Gen.Raheel and Gen.Rizwan have Achieved what Political Govt couldn't!

[Paksanity]

Pardon me, but it's this mentality that undermine a nation's democracy. Armed forces should work under a government. Not along with it. But hey it's Pakistan, a land of opportunities!

Law of competence says, incompetent works under competent!

 

[I.R.A]

do u really thing Pakistanis with a sane mind voted for them or were the votes casted on by some other sorcerous techniques involved.

the point is, i don't even care whether the votes were legit or not.
i care for Pakistan and i want to see a delivering Government.
If they cant deliver, they should be kicked off, is all.

Every single faithful Pakistani wants to see Pakistan grow in strength and prosper.

But the thing is we cannot always look towards Army for everything, we expect Army to do police work, we expect army to do our Government work, we expect Army to help us in almost all areas. If for the first time Army has changed its attitude and is not willing to send 111 every time to get rid of incompetent goons, then civilians should avail this opportunity and make this change a permanent one.

 

[ZeusMK]

Every single faithful Pakistani wants to see Pakistan grow in strength and prosper.

But the thing is we cannot always look towards Army for everything, we expect Army to do police work, we expect army to do our Government work, we expect Army to help us in almost all areas. If for the first time Army has changed its attitude and is not willing to send 111 every time to get rid of incompetent goons, then civilians should avail this opportunity and make this change a permanent one.

The mind control and divide and rule strategies of monopolistic cartel political parties won't allow the civics to have a free will.

 

[I.R.A]

The mind control and divide and rule strategies of monopolistic cartel political parties won't allow the civics to have a free will.

The thing with the cartels is they always need customers to sell their products to. What if the customers refuse to buy that product will that cartel still be making profit and survive?

We can start with little things, there are many others like you who feel the pain but don't see a way how to express. If these people are united somehow on some forum may be they can make a difference.

 

[Viper0011.]

Gen.Raheel and Gen.Rizwan have achieved that much what Political Cartoons couldn't, during last 10 years. This R&R (Raheel & Rizwan) combination has surely proved to be Extremely Lethal for the enemies of Pak SarZameen.

What "lethality" has been produced by the two that you had to open up a thread on? Care to elaborate? If you are going to talk about the operation in FATA and all.....well, that's the military's job. When they are called upon to protect the country, they are supposed to do that. That's what they are doing and took the oath for, they are just doing their job. I am not sure what's such a big deal about it......and the things a military does, the Civilian government can't do (obviously). That's why you have a military. Civilian leadership "orders" the military to take action and backs it up with political support. Military goes in and executes what it does....called "operations". Not sure why a thread was needed on silly glorifying these two individuals!

The mind control and divide and rule strategies of monopolistic cartel political parties won't allow the civics to have a free will.

You've been under the military rule for over 70% of your country's total life so far......so really, its the "military" which hasn't allowed the people of Pakistan to understand their free will. Every time a system was to be setup For The People, the military, by force and Marshall laws and coupes, turned it into "For The Military" vs. what it's supposed to be......For The People!

 

[I.R.A]

That's why you have a military. Civilian leadership "orders" the military to take action and backs it up with political support. Military goes in and executes what it does....called "operations". Not sure why a thread was needed on silly glorifying these two individuals!

Civilian leadership while seating its A$$ on nice comfortable seats passes the order, and a soldier with petty salary per month executes it with his life on stake.

I think the respect level should be different for both.

 

[Gandh brandi]

Yeah they should help government to hang their political opponents.Bangladesh a land of hanging members your ....

They had it coming. YES, I will admit the process wasn't flawless but those cretins had it coming.

 

[ZeusMK]

What "lethality" has been produced by the two that you had to open up a thread on? Care to elaborate? If you are going to talk about the operation in FATA and all.....well, that's the military's job. When they are called upon to protect the country, they are supposed to do that. That's what they are doing and took the oath for, they are just doing their job. I am not sure what's such a big deal about it......and the things a military does, the Civilian government can't do (obviously). That's why you have a military. Civilian leadership "orders" the military to take action and backs it up with political support. Military goes in and executes what it does....called "operations". Not sure why a thread was needed on silly glorifying these two individuals!

You've been under the military rule for over 70% of your country's total life so far......so really, its the "military" which hasn't allowed the people of Pakistan to understand their free will. Every time a system was to be setup For The People, the military, by force and Marshall laws and coupes, turned it into "For The Military" vs. what it's supposed to be......For The People!

Do Not judge Pakistan's internal Affairs based on your theoretical estimations.
Don't comment on something you know nothing of in Practical. You have no knowledge about the ground realities over here.

Every Sincere Pakistani Respect Pak Military.
It has always stepped in at the time of chaos to prevent loss and to maintain stability over here lately. It has bear tremendous sacrifices.

While the Politicians over here rule by creating a Divide based on ethnic and Regional Grounds, in the end for their personal benefits and Swiss accounts.

 

[I.R.A]

They had it coming. YES, I will admit the process wasn't flawless but those cretins had it coming.

After like 44 years when one of them was on wheelchairs.

 

[Viper0011.]

Do Not judge Pakistan's internal Affairs based on your theoretical estimations.
Don't comment on something you know nothing of in Practical. You have no knowledge about the ground realities over here.

Every Sincere Pakistani Respect Pak Military. It has always stepped in at the time of chaos to prevent loss and to maintain stability over here lately. It has bear tremendous sacrifices.

While the Politicians over here rule by creating a Divide based on ethnic and Regional Grounds, in the end for their personal benefits and Swiss accounts.

