GDR Army

[cloud4000]

Good stuff. The East German army was arguably the best in the Warsaw Pact other than the Soviet Union.

 

[Desert Fox]

Well, I think Socialism (with some nationalism elements as it was in Eastern Germany, no LGBT, no multiculturalism and other liberal rubbish) is much closer to German spirit, than US-style capitalism. I've read some stories about Eastern German's army in Czechoslovakia during so called 1968 "Velvet Revolution" (in fact - attemp of armed coupe). Czechs did not fear Soviet Army - threw stones at our soldiers, called names. But when Germans arrived - Chechs immedietly became like sheeps.
DDR Army was second best in the Eastern block. It was Prussian-style tough army, created to be on the forefront in the possible attack on Europe. It had nothing to do with this Western German pussy-style army created to die first while Americans evacuating to USA if USSR attacks.

I have no doubt that the Prussian spirit of discipline carried on into the NVA. It runs in the German blood.

But when Germans arrived - Chechs immedietly became like sheeps.

Must have brought back memories of the Gestapo.

Well, I think Socialism (with some nationalism elements as it was in Eastern Germany, no LGBT, no multiculturalism and other liberal rubbish) is much closer to German spirit, than US-style capitalism.

It had nothing to do with this Western German pussy-style army created to die first while Americans evacuating to USA if USSR attacks.

True. Credit given where credit is due.

Soviet style system was comparatively less degenerate compared to today's American lead "western" "order", however it was purely contingent and temporary based on the need of the time for the Soviet lead Eastern bloc vis a vis its rivalry with American lead sphere of influence rather than based within the Marxist doctrine, which is internationalist and not nationalist (or the champion of any traditional identity to speak of).

For example, let's say in a parallel universe Soviet Union triumphed and America disintegrated and the whole world embraced Communism; I highly doubt that Nationalism of any kind would be tolerated as it is contrary to the Marxist doctrine which is international and universal in its worldview and does not recognize any traditional identity except class struggle (which isn't traditional), or as in it's current form in the west, identity politics of an oppressed group vs. an oppressor group on every level of society, (both macro as well as micro).

American Liberal Capitalism championed conservative and religious values during the cold war and even up until recently during the "war on terror" when Christian terms were used (GW Bush's "crusade" against Islamic "terrorism" which ironically was created by Americans and allies), but when the Communist "enemy" collapsed and now Muslims are more useful idiots for domestic policies against genuine right winger dissidents in the West rather than "Islamist terrorists" of the early 2000's, the Liberal elites are now pushing full Globo-Homo agenda and destroying the same traditional identities they once championed for against the Soviets (& other enemies).

Take the church for example; during the cold war the American narrative was that the Soviet Union was the Godless enemy that persecuted religion of all kind; post cold war Christian's in America are being forced to bake wedding cakes for homosexuals, and Jesus & Marry (PBU Them) are openly slandered against and made fun of, the Christian cross is dunked in a jar of urine and it's called "Art", Christmas symbols are forbidden in schools & other public places (unless they're being mocked in the name of free speech), traditional priests are replaced by lesbians, etc...

It's not the case that America of the cold war was ruled by pious Christian monks who were coincidentally overthrown by satanic atheists just in time for the Soviet collapse or the demise of the "Islamist" bogeyman. It's the same Bush family, Clinton's, Obama's, McCains, and the same handlers of the cold war era. They just don't have any use for Christianity and now Muslims in the West are their favorite lap-dogs along with other minority groups which they use as a battering-ram against genuine right wingers (for now, until once again the Islamist bogeyman will be resurrected when the need arises).

Similarly in Communist countries any form of traditional identity was/is only permitted for its temporary utility and not because Marxist doctrine advocates it. Both Marxism and Liberal capitalism and their various offshoots are internationalists and revolutionaries (as they deconstruct all traditional identity once they no longer have any use for it).

Because the goal is to break all of the chains that bind the individual to any organic identity (family, race, nation, religion, gender, hierarchy) and create a "new man" of "progress" who will bring about a "natural" state of existence for mankind in a worldly utopia. Though no one, not a single Liberal or Marxist can explain what exactly these words mean, what this paradise will be like, how they will make it work, but all we should know is that we will know once we get there. We just need to "liberate" men from the age old traditions that bind them to any organic sense of belonging, and this must be achieved by all means necessary.

@Nilgiri @Psychic @OsmanAli98 @Taimur Khurram @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

 

[vostok]

I have no doubt that the Prussian spirit of discipline carried on into the NVA. It runs in the German blood.


Must have brought back memories of the Gestapo.



True. Credit given where credit is due.

Soviet style system was comparatively less degenerate compared to today's American lead "western" "order", however it was purely contingent and temporary based on the need of the time for the Soviet lead Eastern bloc vis a vis its rivalry with American lead sphere of influence rather than based within the Marxist doctrine, which is internationalist and not nationalist (or the champion of any traditional identity to speak of).

