS.~ In terms of the cost of buying technology,
OEM is also much cheaper than licensing arrangements are. From the point
of view of Japanese firms, the attainment of a high technological level by
firms in NIEs is a precondition for transfer through the OEM channel because
of the need to ensure product quality, as mentioned in section 9.1 above......
.....
....
Three points emerge from this table. First, Korea, Taiwan, Thailand, and Ma-
laysia have been the major markets for Japan’s machinery-related technolo-
gies, followed by China and Indonesia. Second, for most countries, about 40
percent or more of the projects were conducted during the latest five-year pe-
riod. This, again, confirms the aggressive behavior of Japanese firms regard-
ing technology transfer to Asia following the sharp rise in the value of the
yen. Third, the concentration of technology transfer in that period was more
pronounced in ASEAN countries like Thailand and Malaysia than in NIEs
such as Taiwan and Korea. Since machinery-related technologies can be con-
sidered to be more sophisticated than those found in other industries such as
textiles and foodstuffs, this suggests that Japanese firms have an increasingly
strong interest in exporting high technologies to ASEAN’s growing econo-
mies.

In sum, since the latter half of the 1980s, technology transfer by Japanese
firms of all sizes to the Asian Pacific region has been actively conducted
through various channels. Among the technologies transferred, sophisticated 255 Technology Transfer in the Asian Pacific Region
technologies such as those relating to electrical and electronic products have
played an increasingly important role...

 

[ViXuyen]

Thanks for your input.

But, I think you are only selecting those experiences that suit the narrative. Vietnam's case may have been different, because you are a Communist country.

http://www.ide.go.jp/English/Research/Net/pdf/Mizuno_Report.pdf


http://www.nber.org/chapters/c8077.pdf

Even with other non-communist countries, you can see that Japan does not transfer technologies (the significant ones).

 

[asad71]

@asad71 We need your kind input and expertise to answer the question above.

How about China's role in South Tibet, if any. Liberating South Tibet would be beneficial for all 3 countries around it.

If China takes an interest in Arakan project, I am sure things could be moving quickly. But we have an Indian puppet sitting in power in Bangladesh, first that has to be removed before anything positive can happen.

Japan's current alliance with the US, I believe is negatively affecting many countries in Asia. Unless Japan starts following a more independent track, nothing positive will come out of Japan and the countries that would like to ally with Japan.

1. From Qasim Raja of the Purukhya Party to Ja'afar Sani, Ja'afar Qawal and now Dr Mohammad Yunus the Rohingyas have never stopped their struggle. There was a brief cease-fire in the 1960's, but that ended with Burmese treachery.

2. Throughout history Arakan was invaded by the Burmese whenever Bengal was weak. Again it was always with the help of Bengal that Arkanese could expel the Burmese. The Rohingyas therefore need the support of BD. Without BD's support their insurgency cannot succeed. As the Turks have learnt recently and Pakistan-S Arabia in 1992, none can deliver any assistance to the Rohingyas unless BD is on board.

3. Burma was the farthest that the Imperial Army of Japan had reached in WW II. Burma was key to Japan's Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere (大東亜共栄圏 Dai-tō-a Kyōeiken). Burmese military officers trained by Japan during WW II had ruled Burma for many decades. Japan has never lost interest in or touch with this Buddhist country. In short Japan- Burma friendship never waned. The Americans have reaped benefit out of this.

4. Beside the immense untapped natural resources, Burma is the largest producer of drugs. USA is the largest market. Money flows through Singapore into US banks which would be badly dented if this chain were disrupted. It is this influential drug-baking lobby that Burma and USA used to keep in touch always.

5. Burma has some indigenous Jews. Israel has always been very active in Burma from the days both were shunned by many nations. Israel has been another conduit beside Singapore for Burma's links with the West.

6. The Chinese and the Burmese have had issues between them always. Kublai Khan had annexed Burma and installed a Muslim general as the governor. Descendents of this Chinese Muslim Army are found in northern Burma today. Ne Win's mom was Chinese. His favorite wife was Chinese. But these did not stop him from conducting the ant-Chinese riots in the '60s. Almost all the Chinese were expelled with many massacred. Their properties and businesses were occupied by the Burmans. After the Tien Mien Square incident China was under clouds in the international arena forcing her to go gaga with Burma.

7. The Burmese have always been deceitful and treacherous in their dealings with others. Strange it may sound, but whenever a new king or ruler took over in Burma all past laws, treaties, etc were considered null and void. Chinese must know these things but are discovering these afresh.

8. A Chinese interest in S Tibet and Indian NE cannot be considered in isolation from an interest in Arakan which commands the northern Bay and is like a wall shielding Arakan Yoma approaches into NE. Interests of BD, China, Indonesia and Malaysia in the Moluccas should converge on a common interest in Andaman-Nicobar. A-N is a Muslim majority group of islands that should have gone either to Indonesia or Pakistan (BD) in 1947. Today India has built up Fortress Andaman as its only joint forces command to create tension at the mouth of the Moluccas.

9. After China has totally consolidated herself in Tibet, liberation of Sikkim and S Tibet should follow automatically.