General assault weapons LMG and G-3

[Cheeta]

MG1 A-3 :- The best light machine Gun that Pakistani army uses is the MG1 A-3. Its rate of automatic fire power is too speedy and accurate. Its grouping on a target is magnificant and if held properly showers a row of bulets in the short and quick instance sounding like a chirp of a bird. It can be used against aircrafts at a short range and in a fixed pod nature in defence posts. Its body parts are simple and very few to be fixed and opened. The thing it lacks is the being warmed up of the barrel which is to be changed after some known number of shots, that is also changed easily but during action the barrel being got too hot is made difficult to be changed by hands. If a gas chamber is attached as an exhaust like in all modern machine-guns will ultimately become a weapon second to none.
G-3 :- The bullet of Pakistani G-3 rifle is too big to be fired from a rifle on a shoulder. It makes a big bang and gives a big push to the shoulder of a soldier. After making some fifteen aimed shots on a targed one gets much exhausted beside the shoulder aching. Moreover such a fire can not be made in automatic state which becomes too difficult to be kept in aim to the target. Its loading system is not of easy going nature and if done slowly does not cocks the hammer which is to be released forthwith pulling it back. When its magazine touches some object while in action two of the bullets together get to the chamber and thus their nibs are both stuck in the barrel and it is jammed. Beside all that the rifle, its bullets and magazines are too heavy to be carried. Often in winter its loading and firing system is jammed because of the body parts technically very closed attached for a thorough move.Its machinery is complicated and the parts of the body are numerous getting many chances to damage. It is strongly needed that the rifle G-3 is needed to be replaced by some other weapon as Pakistan has the best steel and mechanism.

 

[Kharian_Beast]

Does anyone know if the gloves one wears to change the hot barrel of the MG3 is made out of asbestos? It has been in the past just wondering if nations that use this machine gun still use asbestos gloves.

 

[Ratus Ratus]

MG1 A-3 :- The best light machine Gun that Pakistani army uses is the MG1 A-3. Its rate of automatic fire power is too speedy and accurate. Its grouping on a target is magnificant and if held properly showers a row of bulets in the short and quick instance sounding like a chirp of a bird. It can be used against aircrafts at a short range and in a fixed pod nature in defence posts. Its body parts are simple and very few to be fixed and opened. The thing it lacks is the being warmed up of the barrel which is to be changed after some known number of shots, that is also changed easily but during action the barrel being got too hot is made difficult to be changed by hands. If a gas chamber is attached as an exhaust like in all modern machine-guns will ultimately become a weapon second to none.

Since the MG3 is based heavily on the MG42 it is going to have a similar high rate of fire; nothing brilliant here. Accuracy is an issue with any LMG. Too accurate and you fundamentally only have an automatic rifle. You say its grouping on a target is magnificent, ok at what range and type of fire, short bursts or sustained fire? Both will have different characteristics at target.
LMGs need a Beaten Zone to be useful. So what is the MG3’s beaten zone?
In a defence position a LMG/MMG can be used as direct fire or indirect fire. No beaten zone it is useless in indirect fire. Also it can become a bit of a waste in ammo in direct fire if on fixed lines.

As for heating of the barrel, show me a MG that at some point in sustained operations does not get a hot barrel that needs to be changed.
The gas chamber issue is not fool proof either. It can foul as much as anything else.

G-3 :- The bullet of Pakistani G-3 rifle is too big to be fired from a rifle on a shoulder. It makes a big bang and gives a big push to the shoulder of a soldier. After making some fifteen aimed shots on a targed one gets much exhausted beside the shoulder aching. Moreover such a fire can not be made in automatic state which becomes too difficult to be kept in aim to the target. Its loading system is not of easy going nature and if done slowly does not cocks the hammer which is to be released forthwith pulling it back. When its magazine touches some object while in action two of the bullets together get to the chamber and thus their nibs are both stuck in the barrel and it is jammed. Beside all that the rifle, its bullets and magazines are too heavy to be carried. Often in winter its loading and firing system is jammed because of the body parts technically very closed attached for a thorough move.Its machinery is complicated and the parts of the body are numerous getting many chances to damage. It is strongly needed that the rifle G-3 is needed to be replaced by some other weapon as Pakistan has the best steel and mechanism.

Sounds to me you may need to do more arm & shoulder exercises.
Be pleased you are not forced to use a 12 gauge shot gun fireing single shot, or heavy pellet loads then. Just remember your military predecessors used good old heavy .303 rifles and could fire and were expected to fire accurately up to 15 rounds per minute,(rapid fire), at ranges to 300 - 400 m. They did not have 20 round mags, nor preloaded mags either.
You are only talking of a 7.62 round and it is not much different to the .303 of then.
The mag problem is usually caused by poor fittings between the mag and mag receiver. Besides that the mag was not designed as a handle.
As to jamming, dust and winter use no grease/oil.

