General Chuck Yeager and the Pakistan Air Force

[gslv mk3]

And i have presented a breakdown proving how you or rather India always come up with lame explanations and excuses.

Do you expect 'thanks' & 'positive ratings' ?
Stop being a drama queen.

 

[Windjammer]

Do you expect 'thanks' & 'positive ratings' ?
Stop being a drama queen.

Save your pats for your country fellows and as for the rest, your post proves your drama devi attitude.

And we know this isn't true.

 

[gslv mk3]

Save your pats for your country fellows and as for the rest, your post proves your drama devi attitude.

Huh,typical drama queen.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Huh,typical drama queen.

Don't waste your time.

He used to irritate me. Then I found that his whole mission in life was self-publicity, and an attempt to fill up a lonely life by pretending to be at the centre of affairs. Even other Pakistanis laugh and try to change the subject when his antics come up for discussion.

Ignore him. Move on.

 

[Vinod2070]

Huh,typical drama queen.

Who Won the Air War in 1971?

This issue was discussed in detail in this thread as well. People just keep bringing up these things as they just need to.

The reality is just too painful, try to scavenge whatever little happiness you can, even if it is based on tripe.

So the fact of losing the majority of your country in the 1971 war becomes a minor issue, the claim of "winning" the air war becomes the real thing.

This when the reality of the air war is like this:

By the end of the first week of the war, PAF fighters in the West appeared to have lost their will to fight. By this time, the IAF was repeatedly hitting secondary targets including railway yards, cantonments, bridges and other installations as well as providing close air support to the Army wherever it was required. The most dangerous were the close air support missions which involved flying low and exposing aircraft to intense ground fire. The IAF lost the most aircraft on these missions as is proved by the high losses suffered by IAF Sukhoi-7 and Hunter squadrons. But their pilots flew sortie after sortie keeping up with the Army and disrupting enemy troop and tank concentrations.

Once it was known that the Indian Army was knocking at the gates of Dhaka, the PAF in the West virtually gave up flying. During the last few days of the war, the IAF brass ordered attacks on PAF airfields with the sole purpose of drawing out their aircraft. But that rarely succeeded as the PAF aircraft for the most part remained secured inside their pens, refusing to come out and fight. The strongest indictment of the Pakistani Air Force was made not by an Indian but by the Pakistani leader, Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, who took over from General Yahya Yahya Khan after the 1971 defeat. On taking over, he made a speech in which he castigated the PAF chief Air Marshal Rahim Khan and several other officers by name.

A better analysis of effectiveness of the two air forces is provided by the losses per sortie figure. The IAF flew at least double the number of combat sorties per day than the PAF, thereby exposing itself to ground fire and enemy interdiction. Despite this, the IAF's attrition rate of 0.86 per 100 sorties during the 1971 War compares favourably with the Israeli rate of 1.1 in the Yom Kippur War. The PAF's overall attrition rate works out to 2.47 (including transporters and recce aircraft lost on the ground). If aircraft destroyed on the ground are not taken into account, the rate works out to 1.12, which is still very high given that PAF aircraft never really stood back to fight.

 

[SQ8]

Who Won the Air War in 1971?

This issue was discussed in detail in this thread as well. People just keep bringing up these things as they just need to.

The reality is just too painful, try to scavenge whatever little happiness you can, even if it is based on tripe.

So the fact of losing the majority of your country in the 1971 war becomes a minor issue, the claim of "winning" the air war becomes the real thing.

This when the reality of the air war is like this:

By the end of the first week of the war, PAF fighters in the West appeared to have lost their will to fight. By this time, the IAF was repeatedly hitting secondary targets including railway yards, cantonments, bridges and other installations as well as providing close air support to the Army wherever it was required. The most dangerous were the close air support missions which involved flying low and exposing aircraft to intense ground fire. The IAF lost the most aircraft on these missions as is proved by the high losses suffered by IAF Sukhoi-7 and Hunter squadrons. But their pilots flew sortie after sortie keeping up with the Army and disrupting enemy troop and tank concentrations.

Once it was known that the Indian Army was knocking at the gates of Dhaka, the PAF in the West virtually gave up flying. During the last few days of the war, the IAF brass ordered attacks on PAF airfields with the sole purpose of drawing out their aircraft. But that rarely succeeded as the PAF aircraft for the most part remained secured inside their pens, refusing to come out and fight. The strongest indictment of the Pakistani Air Force was made not by an Indian but by the Pakistani leader, Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, who took over from General Yahya Yahya Khan after the 1971 defeat. On taking over, he made a speech in which he castigated the PAF chief Air Marshal Rahim Khan and several other officers by name.

A better analysis of effectiveness of the two air forces is provided by the losses per sortie figure. The IAF flew at least double the number of combat sorties per day than the PAF, thereby exposing itself to ground fire and enemy interdiction. Despite this, the IAF's attrition rate of 0.86 per 100 sorties during the 1971 War compares favourably with the Israeli rate of 1.1 in the Yom Kippur War. The PAF's overall attrition rate works out to 2.47 (including transporters and recce aircraft lost on the ground). If aircraft destroyed on the ground are not taken into account, the rate works out to 1.12, which is still very high given that PAF aircraft never really stood back to fight.

Idiotic premise based on a ill informed article. But then again, I could repeat on deaf ears what the PAF's goals were and you would still harp your blind tune.

 

[Windjammer]

Don't waste your time.

He used to irritate me. Then I found that his whole mission in life was self-publicity, and an attempt to fill up a lonely life by pretending to be at the centre of affairs. Even other Pakistanis laugh and try to change the subject when his antics come up for discussion.