For example, let's say in a parallel universe Soviet Union triumphed and America disintegrated and the whole world embraced Communism; I highly doubt that Nationalism of any kind would be tolerated as it is contrary to the Marxist doctrine which is international and universal in its worldview and does not recognize any traditional identity except class struggle (which isn't traditional), or as in it's current form in the west, identity politics of an oppressed group vs. an oppressor group on every level of society, (both macro as well as micro).

American Liberal Capitalism championed conservative and religious values during the cold war and even up until recently during the "war on terror" when Christian terms were used (GW Bush's "crusade" against Islamic "terrorism" which ironically was created by Americans and allies), but when the Communist "enemy" collapsed and now Muslims are more useful idiots for domestic policies against genuine right winger dissidents in the West rather than "Islamist terrorists" of the early 2000's, the Liberal elites are now pushing full Globo-Homo agenda and destroying the same traditional identities they once championed for against the Soviets (& other enemies).

Take the church for example; during the cold war the American narrative was that the Soviet Union was the Godless enemy that persecuted religion of all kind; post cold war Christian's in America are being forced to bake wedding cakes for homosexuals, and Jesus & Marry (PBU Them) are openly slandered against and made fun of, the Christian cross is dunked in a jar of urine and it's called "Art", Christmas symbols are forbidden in schools & other public places (unless they're being mocked in the name of free speech), traditional priests are replaced by lesbians, etc...

It's not the case that America of the cold war was ruled by pious Christian monks who were coincidentally overthrown by satanic atheists just in time for the Soviet collapse or the demise of the "Islamist" bogeyman. It's the same Bush family, Clinton's, Obama's, McCains, and the same handlers of the cold war era. They just don't have any use for Christianity and now Muslims in the West are their favorite lap-dogs along with other minority groups which they use as a battering-ram against genuine right wingers (for now, until once again the Islamist bogeyman will be resurrected when the need arises).

Similarly in Communist countries any form of traditional identity was/is only permitted for its temporary utility and not because Marxist doctrine advocates it. Both Marxism and Liberal capitalism and their various offshoots are internationalists and revolutionaries (as they deconstruct all traditional identity once they no longer have any use for it).

Because the goal is to break all of the chains that bind the individual to any organic identity (family, race, nation, religion, gender, hierarchy) and create a "new man" of "progress" who will bring about a "natural" state of existence for mankind in a worldly utopia. Though no one, not a single Liberal or Marxist can explain what exactly these words mean, what this paradise will be like, how they will make it work, but all we should know is that we will know once we get there. We just need to "liberate" men from the age old traditions that bind them to any organic sense of belonging, and this must be achieved by all means necessary.

@Nilgiri @Psychic @OsmanAli98 @Taimur Khurram @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Well, in real world socialism and nationalism coexisted in USSR quite well. There were no nazism but nationalism had its place. For example - you can see 15 languages on Soviet money, not just Russian. On every Soviet parade there were columns of nationalities in ethnic clothes. USSR spent enormouse money on developing every people's culture and language (film studios, national radio and television, newspapers and magazines, research institutes and so on). It was "Friendship of nations", not "No nations except Soviet people". In every republic there were quotas for locals even if locals were primitive.

 

[Jäger]

East German T-72M crews on maneuvers

Good stuff. The East German army was arguably the best in the Warsaw Pact other than the Soviet Union.

the DDR was one of the better allied states to the USSR and had some of the most advanced hardware amongst Warsaw Pact countries. actually at one time the DDR planned many high end weapons including
-Su-27
-Su-25 CAS
-Buk SAM
-S-300
and many more items. also the DDR had the best economy in the Warsaw Pact.

 

[Desert Fox]

Well, in real world socialism and nationalism coexisted in USSR quite well. There were no nazism but nationalism had its place. For example - you can see 15 languages on Soviet money, not just Russian. On every Soviet parade there were columns of nationalities in ethnic clothes. USSR spent enormouse money on developing every people's culture and language (film studios, national radio and television, newspapers and magazines, research institutes and so on). It was "Friendship of nations", not "No nations except Soviet people". In every republic there were quotas for locals even if locals were primitive.

Yes, Soviet Union as it existed in history ended up taking some practical and real world domestic policies in order to maintain semblance of internal stability since major percentage of the Soviet population was non-Russian and these circumstances are unavoidable. Like for example prohibition on Nationalism and religion being lifted during the German invasion in order to bolster the morale of the soldiers in the Red Army because circumstances forced the necessity of these.