 

[Cheeta]

LMGs need a Beaten Zone to be useful. So what is the MG3’s beaten zone?
In a defence position a LMG/MMG can be used as direct fire or indirect fire. No beaten zone it is useless in indirect fire. Also it can become a bit of a waste in ammo in direct fire if on fixed lines.

As for heating of the barrel, show me a MG that at some point in sustained operations does not get a hot barrel that needs to be changed.
The gas chamber issue is not fool proof either. It can foul as much as anything else..

It is the skill and personal caring of the firer who makes the best use of every single bullet and gun upto the need. Showers without any proper need or to give cover should also be upto the extent of need. If one accounts every single bullet the gun is also kept up well. As far as the barrel is concerned though all guns get warmed up at a degree but that of LMG is quicker and needs an exhaust pump. In the instance of action one being engaged in confrontation can change the barrel difficultly.

Sounds to me you may need to do more arm & shoulder exercises.
Be pleased you are not forced to use a 12 gauge shot gun fireing single shot, or heavy pellet loads then. Just remember your military predecessors used good old heavy .303 rifles and could fire and were expected to fire accurately up to 15 rounds per minute,(rapid fire), at ranges to 300 - 400 m. They did not have 20 round mags, nor preloaded mags either.
You are only talking of a 7.62 round and it is not much different to the .303 of then.
The mag problem is usually caused by poor fittings between the mag and mag receiver. Besides that the mag was not designed as a handle.
As to jamming, dust and winter use no grease/oil.

The cartridge of G-3 is bigger than that of Lee Enfield .303 . There was a soldier among the injured who was unable to move in a battle. He had fired almost two hundred .303 bullets and then had got his shoulder and arm jammed. In .303 the push of the gun is totally applied on the shoulder while in an automatic guns the push of the cartridge blast is divided between the mechanism of reloading and ejecting empty cartridge and the shoulder. Even then the G-3 cartridge being bigger gives a good big jerk.

 

[Cheeta]

Does anyone know if the gloves one wears to change the hot barrel of the MG3 is made out of asbestos? It has been in the past just wondering if nations that use this machine gun still use asbestos gloves.

Certainly it is the copy of the past nature and needs only some modification in the mechanism. It has been excellent and has no other shortcoming.

 

[Ratus Ratus]

Cheeta:
Ok, seems you don’t understand the concept of Beaten Zones of a weapon.
All LMGs/MMGs/HMGs have what is called a Beaten Zone. It is a natural characteristic of the weapon. It has nothing what so ever to do with the soldier firing the gun.
A Beaten Zone is the natural spread of rounds on the ground and normally measured at a distance of 1000m. It is measured by fixing the weapon in a fixed line of fire at a target area and measuring the natural spread of rounds at 1000m. In most cases the spread is oval in shape with the long axis of the oval along the sight line. The centre of the oval is the sight target point.
If you don’t follow this I suggest you discuss it with your Platoon Sgt or Commander. They should know as it is an aspect of tactical planning.

As for heating up and difficult to change, well! Let us just say the German soldiers of WWII could change the barrel of the MG 42 fast so I would be concerned that you have problems.
Yes with this weapon it will heat up due to its high rate of fire but that is the weapon.

With the G-3 Ok the cartridge is the standard NATO 7.62mm which is bigger than the .303. BUT what I was tying to point out to you is that your military predecessors not only had to hold the rifle steady, with one hand, but also work the bolt and reload the magazine. This still requires a reasonable amount of arm and shoulder work to still fire accurately, especially at 15 rounds per minute.
You have a semi/automatic weapons so you get to use both hand all the time.

Now the NATO 7.62mm is not that big compared to the .303. The bang is a rather minor issue to complain about.
My only guess is that you want a toy gun about 5.56mm round. The idea of the 7.62 is to knock the target down and keep it down.

My only other comment is you need more training in weapon firing in light of your comments.

Kharian_Beast
Can not answer that one. But I suspect it is a modern thread with high temperature resistance. May be nixed with a natural fibre. Asbestos is definitely on the bad list.

 

[Cheeta]

These are the characteristics of Kalashinkov rifle Mr.Bratus and Kharian, it does not have a tender bullet as that of M-16 and its mechanism is fluent and smooth. Though Pakistan is also manufacturing this rifle but for the time that of the Syrian Kalashnikov is on the top as the steel of Syria is unique in nature, the gun has also been somewhat elongated. My knowledge is increased with your description of the beaten line.

Caliber 7.62x39 mm
Action: Gas operated, rotating bolt with 2 lugs
Overall length: 870 mm
Barrel length: 415 mm
Weight, with empty magazine: AK 4,3 kg; AKM 3,14 kg
Magazine capacity 30 rounds (40 rounds box magazines and 75 rounds drums from RPK also may be used)
Cyclic rate of fire 600 rounds per minute
Maximum effective range: about 400 meters

 

[Ratus Ratus]

You can not realistically compare a rifle vs. an AR, tow totally different concepts in weapon.
People will insist in making the comparison but the logic is flawed.

