Gallipoli War: Great Victory Of Islam ( ) ÇANAKKALE zaferi

[silko]

No it is not.....it is also a state sponsored pass time in Turkey.

still butthurt that you didn't got your promised land?

 

[SyrianChristianPatriot]

Yes brave battle by the turks salute to them however they still lost in the end and lost the ottoman empire.

 

[silko]

Yes brave battle by the turks salute to them however they still lost in the end and lost the ottoman empire.

we didn't lose at Gallipoli if that is what you believe... we lost the war in general because of ze Germans and Bulgars

 

[SyrianChristianPatriot]

we didn't lose at Gallipoli if that is what you believe... we lost the war in general because of ze Germans and Bulgars

Nope read my post carefully you won the battle but lost the war.

 

[Cerian]

we didn't lose at Gallipoli if that is what you believe... we lost the war in general because of ze Germans and Bulgars

That's hardly true. We lost most of the campaigns except eastern front. Then we surrendered, Germans followed us.

 

[silko]

That's hardly true. We lost most of the campaigns except eastern front. Then we surrendered, Germans followed us.

whut? thats not what i've heard.

we won at Canakkale and later beat them in the independence war!

 

[Majnun]

Few examples:
he banned the fez, the traditional hat of the Turkish men, and required that they wear the European style hat. the Latin alphabet replaced the Arabic ones. the European calendars and metric system replaced the Islamic ones. woman were encourage to vote, work,and hold office. new laws made it illegal for woman to wear veils. All Mosques were under state control and whatever they teach had to be approved by the State. He came down hard on anybody complaining about this.
There is more, a lot more he did.....just read up on it.

And which of these acts according to you hurt Islam or the Turks?

So you claim that hats, letters, measurement systems , giving or not giving women equal rights are all about Islam.

So for you a Muslim;
- must wear a fez ,
- must be preferably illiterate (Literacy rate was less than %5 before Republic now more than %99 thanks to easy learning latin alphabet ),
- must use ancient measurement systems and always must have difficulties with world trade, preferably don't make world trade instead non-muslim minorities like greeks and armenians do worldwide trade for him,
- must not give women equal rights, lock them in their houses and never use them in industry and business world as manpower and always use %50 capacity of the population,
- must never spread true Islam belief, must always have 1000's of different sects and groups fighting with each other and never live in a peace, (unity is not something for only christian churchs)

Ataturk tried to find solutions for these kind of problems that led Turks get weakend during history,

I don't believe your sincerity for your comments and criticizes about Ataturk and Islam besides I don't think that you are number one Islam and Turk expert as an Armenian guy

He is an Armenian, he will always find a problem with Ataturk or any great Turkish leader.

 

[Azatavrear]

still butthurt that you didn't got your promised land?

You must refer to Western Armenia and the treaty of Sevres......that was the West that betrayed us, then they took over Turkey and gave you Ataturk, who removed Islam's power from Turkey and forced all Turks to be westernized, totally remove any future threat from Turks and made them their secular puppet. Since then Turkey is being used against Muslims in ME and to do Western leaders bitting. Look at Syria now....Turkey is getting ready to screw them up badly right after your President visits England. The Arab revolt against the Turks was instigated by Great Britain. And Britain, although a far weaker power today, is still playing a seminal role - except, it is encouraging the Turks to return to the Arab world. One hundred years ago, Britain successfully pitted the Arabs against the Turks. Today, Turks join hands with some Arabs who have a grouse against some other Arabs.

Majnun:
Since I am an Armenian (all Armenians are Christians) I cannot truly comment on what is Islamic and what is not on an Pakistani forum, in my opinion Turkey is an trator of Islam but that is just me, and my opinion as a Armenian can be biased so I agree......let the true Muslims of this forum decide for themselves.

