Future Submarine Acquisition: SSK Andrasta & A26 SSK

[black-hawk_101]

This is just an assumption for PN future needs.

Andrastra is a submarine design concept announced by the French shipbuilder DCNS in 2008. A development of the Scorpène class submarine and based on the previous SMX-23 concept,[3] it is a smaller vessel optimised for shallow water operations. DCNS advertising material for the ship concept, in a PDF document with a date-time stamp of October 19, 2008, includes information and digital illustrations that reveal the torpedo tube configuration and other details.[4] The draught of the proposed submarine is apparent from the numbered depth markings shown on the hull in one of the illustrations. It is designed for anti-submarine and anti-surface warfare, as well as intelligence gathering and special operations.

Andrasta-class submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
SSK Andrasta Littoral Submarine - Naval Technology


A26 is[4] the project name of the next generation of submarines developed by Kockums for the Swedish Navy. First planned at the beginning of the 1990s, the project was called "U-båt 2000" and was intended to be ready by the late 1990s or early 2000. With the end of the Cold War the naval threat from the Soviet Union disappeared and the new submarine class was deemed unnecessary.[5] The project lay dormant for years until the mid-2000s when the need for a replacement for the Södermanland class became apparent. Originally the Scandinavian countries had intended to collaborate on the Viking class, but Denmark's withdrawal from submarine operations meant that Kockums proceeded on their own.

A26 submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Kockums A26 Submarine - Naval Technology

 

[black-hawk_101]

I think if PN makes a deal for both SSKs then it would be great as Chinese equipment don't last long.

 

[MadDog]

I think if PN makes a deal for both SSKs then it would be great as Chinese equipment don't last long.

Lol funny, most of the equipment used in all the submarines produced across the world is made in China these days, all the major manufacturing industries and automobile manufacturers, even aircraft manufacturers like Boeing are now moving their manufacturing plants to China and here we have such a smart kid who thinks that things made in China don't last long, pathetic !!!

 

[Sulman Badshah]

I think if PN makes a deal for both SSKs then it would be great as Chinese equipment don't last long.

we need submarines for nuclear capable strikes .. and EU nation will not allow to modify the submarine .any deal will be scrapped like Type 214

Chinese submarines are our best bet in this ...

 

[I S I]

I think if PN makes a deal for both SSKs then it would be great as Chinese equipment don't last long.

I bet you made this thread just to poke fun at Chinese weapons....


Get a life.

 

[Sulman Badshah]

Andarasta is a small submarine which can't go into deep waters .. It is for coastal defence

range is less and endurance is also very less

it is 800 ton sub and Hundai submarine with 500+ ton give almost same capbility

 

[war&peace]

For future submarines, we have to focus on PN needs. Pakistan needs to consolidate its sea-based 2nd strike capability with nuclear powered submarines that can remain submerged for a very long time lurking deep in the sea silently so the enemy is always frightened. In total they carry around 70 -100 nukes of various sizes and yields enough to wipe out hindu india in second strike in case india attacks Pakistan with nukes. This means we need to develop our own submarine project with the accumulated knowledge gained through the construction of Agosta-90Bs and Chine SN20s and may need little foreign assistance. Through credible resources, Pakistan has already developed a nuclear powered engine for submarines and it had been tested and developed in various sizes to replace engines in some of the existing and of course for future submarines and even large ships, aircraft carriers etc.
Then we need a few submarines equipped with short to medium range SLCMs and SLBMs to attack enemy vessels and especially aircraft carriers.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

This is just an assumption for PN future needs.

Andrastra is a submarine design concept announced by the French shipbuilder DCNS in 2008. A development of the Scorpène class submarine and based on the previous SMX-23 concept,[3] it is a smaller vessel optimised for shallow water operations. DCNS advertising material for the ship concept, in a PDF document with a date-time stamp of October 19, 2008, includes information and digital illustrations that reveal the torpedo tube configuration and other details.[4] The draught of the proposed submarine is apparent from the numbered depth markings shown on the hull in one of the illustrations. It is designed for anti-submarine and anti-surface warfare, as well as intelligence gathering and special operations.