The AK family, and it does not matter who makes it is a straight AR. That means it has a nominal short range of accuracy and short barrel.
Rifles on the other hand tend to be more accurate on the longer range and have longer barrels.
The G3 is a rifle, longer range and accuracy.

Now the round you mentioned is that used in the AK family and is:
1. Not accurate even with an AK47/AKM and has a short range.
2. It is not a standard 7.62 NATO round so it is going to lighter in it recoil effects.
So I would not consider it suitable for the Pakistan operational environment.

If you want to chase a sensible weapon forget the 5.56 round and may be the 7.62 and look for a good 6mm/6.8mm round.
Also consider a weapon with options of a long barrel, (Rifle style), and a short one, (Assault Rifle style). In essence a weapon base that allows for barrel change but the body/receiver is the same.

At present most nations that use the 5.56 round have want amounts to ARs. These are short barrelled weapons and only useful as ARs not rifles.
They are also trying to use that weapon over long ranges, 300-400 plus m and it is operating at its limit. Afghanistan is a good example.
In Iraq the US found also that the 5.56 was not “knocking the guy down permanently”. This is a problem with the way the 5.56 round behaves or in these cases they way it was not behaving in flight and impact.

Last points:
Many countries are moving off the 7.62 round because the incoming recruits are not able to deal with the weapon weight and recoil. Recruits are under strength fundamentally, hence push for the lighter round. The push for a heavier charge with the 5.56 may take off but it is one I suspect will fail. The push for a 6/6.8 type round may have advantages and possible take off better.

MG usage etal:
I am not going to continue a long lecture on the way one uses MGs in general and the concepts of beaten zones in attack and defence as I don’t think this is the place/forum for basic tactical teachings.
If people want a discussion on this tactical issue Ok but elsewhere would be appropriate. PM me.

 

[Cheeta]

It is good to discuss Sir, many do not have this basic knowledge and many more do not even bother themselves understanding this basic technology.
I think there is needed at least some modification in the technical form of the rifle. Furthermore for the use of our soldiers the chest armour(zarra) and helmet(khod) of American or Nato style is not recommendable. These worn both even do not make the full defence of the soul. Muslims have in history been highly mobile and smooth in moving because of the light armoury they use. The armour of Knights can be compared to that of the soldiers of Salahuddin Ayyubi. Similarly a soldier needs an armour lighter than that of the one provided by the U.S. Moreover there is needed Pakistan made helmets which should have some lighter weight and eastern design. You might have seen the U.S soldies at hand to hand battle and in actions without making more free or desired movement. If one wears a battle dress with all these items and the gun may imagine the burden.

 

[Ratus Ratus]

Nothing new here, many forget the fundamentals that a machine gunner must know his weapon and its characteristics and how it has to be used.
A rifleman must know his rifle and how to use it effectively.
Also you must learn to be cold in thinking.

As for body armour, do not let nationalism get in the way of thinking. Do not confuse heavy armoured knights of the old crusades and Saladin’s light armoured troops with modern warfare.
Body armour is important to prevent you from getting killed in a meaningless way.
As for burden, you carry your weapon, your ammunition, your kit for the ops, your body armour and also any other little toys you and your section will need to do the job.
The burden is there what ever.

 

[Black Panther]

G3 Assult Rifle

Type :Automatic rifle
Place of origin :Germany

Service history
In service 1959–present



Designer Mauser, CETME, Heckler & Koch
Designed 1950s

Manufacturer Heckler & Koch, Rheinmetall, SEDENA, Defense Industries Organization, FBP, Hellenic Arms Industry, Kongsberg Våpenfabrikk, MAS, Military Industry Corporation, MKEK, Pakistan Ordnance Factories, Royal Ordnance
Produced 1964–present

Specifications
Weight 4.4 kg (9.7 lb) (G3A3)
4.7 kg (10 lb) (G3A4)
5.54 kg (12.2 lb) with optic (G3SG/1)
4.1 kg (9.0 lb) (G3K)
Length 1,025 mm (40.4 in) (G3A3)
1,025 mm (40.4 in) stock extended / 840 mm (33.1 in) stock collapsed (G3A4)
1,025 mm (40.4 in) (G3SG/1)
895 mm (35.2 in) stock extended / 711 mm (28.0 in) stock collapsed (G3K)
Barrel length 450 mm (17.7 in)
315 mm (12.4 in) (G3K)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cartridge 7.62x51mm NATO
Action Roller-delayed blowback
Rate of fire 500-600 rounds/min
Muzzle velocity 800 m/s (2,625 ft/s)
Effective range 100 to 400 m sight adjustments
Feed system 20-round detachable box magazine
Sights Rear: rotary diopter; front: hooded post

 

[Super Falcon]

G 3 ruled the world for 4 decades

 

[Super Falcon]

along with AK 47 G 3 is second best