 

[Majnun]

You must refer to Western Armenia and the treaty of Sevres......that was the West that betrayed us, then they took over Turkey and gave you Ataturk, who removed Islam's power from Turkey and forced all Turks to be westernized, totally remove any future threat from Turks and made them their secular puppet. Since then Turkey is being used against Muslims in ME and to do Western leaders bitting. Look at Syria now....Turkey is getting ready to screw them up badly right after your President visits England. The Arab revolt against the Turks was instigated by Great Britain. And Britain, although a far weaker power today, is still playing a seminal role - except, it is encouraging the Turks to return to the Arab world. One hundred years ago, Britain successfully pitted the Arabs against the Turks. Today, Turks join hands with some Arabs who have a grouse against some other Arabs.

Syria is a greater threat to Muslims than Turkey. Turkey's actions against Syria are completely justified, in fact, I believe they are a little too restrained. You are completely wrong in what you say, Turkey has modernized itself and made itself more able and stronger, thanks to Ataturk's reforms. Syria (and Iran) have continued been drowned in dogma, and are far weaker than they should be, thanks to turning their backs on modernizing. If Pakistan wants to progress today, we have to follow Turkey.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

You must refer to Western Armenia and the treaty of Sevres......that was the West that betrayed us, then they took over Turkey and gave you Ataturk, who removed Islam's power from Turkey and forced all Turks to be westernized, totally remove any future threat from Turks and made them their secular puppet. Since then Turkey is being used against Muslims in ME and to do Western leaders bitting. Look at Syria now....Turkey is getting ready to screw them up badly right after your President visits England. The Arab revolt against the Turks was instigated by Great Britain. And Britain, although a far weaker power today, is still playing a seminal role - except, it is encouraging the Turks to return to the Arab world. One hundred years ago, Britain successfully pitted the Arabs against the Turks. Today, Turks join hands with some Arabs who have a grouse against some other Arabs.

Majnun:
Since I am an Armenian (all Armenians are Christians) I cannot truly comment on what is Islamic and what is not on an Pakistani forum, in my opinion Turkey is an trator of Islam but that is just me, and my opinion as a Armenian can be biased so I agree......let the true Muslims of this forum decide for themselves.

Well to be perfectly honest i do agree with some of your points. Ataturk was indeed a good commander in war, but his ideas about making Turkey a copycat of Germany/France is against my beliefs. In my eyes Turkey/Ottoman is and was always greater both socially and humanely than Europe. After the introduction of nationalism, we have come much closer to Europe, which is really sad. Remember it was the Young Turks, inspired by France/Germany (most of them were Jewish), who persecuted Kurds and Armenians (they were brought to justice/court for their cruel actions later). I know many fellow Turkish members will feel angered by this post. But if we are to speak our mind, without any disturbances, we can lead to concensus. But if we attack each other with insults etc. i wont discuss any further. I am open to criticism but not insults.

 

[Cerian]

whut? thats not what i've heard.

we won at Canakkale and later beat them in the independence war!

Well Independence War fought only after Istanbul surrendered to Entente powers.

 

[cabatli_53]

And which of these acts according to you hurt Islam or the Turks?

He is an Armenian, he will always find a problem with Ataturk or any great Turkish leader.

Think a perfidious nation who made great advantages of Ottoman times as a first class citizen under the honour medals given by Ottoman officials, was sitting on their chairs/killing civilian Turkish population and supporting the invader countries to seperate the country ( Which They feed their stomaches thanks to the country they stabbed in the back) into many pieces in difficult times of Turks (According to plan, One pieces of those lands will be given as a gift to Armos If they support them) and All plans of those parasites feeding over Turks had been blocked thanks to great intelligence and mastermind of a leader called M. Kemal Ataturk and his fellow fighters. (That's why I admire this man, He is a great leader that Any country couldn't have in past and won't have in future as well. Our great soldiers, ou great commanders under the management of M. Kemal Ataturk are a gift of Allah to Turkish nation in that years which Turkish nation falled ino really difficult conditions )

Now a days, Those perfidious nation established a small country next to Turkey-Azerbaijan but They can not reach the borders promised by imperial powers and so They started composing the songs citing the lands they eyed but can't own and never will be in those years and singing their composed songs in foreign countries as well under the name of so called Genocide, While their mouthes are smelling couse of hunger, While the country they stabed in the back is rising as a star with technology, power, strategies...etc


