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Gaza rockets penetrate Israeli defense system due to Iron Dome malfunction

1) There is no peace agreement, just some kind of cease fire.
2) There is small fire from Gaza all the time.
3) Israel killed one terrorist.
4) Terrorists responded by massive rocket fire at civilians.

Few hours ago they fired two additional rockets at Beer Sheva despite cease fire which was declared yesterday. They were intecpeted.


* Tor is designed to protect point targets like column of tanks. Iron Dome is designed to protect towns.
* Tor can fire only 2 missiles simultaneously, for Iron Dome is virtually unlimited.
* Tor has simple radar, Iron Dome has very powerful artillery radar which can calculate rocket launch and impact area.

Israel did attack first..... So what do you expect... You attack and then say 'Hey you cant fire back otherwise we'll retaliate.'.... But the fact is those rockets were retaliation. And Israel broke peace. And any civilian die in this exchange of fire Palestinian or Israeli the blood is on Israel's hand.
 
Israel did attack first.....
No Israel did not attack first:

2) There is small fire from Gaza all the time.

So what do you expect... You attack and then say 'Hey you cant fire back otherwise we'll retaliate.'....
Even if Israel was attacking first, retaliation against civilians is unacceptable.

Since declaration of reent cease fire Palestinians launched one rocket at town of Netivot which is not protected by Iron Dome (it hit car parking), two rockets at Beer Sheva and one rocket at Ashdod (all three were intercepted). Its fine for u, but if Israel kills some terroist it will be another breaking of cease fire.
 
No Israel did not attack first:

2) There is small fire from Gaza all the time.


Even if Israel was attacking first, retaliation against civilians is unacceptable.

Since declaration of reent cease fire Palestinians launched one rocket at town of Netivot which is not protected by Iron Dome (it hit car parking), two rockets at Beer Sheva and one rocket at Ashdod (all three were intercepted). Its fine for u, but if Israel kills some terroist it will be another breaking of cease fire.



Israel is real terrorist, and you must know that Israel is the only country which want to destroy the whole world and also it kills scientists!!
 
First of all, you repeat that Tor missile is several times cheaper without any numbers and sources. Tor missile is much heavier than Iron Dome's and has TVC. Thats expensive. During the mass production electronics have a tendency of very high price drop, but mechanical things remain expensive. Today smartphone with megapixel camera, quality touchscreen, powerful processor, MP3 player, radio... costs 10 times cheaper than clumsy cell phone 20 years ago. On the other hand cars remain as expensive as before.
Do not know on what level your example does relate to this, but missiles with seeker are always inherently costlier, and this fact is reflected in Iron Dome where the smallest cost figures are about 50000$ per missile... Nobody else takes that expense to deal against cheap and unsophisticated muntions.

Second of all, Iron Dome battery is one command center one radar and 3 launchers. For Tor you have 4 manned machines, command center, radar - thats much more manpower and much more expensive to operate 24/7. I actually doubt that Tor can operate in this mode at all.
It is not, because important aspect of Tor is that it performs several functions, protection against any kind of target, works in several niches at once, so Tor battery has much more military value. Also, advantage is that battery is modular, can incorporate several elements depending on need, and each unit can work independently.

Iron Dome has no more value than interception of simple and cheap rocket artillery, and efficience is not good when extreme cost difference between interceptor questions it's viability.

Third of all, Iron Dome battery is 100 million dollars cheaper. So even IF missile is 3 times cheaper, EACH BATTERY needs to fire THOUSANDS of them before it compensates the battery cost. And that does not include the higher manpower cost of Tor battery.
Important aspect of comparison here is not that much the system itself (because Tor is versatile and has much more value) but once deployed and performing the mission. And Iron Dome with ridicously expensive interceptor is not efficient in comparison.

Nothing of it is battle proven. Why Russia is not offering Tor to South Korea as area protection system? I dont think it can do that job at all.
Tor is decades of experience and contionous sophistication and much more mature and capable than Iron Dome.

Didn't knew that anyone operates Iron Dome, except Israel where cost is not reflected because it is payed by US financial assistance. While Tor has been exported worldwide in different configurations.

9M100 is short range system. Its going to replace Kinjal - the naval version of Tor. :)
Nobody will replace Tor (or for the matter, similar systems) with semi-active homing missiles. You do not understand their implementation. It is how do you implement the guidance method, depends on the system.

In case of Tor there is simply no need to do so, as it has a great multi-channel capability, in fact it would be a step backwards because it only would increase missile cost, and exclude secondary guidance, as optical tracking. Tor is already unmatched in it's role.

In ships in particular they will standarise armament with universal VLS cells, in order to be compatible they must have same guidance method, so I do not know how this is related to Tor or whatever.

Yup, everyone else is stupid. :lol:
And who is everyone else ? Show examples, of comparable systems, I already will say, that there are none.
 
No Israel did not attack first:

2) There is small fire from Gaza all the time.


Even if Israel was attacking first, retaliation against civilians is unacceptable.

Since declaration of reent cease fire Palestinians launched one rocket at town of Netivot which is not protected by Iron Dome (it hit car parking), two rockets at Beer Sheva and one rocket at Ashdod (all three were intercepted). Its fine for u, but if Israel kills some terroist it will be another breaking of cease fire.