Andrasta-class submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
SSK Andrasta Littoral Submarine - Naval Technology


A26 is[4] the project name of the next generation of submarines developed by Kockums for the Swedish Navy. First planned at the beginning of the 1990s, the project was called "U-båt 2000" and was intended to be ready by the late 1990s or early 2000. With the end of the Cold War the naval threat from the Soviet Union disappeared and the new submarine class was deemed unnecessary.[5] The project lay dormant for years until the mid-2000s when the need for a replacement for the Södermanland class became apparent. Originally the Scandinavian countries had intended to collaborate on the Viking class, but Denmark's withdrawal from submarine operations meant that Kockums proceeded on their own.

A26 submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Kockums A26 Submarine - Naval Technology

Thank you for all this detail -- great work and analysis. However, the analysis that needs to be done is:

1. Who going to sell to us keeping in view Indian shopping spree?
2. Who is going to extend credit and soft loans?
3. Sweden -- has never sold us offensive weapons no has Germany for that matter -- so where do we stand from that perspective??
4. Any third party approvals needed for say the Sonar/sensors, power plant, torps, missiles, etc.

 

[313baberali]

Good,what ever we will order or already in process,i just want to add one thing ,which Pakistan navy did it before at the time of Augusta ,which is custom changes and more good systems and options.we did it before thats why our subs are bigger then the rest of same class,more depth capability. Same thing we want to add all new orders and existing order of chinese subs,even its better if navy get every year only one submarine in this way every year option of adding latest technology is always avaliable,its always a edge factor when forces have something diffrent then the rest of the world.we need some westeren technology subs also(like mention by the author in the tread) a order of 3or5 needed atleast one western sub twice a year.

Lol funny, most of the equipment used in all the submarines produced across the world is made in China these days, all the major manufacturing industries and automobile manufacturers, even aircraft manufacturers like Boeing are now moving their manufacturing plants to China and here we have such a smart kid who thinks that things made in China don't last long, pathetic !!!

Well its not matter what china made ,its matter who place the order,and its Chinese trade standard to build according to east or west,thats why its a big quality difference .if Pak is strick to quality then We will get best

 

[black-hawk_101]

@313baberali

Sir PN has not made a perfect decision and still these options are open. Money is not a big problem they just have to force the GoP to give them as privatization is going on.

Thank you for all this detail -- great work and analysis. However, the analysis that needs to be done is:

1. Who going to sell to us keeping in view Indian shopping spree?
2. Who is going to extend credit and soft loans?
3. Sweden -- has never sold us offensive weapons no has Germany for that matter -- so where do we stand from that perspective??
4. Any third party approvals needed for say the Sonar/sensors, power plant, torps, missiles, etc.

You are right on all of the points. Sweden, was ready to sell us the Grippen C/D but it refused as they were competing with the Indian MRCA deal. But now the condition are totally different.

Sweden would be ready to sell us anything if we negotiate. Pakistan has a reserve of about $20+ Billions and more will be coming soon if just the Govt. did it in the right manner by privatizing the firms quickly as possible.

 

[black-hawk_101]

My best choice for the SSKs would be that PN should simply placed an order in 2005-2007 and don't mention that it will integrate the babur in the submarines later.

6 U-214P
6 Scorpions

And later order:
10-12 Andrasta
6 A-26 from Sweden

All submarines to be build in Karachi with Foreign help.

 

[Sulman Badshah]

My best choice for the SSKs would be that PN should simply placed an order in 2005-2007 and don't mention that it will integrate the babur in the submarines later.

6 U-214P
6 Scorpions

And later order:
10-12 Andrasta
6 A-26 from Sweden

All submarines to be build in Karachi with Foreign help

Pakistan defence budget isn't 50 B USD ..that PN should procure all above mentioned

 

[black-hawk_101]

Pakistan defence budget isn't 50 B USD ..that PN should procure all above mentioned

See this:

Why Andrasta is good.

 

[Sulman Badshah]

Why Andrasta is good.

still andarasta can't operate in deep sea waters ... it is a coastal defence submarine

 

[black-hawk_101]

still andarasta can't operate in deep sea waters ... it is a coastal defence submarine

I know that. It will be for coastal.