If You think all those complexity conditions they have falled against Turks and try to get their ill habit of mind, You would reach the respond of the questions of Why Armos are trying to throw mud everything related with Turks, Turkey ? A Turkiye with dogmas (Isolated like Iran, Syria...etc) will be benefical for Turkish nation or todays's enemies ? If not, Why this Armo accuse Ataturk to bring Western standart living quality, Rules, Technology, Working mentality, Wearings and advised future's statesman to manage a Turkey whose mentality,technology to be based completely scientific achievements as a way Turkish nation has to follow instead of dogmas for a clear future ? You know The response is clear. In Additions, Even Today's Turkish governments are applying European constitutional rules, standarts, regulations to Turkey for more freedom, living standarts, economical advancements....etc Then, what's wrong with Ataturk who saw all those truths 90 years ago ?

Hmmmm. Desperation and butthurt !!!

 

[Quasar]

So you claim that hats, letters, measurement systems , giving or not giving women equal rights are all about Islam.

So for you a Muslim;
- must wear a fez ,
- must be preferably illiterate (Literacy rate was less than %5 before Republic now more than %99 thanks to easy learning latin alphabet ),
- must use ancient measurement systems and always must have difficulties with world trade, preferably don't make world trade instead non-muslim minorities like greeks and armenians do worldwide trade for him,
- must not give women equal rights, lock them in their houses and never use them in industry and business world as manpower and always use %50 capacity of the population,
- must never spread true Islam belief, must always have 1000's of different sects and groups fighting with each other and never live in a peace, (unity is not something for only christian churchs)

Ataturk tried to find solutions for these kind of problems that led Turks get weakend during history,

@Zulkarneyn

I do agree that we should be able to discuss our history there is no doubt about it! however Ottoman is not an exception!

we should thank Cirit since he managed to summarize the Turkish revolution through enlisting some substantial facts!

such reformist movements are not unique to us i.e adopting contemporary and more successful systems! even Ottomans merged the Seljuk heritage with Byzantine! Fatih sultan Mehmet is an other good example "the new Rome" or Mahmut the II and Selim the III

lets take Japan or Russia for instance! simply they are the best and the most successful examples of modernization and reforms! as you might agree they were and still they are equally as conservative as our society ( without any negative connotations) with the advantage of in the case of japan a homogeneous society and in the case of Russia a vast amount of natural and human resource! hope you may reconsider some aspects of your understanding in the light of this historical context!

 

[Drawn_Sword_of_God]

ww1 was a sad end for the 2nd greatest islamic empire after the rashidun

 

[Zulkarneyn]

@Zulkarneyn

I do agree that we should be able to discuss our history there is no doubt about it! however Ottoman is not an exception!

we should thank Cirit since he managed to summarize the Turkish revolution through enlisting some substantial facts!

such reformist movements are not unique to us i.e adopting contemporary and more successful systems! even Ottomans merged the Seljuk heritage with Byzantine! Fatih sultan Mehmet is an other good example "the new Rome" or Mahmut the II and Selim the III

lets take Japan or Russia for instance! simply they are the best and the most successful examples of modernization and reforms! as you might agree they were and still they are equally as conservative as our society ( without any negative connotations) with the advantage of in the case of japan a homogeneous society and in the case of Russia a vast amount of natural and human resource! hope you may reconsider some aspects of your understanding in the light of this historical context!

I am fully open to critizise Ottoman as i am to the Young Turk/Ataturk revolution. I do accept to some degree that the the last centuries of the Ottoman empire was plagued by scarce/limited technological and socio-economic developments. And that is also why the imperial age in Europe ended (Austro-Hungarry, Ottoman, German empire) and a new age begun. Yet what i oppose about the transitional phase between Ottoman empire and Turkish Republic is that we did the revolution based on ideas that we got from France and Germany, so to say they were entirely European in its very core.

Look, you can't deny that we adopted countless of European values/institutions. Our "professionals" (artists, writers, politicans etc) assumed that following the European model from top to toe would only benefit our country. Yet they were to some degree wrong in that assumption. We gave away so much of our core beliefs in the transitional phase that they are almost forgotten today.