However I have reasons to believe these domestic policies were purely contingent as they contradicted Marxist doctrine. Or another possibility can be that the Soviet Union was slowly on its way to shedding Marxism and before it could do so completely it collapsed. Besides these two possibilities nothing else can explain this contradiction between the foundational doctrine & worldview of the Soviet Union (Marxism) and its policies which contradicted the latter.

Do you think that if the USSR, and not USA, won the cold war and the whole world embraced Soviet Communism instead of American Liberalism, that this trend would have continued?

Because if America had disintegrated in 1991 people will remember it as the conservative country rather than the globo-homo promoting vanguard it has become today.

 

[vostok]

Yes, Soviet Union as it existed in history ended up taking some practical and real world domestic policies in order to maintain semblance of internal stability since major percentage of the Soviet population was non-Russian and these circumstances are unavoidable. Like for example prohibition on Nationalism and religion being lifted during the German invasion in order to bolster the morale of the soldiers in the Red Army because circumstances forced the necessity of these.

However I have reasons to believe these domestic policies were purely contingent as they contradicted Marxist doctrine. Or another possibility can be that the Soviet Union was slowly on its way to shedding Marxism and before it could do so completely it collapsed. Besides these two possibilities nothing else can explain this contradiction between the foundational doctrine & worldview of the Soviet Union (Marxism) and its policies which contradicted the latter.

Do you think that if the USSR, and not USA, won the cold war and the whole world embraced Soviet Communism instead of American Liberalism, that this trend would have continued?

Because if America had disintegrated in 1991 people will remember it as the conservative country rather than the globo-homo promoting vanguard it has become today.

Most of your ideas about the USSR are based on the first years after the Revolution. Only in that era (before Stalin came to power) there were some attempts to destroy the family, religion, nationality, private property, and so on. Later in the USSR, national culture took a great place in domestic policy. Religion also existed more or less freely - for example, Christmas was an official holiday. The family was proclaimed the main society cell - male and female roles were separated, although gender equality exists. Families with many children were encouraged - they received various benefits, free household appliances, apartments, etc.
The USSR was a very conservative society by today's standards. I do not think that something would have changed if the USSR had won the Cold War.

 

[Desert Fox]

Most of your ideas about the USSR are based on the first years after the Revolution. Only in that era (before Stalin came to power) there were some attempts to destroy the family, religion, nationality, private property, and so on. Later in the USSR, national culture took a great place in domestic policy. Religion also existed more or less freely - for example, Christmas was an official holiday. The family was proclaimed the main society cell - male and female roles were separated, although gender equality exists. Families with many children were encouraged - they received various benefits, free household appliances, apartments, etc.
The USSR was a very conservative society by today's standards. I do not think that something would have changed if the USSR had won the Cold War.

America of the cold war too was very conservative by today's standards. This is why Trump & his "conservative" supporters are simply Cold War liberals of the 1950's (except for the war mongering), the time period they idolize.

Liberalism maintained a conservative posture as long as it had an ideological enemy, after which it discarded its "conservativism".

Similarly had the Soviet Union won it would have necessarily abandoned all notions of conservatism in order to embrace a more egalitarian and universalist approach as the sole leader of the new Communist world order otherwise it would be backtracking on its whole rivalry with America (to compete to be the world police-man).

The underlying egalitarian ideologies; Liberalism/Capitalism & Marxism/Communism are both degenerate because pure equality is what they seek (in theory).

 

[Nasr]

Video without words. Army of Eastern Germany.

Germany, the country that the Zionists ravaged with impunity. Germans, a people who had not a hope in hell, to combat the Zionists.

A lesson for all Muslims, when you abandon Allah, you will be savagely ravaged by your enemies. That is one lesson which one country, out of all the Muslim countries in existence today, must wake-up and take notice of. That one country is, Pakistan!

You will not find victory, without the Sunnah of Nabi Muhammad Alaihi Salaat-u-Wassalam. And you will most certainly not find the strength to fight your enemies, without uncompromising faith in the One God, The Only, The Absolute Power, ALLAH SUBHANAHU WATA'AALAH

So you can chime about German GRD, modern Germany. The reality is that Germany is nothing more than a hollow carcass and the German people are powerless, regardless of their economic strength. When you have 30,000 American troops with 36 American Military Bases in your country.

 

[vostok]

America of the cold war too was very conservative by today's standards. This is why Trump & his "conservative" supporters are simply Cold War liberals of the 1950's (except for the war mongering), the time period they idolize.

Liberalism maintained a conservative posture as long as it had an ideological enemy, after which it discarded its "conservativism".

Similarly had the Soviet Union won it would have necessarily abandoned all notions of conservatism in order to embrace a more egalitarian and universalist approach as the sole leader of the new Communist world order otherwise it would be backtracking on its whole rivalry with America (to compete to be the world police-man).

The underlying egalitarian ideologies; Liberalism/Capitalism & Marxism/Communism are both degenerate because pure equality is what they seek (in theory).