Ignore him. Move on.

Listen you gas bag, save your tripe for some one else, i don't need any acknowledgement from any quarters and you certainly lack the comprehension to judge me or rant on how other Pakistani members see me.
you are just an acute case of blind leading blind....if you have some how been donated the title then make an effort to prove your worth.
@ topic, those who think that PAF lost it's will to fight need some serious introspection of their mindset and their resources. For it's a known fact that IAF enjoyed a 4 : 1 numerical superiority over PAF in 1971, by IAF's own admission, it flew some 5000 sorties during the war, for an air force four times smaller than it's adversary, the PAF accounted for over 3000 sorties during the same period, which alone speaks volumes of it's effort for the war.

 

[Donatello]

Who Won the Air War in 1971?

This issue was discussed in detail in this thread as well. People just keep bringing up these things as they just need to.

The reality is just too painful, try to scavenge whatever little happiness you can, even if it is based on tripe.

So the fact of losing the majority of your country in the 1971 war becomes a minor issue, the claim of "winning" the air war becomes the real thing.

This when the reality of the air war is like this:

By the end of the first week of the war, PAF fighters in the West appeared to have lost their will to fight. By this time, the IAF was repeatedly hitting secondary targets including railway yards, cantonments, bridges and other installations as well as providing close air support to the Army wherever it was required. The most dangerous were the close air support missions which involved flying low and exposing aircraft to intense ground fire. The IAF lost the most aircraft on these missions as is proved by the high losses suffered by IAF Sukhoi-7 and Hunter squadrons. But their pilots flew sortie after sortie keeping up with the Army and disrupting enemy troop and tank concentrations.

Once it was known that the Indian Army was knocking at the gates of Dhaka, the PAF in the West virtually gave up flying. During the last few days of the war, the IAF brass ordered attacks on PAF airfields with the sole purpose of drawing out their aircraft. But that rarely succeeded as the PAF aircraft for the most part remained secured inside their pens, refusing to come out and fight. The strongest indictment of the Pakistani Air Force was made not by an Indian but by the Pakistani leader, Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, who took over from General Yahya Yahya Khan after the 1971 defeat. On taking over, he made a speech in which he castigated the PAF chief Air Marshal Rahim Khan and several other officers by name.

A better analysis of effectiveness of the two air forces is provided by the losses per sortie figure. The IAF flew at least double the number of combat sorties per day than the PAF, thereby exposing itself to ground fire and enemy interdiction. Despite this, the IAF's attrition rate of 0.86 per 100 sorties during the 1971 War compares favourably with the Israeli rate of 1.1 in the Yom Kippur War. The PAF's overall attrition rate works out to 2.47 (including transporters and recce aircraft lost on the ground). If aircraft destroyed on the ground are not taken into account, the rate works out to 1.12, which is still very high given that PAF aircraft never really stood back to fight.

They talk about Bangladesh, which was a separate nation from the start, and had nothing to do with the west, politically or culturally. Yet, they haven't been able to nudge Kashmir from Pakistan, which i assume they think Pakistan snatched from India. Better yet, they bring in Israel's Yom Kippur War in a Indo-Pak scenario.

I don't know if they were born retarded, or internet turned them into one.

 

[SQ8]

Seems the loss of more than half the country and the surrender of 93,000 PA soldiers didn't contradict with whatever those goals were supposed to be.

Good for you...



Sahi ja rahe ho. Nothing to comment here...

Like I said, I wont comment on pointless gloating. You have no reason to be on this thread or this forum otherwise anyway.

 

[SQ8]

Seems that the basic point of what this thread is about and who is gloating is being entirely missed.

1971 was an all out win for India. We can see who is trying to claim victory in the "air war" as if it was unrelated to the overall outcome and had its own "undefined goals".



Familiar territory for people to fall back on when they have nothing else to say on the issue being discussed.

The discussion was on the air war. You derailed it by dragging in the whole picture. Then you have the nerve to say otherwise.
As I said, read about the air war here and your idiotic claims of "PAF no show" or leave this discussion
Aeronaut: PAF on the Offensive - 1971 War

 

[Vinod2070]

The discussion was on the air war. You derailed it by dragging in the whole picture. Then you have the nerve to say otherwise.
As I said, read about the air war here and your idiotic claims of "PAF no show" or leave this discussion
Aeronaut: PAF on the Offensive - 1971 War

My post was about the air war only!

Are you assuming stuff?

 

[SQ8]

My post was about the air war only!

Are you assuming stuff?

And your premise as I said, was ill informed to the hilt. Unless you have read the article and then have some comments on it. Please refrain from parroting your jingoistic bullshit.

 

[Vinod2070]

And your premise as I said, was ill informed to the hilt. Unless you have read the article and then have some comments on it. Please refrain from parroting your jingoistic bullshit.

Leave it. No point in continuing this...

I have said what I needed to. You are welcome to believe what you will.

 

[SQ8]

Leave it. No point in continuing this...

I have said what I needed to. You are welcome to believe what you will.

So are you. Bollywood thrives on jingoistic delusions.

 

[Windjammer]

Seems that the basic point of what this thread is about and who is gloating is being entirely missed.

1971 was an all out win for India. We can see who is trying to claim victory in the "air war" as if it was unrelated to the overall outcome and had its own "undefined goals".

Your intention to troll falls flat since Chuck Yeagar, being an aviator focuses solely on the aerial aspect of the war hence the thread, topic, subject, debate or whatever you want to call it.

Familiar territory for people to fall back on when they have nothing else to say on the issue being discussed.

Nothing close to how most Indian members run back to 1971 even when when the case may be of a fratricide.