See the bold above, you can issue your little warnings to others, your generals still come to Washington to get direction. Let's get back to reality and address your bold parts above:
1) I know the ground realities more than you can imagine. You forgot, it was the US who'd been telling you to clean up this mess since 2002. But had you listened, you'd see our honest advise as we had calculated that this Taliban terrorism will become much bigger issue for Pakistan. So PLEASE, don't preach to the quier about the "ground realities". The term doesn't apply here.

2) I don't think there is any doubt in Pakistani military's professional services and the role it plays to protect its country. My remarks were that the two generals being glorified here, are just doing there jobs. We have generals who've commanded large scale wars and operations. They get respect from the country but no one thinks they are doing something special. They are soldiers and when the civilian government asks and the Commander in Chief orders (The President of the US), the military moves in to do their work and they do it well.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Do Not judge Pakistan's internal Affairs based on your theoretical estimations.
Don't comment on something you know nothing of in Practical. You have no knowledge about the ground realities over here.

Every Sincere Pakistani Respect Pak Military.
It has always stepped in at the time of chaos to prevent loss and to maintain stability over here lately. It has bear tremendous sacrifices.

While the Politicians over here rule by creating a Divide based on ethnic and Regional Grounds, in the end for their personal benefits and Swiss accounts.

Apart from Zia who did more harm than good in the long term.

 

[Viper0011.]

Civilian leadership while seating its A$$ on nice comfortable seats passes the order, and a soldier with petty salary per month executes it with his life on stake.
I think the respect level should be different for both.

I agree with your statement. Politicians are politicians. But when a politician become a Commander in Chief or a PM or some head of state that acts as an ordering authority to the military, the military obeys the orders. In a Civil society, the military is a sub-branch of the Civilian leadership. It isn't an organization by itself. So Civilian politicians do get to issue orders when they are in that power seat. And yes, ordinary soldiers execute those orders. Which is why, I think its important that X military people try to become politician to keep a balance.

 

[I.R.A]

I agree with your statement. Politicians are politicians. But when a politician become a Commander in Chief or a PM or some head of state that acts as an ordering authority to the military, the military obeys the orders. In a Civil society, the military is a sub-branch of the Civilian leadership. It isn't an organization by itself. So Civilian politicians do get to issue orders when they are in that power seat. And yes, ordinary soldiers execute those orders. Which is why, I think its important that X military people try to become politician to keep a balance.

If you are trying to analyze Pakistan's internal affairs with a mindset of what you see and witness in US, just forget it, the competency level, the vision, the loyalty of US politicians is way more than Pakistani counterparts.


If a Commander in Chief is like Mamnoon Hussain (Who has no clue what power and responsibility his position holds) or Zardari who was all in for reconciliatory politics that would favor his tenure and personal interests then the situation demands someone else to take charge. And in Pakistan it took Civilians more than two years to issue NW operation order had it been on time the situation would have been quite different.

 

[Viper0011.]

If you are trying to analyze Pakistan's internal affairs with a mindset of what you see and witness in US, just forget it, the competency level, the vision, the loyalty of US politicians is way more than Pakistani counterparts.

And in Pakistan it took Civilians more than two years to issue NW operation order had it been on time the situation would have been quite different.

See bold above:
1) US's law makers and politicians come from real educated backgrounds and an established system that keeps getting mature over time, and has been for decades. This is the MAIN point. The military in Pakistan has never allowed such a system to be created and mature over time. Ever time there is the "Democracy", its after many years of Military rule so you can't really do a whole lot when you have to grow the economy, create peace and provide human advancement, jobs and electricity. By closing your eyes when you face a problem it didn't go away, you just pretended it did. Similarly, these military rules have destroyed Pakistan, where no one could really set long term growth and stability goals. This is the first time long term planning is happening do I hope the system keep moving forward for a better Pakistan.

2) The Civlian government isn't sitting on their couches eating Fish and Chips. They are running around, trying to fix the electric issue, deal with terrorism, violence internally by IK, issues in Karachi, Fata, Baluchistan, no power, no jobs, etc, etc. Its silly to expect quick decisions on such critical topic. Peshawer incident provided that unity that was needed. The military is like a hammer. When all you have is a hemmer, everything looks like a nail to you. You can't just quick deploy military, there is a lot of political will and work to provide support to the military.

 

[ZeusMK]

See the bold above, you can issue your little warnings to others, your generals still come to Washington to get direction. Let's get back to reality and address your bold parts above:
1) I know the ground realities more than you can imagine. You forgot, it was the US who'd been telling you to clean up this mess since 2002. But had you listened, you'd see our honest advise as we had calculated that this Taliban terrorism will become much bigger issue for Pakistan. So PLEASE, don't preach to the quier about the "ground realities". The term doesn't apply here.

Pakistan is Sovereign.
We Welcome Consolidated Dialogues and Collaboration.
We Welcome Peace and Collective Measures to Maintain it.
Since it's inception Pakistan has been an Ally to US and this collaboration has been fortified for Decades. Our relationship has been based on Mutual Understanding, Respect and Friendship and we want it to continue it till eternity.
Be Mindful, it doesn't mean we take your directions. We welcome your suggestions to improve the measures to be taken for the betterment as Ally, as a friend.

You give us advise on how to control terrorism?
What were your forces able to accomplish at Afghanistan. Were you able to conquer the whole of Afghanistan?
You want to dignify ground realities. You were not able to control Afghanistan and terrorism in it even with the full Fledged Backing of your Super Military Power.

So what does this tell us all?
It teaches us that terrorism can not be contained by Force. As you can't change a mindset by force. Neither US nor Pak.

No person in a sane mind would want terrorism. But, In order to restore peace into the region i believe we have to establish Peace talks with the militant region of Afghan. Pakistan Shares a Gigantic Border with Afghanistan.
This problem can not be contained other wise. This war is otherwise endless.

Suggestions are always welcomed.