You guys should realize that this "ceasefire" is nothing but buying time to regroup and attack by these lot. Reject any ceasefires in the future and continue your assault. You will have only two outcomes; either you'd succeed in bringing peace in the region by making the enemy accept his mistake. Or end up wiping him out which is even better option.

I stopped believing in ceasefire since the day it was signed between us and a certain country; never really helped us much.
 
Do not know on what level your example does relate to this, but missiles with seeker are always inherently costlier, and this fact is reflected in Iron Dome where the smallest cost figures are about 50000$ per missile... Nobody else takes that expense to deal against cheap and unsophisticated muntions.
Nowhere else towns are shelled by Grad rockets. There is no cheap way to intercept a rocket.

I found prices:

Each Tor missile costs 8-9 mln Rubles:

ÂÈÔ2 NE: Âåòêà : Re: "È íå...

Thats 270-300 K $. Case closed.
 
You guys should realize that this "ceasefire" is nothing but buying time to regroup and attack by these lot. Reject any ceasefires in the future and continue your assault. You will have only two outcomes; either you'd succeed in bringing peace in the region by making the enemy accept his mistake. Or end up wiping him out which is even better option.

I stopped believing in ceasefire since the day it was signed between us and a certain country; never really helped us much.
Well problem that the only way to completelly prevent rocket fire is reoccupy Gaza. No one really wants it.

Israel is very small country, so this Grad launcher becames a strategic weapon that targets half country:

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Iron Dome drastically reduces casualties, but population is still terrorised. Currently i think that cease fire is lesser evil. Even though cease fire means that they fire only small rockets.
 
Well problem that the only way to completelly prevent rocket fire is reoccupy Gaza. No one really wants it.

Israel is very small country, so this Grad launcher becames a strategic weapon that targets half country:

0_70094_329a0aa_L


Iron Dome drastically reduces casualties, but population is still terrorised. Currently i think that cease fire is lesser evil. Even though cease fire means that they fire only small rockets.

You made a big mistake when you returned Sinai during CW era. It would have given you further depth that you need. Since the rockets are fired blindly without regard to your civilian lives, I think the appropriate response should be multi-barrel rockets launched back and in numbers.

Sending F-16s all the time would be really boosting operational costs too much. A cheaper way is to use Iron Dome for defense while using a rain of unguided rockets back into gaza and whatever those guys call the other piece of land. BTW what is the Hebrew names for this gaza and the other land piece?
 
You made a big mistake when you returned Sinai during CW era. It would have given you further depth that you need. Since the rockets are fired blindly without regard to your civilian lives, I think the appropriate response should be multi-barrel rockets launched back and in numbers.

Sending F-16s all the time would be really boosting operational costs too much. A cheaper way is to use Iron Dome for defense while using a rain of unguided rockets back into gaza and whatever those guys call the other piece of land.
I guess u understand thats its not realistic. Gaza is dense populated area so one unguided rocket can kill dosens of innocents there. They dont have shelters or Iron Dome.

BTW what is the Hebrew names for this gaza and the other land piece?
Gaza in Hebrew is "A'za" meaning "Stronghold".

There can be effective way to deal with (having in account cost difference, and system capability).
The most effective way is called counterbattery fire. But we cant use it in Gaza for humanitarian and political reasons.

And this is your source, and comparison ?
This is one of the most authoritative Russian military forums. If u find a better source plz let me know.
 
Bravo you zionists. a 40000$ iron dome missile against 40$ homemade palestinian firecracker LMAO
I think its time for hezbollah to come in the game again ;)
 
You made a big mistake when you returned Sinai during CW era. It would have given you further depth that you need. Since the rockets are fired blindly without regard to your civilian lives, I think the appropriate response should be multi-barrel rockets launched back and in numbers.
as if they could choose to return sainai or not you are a funny man i use the word funny becouse i dont want to use a more mean word please try to speak in what you understand
 
The most effective way is called counterbattery fire. But we cant use it in Gaza for humanitarian and political reasons.
Well then we are talking about two different uses here. As Iron Dome is deployed to intercept casual rocket launches (being themselves, launches against city, of no military use, but terror impact), but it cannot perform other role than that so, like I think I said earlier, this system is good for Israel, but of no use for the rest of the world, being of not much military value. While Tor is actually a more capable system which is way more usefull for actual military need, and can perform multitude of roles.

This is one of the most authoritative Russian military forums. If u find a better source plz let me know.
I know that forum, but figures are stated by many and there is no way to know in detail, let alone to use for comparison. And the figure itself may vary due to many factors, depending on export contracts, or not, or production scale (newer missile will cost more), etc. But I'll try to look.
 
as if they could choose to return sainai or not you are a funny man i use the word funny becouse i dont want to use a more mean word please try to speak in what you understand

Do not ever expect infidels to be friends of Muslims. I never expect infidels to be truthful, and that is what we can see in that post you have quoted. The problem is that most Muslims are either too tolerant or too ignorant to treat infidels in the only way they understand and respect.

Egyptian military victory in 1973 is undisputable based on facts but based on propaganda (just like American propaganda of nowadays, for example), they make billions of uneducated people think that "Israel" won!
 

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