In USSR porno was prohibited, rock-n-roll was prohibited, usury not saying about sodomia - and many other things that were normal in USA. So USSR was much more conservative. Nobody said "we are conservative" it was just in our common moral. Nobody could change this if won the Cold War. People were educated from childhood - to meet the high standards of communist morality. I am afraid the world would be too much Puritan. I do not know from where you bring all those ideas about possibility of this liberal rubbish in USSR. The day USSR started liberalisation - it was doomed. So it happend in reality. One thing make me feel better - the same liberalization that the West imposed on the USSR through the traitor Gorbachev will kill the USA itself.

 

[nahtanbob]

was East German army a functional force ?
Won't there be constant interference about political reliability of the generals, officers and soldiers in a communist system ?

 

[vostok]

was East German army a functional force ?
Won't there be constant interference about political reliability of the generals, officers and soldiers in a communist system ?

It was absolutely functional, equiped with best weapons, highly motivated and loyal to Socialist Faterland.

 

[nahtanbob]

It was absolutely functional, equiped with best weapons, highly motivated and loyal to Socialist Faterland.

best performance from communist armies were nationalistic - Soviet Army (WW 2), North Vietnamese (Vietnam war)

why would East German army perform well killing Germans from West Germany ?

 

[vostok]

best performance from communist armies were nationalistic - Soviet Army (WW 2), North Vietnamese (Vietnam war)

why would East German army perform well killing Germans from West Germany ?

Well, North Vietnamese and North Koreans were good in the war against their brothers (it is Civil War actually - Red Russians vs White Russians, Northern USA vs Southern USA and so on). I do not see any reasons why Eastern Germans would not kill Western brothers. Besides, I am quite sure in the case of attack Western Germany would surrender without losses. It is Prussian army vs Pussyan army.

 

[Desert Fox]

In USSR porno was prohibited, rock-n-roll was prohibited, usury not saying about sodomia - and many other things that were normal in USA. So USSR was much more conservative. Nobody said "we are conservative" it was just in our common moral. Nobody could change this if won the Cold War. People were educated from childhood - to meet the high standards of communist morality. I am afraid the world would be too much Puritan. I do not know from where you bring all those ideas about possibility of this liberal rubbish in USSR. The day USSR started liberalisation - it was doomed. So it happend in reality. One thing make me feel better - the same liberalization that the West imposed on the USSR through the traitor Gorbachev will kill the USA itself.

During the cold war America was the vehicle for Liberal Capitalism and Soviet Union was the vehicle for Marxist Communism.

Both Liberalism and Marxism seek to achieve universal equality (Democracy, on paper). Yes or No?

Both Liberalism and Marxism seek to achieve high standard of material condition in the name of progress. Yes or No?

Both Liberalism and Marxism are internationalist (globalism). Yes or No?

And of course there are other similarities, but these are fundamental ones I have mentioned.

Which ideology has done a far better job of attaining these goals? Liberalism.

Communism could not beat Liberalism not because Communism has opposite goals to Liberalism and thus was it's true antithesis.

No, Communism was rather terribly ineffective at achieving the goals which it shared with liberalism.

The goals were the same; a stateless classless society.

This is why it is very easy for a Communist to adjust to the Liberal order because mentally a communist is already calibrated to fit into this society.

 

[vostok]

During the cold war America was the vehicle for Liberal Capitalism and Soviet Union was the vehicle for Marxist Communism.

Both Liberalism and Marxism seek to achieve universal equality (Democracy, on paper). Yes or No?

Both Liberalism and Marxism seek to achieve high standard of material condition in the name of progress. Yes or No?

Both Liberalism and Marxism are internationalist (globalism). Yes or No?

And of course there are other similarities, but these are fundamental ones I have mentioned.

Which ideology has done a far better job of attaining these goals? Liberalism.

Communism could not beat Liberalism not because Communism has opposite goals to Liberalism and thus was it's true antithesis.

No, Communism was rather terribly ineffective at achieving the goals which it shared with liberalism.

The goals were the same; a stateless classless society.

This is why it is very easy for a Communist to adjust to the Liberal order because mentally a communist is already calibrated to fit into this society.

We never opposed Marxism and Liberalism. The confrontation was between Communism (socialism, as its intermediate stage between Capitalism and Communism) and Capitalism. Liberalism, in our understanding, is the opposition to Conservatism, not related to the two of this economic and political systems.
Internationalism in Soviet meaning - is true friendship of nations (peoples), not merger of all nations into some no-nation or over-nation global society. May be during first few years after Revolution, while most of high ranking Communists were Jews, there were some wrong tendencies. But after that there was even over-nationalism in republics - "Korenizatsiya" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korenizatsiya (you can call it National-Bolshevism).
Later they found some compromise between nationalisaton and federation.