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The dangers in Delhi’s dream of overtaking China
David Pilling


India’s overly inflated statistics are breeding a false sense of security



Shining India is back. At least that’s what many hyperbolic Indians would have you believe. With China’s economy slowing and its markets and policymaking credentials upended, India is plausibly poised to take over as the world’s fastest-growing large economy. Many Indians, deploying language that evokes the “India Shining” campaign used when Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s Bharatiya Janata party was last in power a decade ago, see more than a glimmer of opportunity in China’s misfortunes.

Arun Jaitley, finance minister, said in an interview with the BBC: “An economy which can grow at 8 to 9 per cent like India certainly has viable shoulders to provide support to the global economy.” Adi Godrej, head of the eponymous consumer goods group, said it was a fine time for India to “shine”. In one of the strongest “move-over-China” remarks, Jayant Sinha, minister of state for finance, said Delhi was ready to “take the baton of global growth” from Beijing. He chirpily told an audience in Bihar, one of India’s poorest and most benighted states:
“In coming days, India will leave China behind as far as growth and development matter.”

On the face of it, there is room for optimism. As China seeks to wean itself off supercharged investment, its economy will inevitably slow. Officially, growth will glide down to 7 per cent this year. More likely, it could quickly head towards 5 per cent or below. India, meanwhile, is expected to expand at 7.7 per cent.

Unlike many other emerging economies, including fellow Brics nations Brazil, Russia and South Africa, India has not been buoyed by exports of high-priced commodities. That means it will not be dragged down by the Chinese-induced commodities slump. Far from it. India, the world’s third-biggest petroleum importer , benefits greatly from weak oil prices, which improve its current account position and ease inflationary pressures. Nor is India a big exporter of manufactured goods. Even if global demand is weak, its economy is relatively insulated, with 57 per cent of gross domestic product coming from household consumption.


Yet the idea that India is poised to become the global economy’s main event is flawed to say the least. If it induces complacency, it is positively dangerous. Hopes that India can replace China as the engine of global High growth are wide of the mark. In nominal terms — the most appropriate measure when judging an economy’s global impact — India’s output is one-fifth that of China’s. India makes up a mere 2.5 per cent of global GDP against a hefty 13.5 per cent for China. If China grew at 5 per cent annually, it would add an Indian-sized economy to its already hefty output in less than four years. Saying India can match this is like saying a mouse can pull a tractor. :rofl: :lol:


On balance, people have read too much into China’s market spasms. Certainly, botched attempts to prop up the stock market and to move to a more flexible exchange rate have shaken confidence in the perceived infallibility of Chinese policymaking. Certainly, too, recent turmoil is symptomatic of a deeper malaise in the Chinese economy as it goes through the pain of shifting from investment-led to consumption-led growth. For China, the days of relatively easy catch-up have ended. Yet to write China off is badly misguided. It has the momentum of 30 years’ extraordinary expansion behind it.

The idea that India will effortlessly float above Chinese growth levels is hopelessly smug. India’s statistics are as dubious as those of China. People forget that only last February, India changed the way it calculated GDP, adding more than 2 percentage points to its headline growth rate. On the old measure, India is still limping along at a far from impressive 5 per cent.


Inflated growth breeds a false sense of security. That may help explain why Mr Modi’s government has been so slow to pass much-trumpeted reforms. In this session of parliament, almost nothing has been done. The prime minister has been unable to enact a goods and services tax, which economists agree would make it easier to do business across a diverse set of states. Faced with opposition from farmers, he has all but abandoned land reform, which would have made it simpler to build factories, roads and power plants. Doing business in India continues to be anything but easy.

While the country is relatively isolated from the world economy, that is partly because it does not make much that others deem worth buying. For a country that wants to be the manufacturing hub to replace China, that seems more like a weakness than a strength.

None of these problems will disappear because rather dubious statistics say India is growing faster than China. Indian officials would do well to stop gloating — and start enacting some meaningful change.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/933ca4ba-5620-11e5-9846-de406ccb37f2.html#axzz3lbeFaOHk

:rofl: :lol:



 
. . .
Chinese economic model is not suitable for India. India chose a model which suits it.

China is not 5 times bigger than India, Chinese GDP is less than that and is slowing down. The slow down of Chinese economy continues in the next decade.

So economic growth wise India need not worry about Chinese growths. If Chinese venture into other countries for their growth, unemployment in their own country rises. If they export workers to other countries to increase their own growth then also it is not a profitable scenario.

The economic model followed by China is more suitable for the country to lift the poor and become a middle income country and China remains like that with aging population.

India has the advantage of the reforms because of falling oil prices, good relations with almost all countries including China, technology access, young population, plus stable Govt.

Indian model will be different and India will continue to rise.
 
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Chinese economic model is not suitable for India. India chose a model which suits it.

China is not 5 times bigger than India, Chinese GDP is less than that and is slowing down. The slow down of Chinese economy continues in the next decade.

So economic growth wise India need not worry about Chinese growths. If Chinese venture into other countries for their growth unemployment in their own country rises, if they export workers to other countries to increase their own growth then also it is not a profitable scenario.

The economic model followed by China is more suitable for the country to lift the poor and become a middle income country and China remains like that with aging population.

India has the advantage of the reforms because of falling oil prices, good relations with almost all countries including China, technology access, young population, plus stable Govt.

Indian model will be different and India will continue to rise.


well the biggest reason for Indian growth to sustain is domestic demands contribute 57% of our annual GDP unlike China model where it is dependent on make to finish goods of various categories
 
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One of the biggest jokes is that India's domestic demand contributes 57% of its GDP.

The lion shre of its GDP growth may well be its domestic demand growth, since its indsutrial, agricultural and service sectors barely grow.

So previously they bought 10 kg curry per year, now they buy 0.5kg more curry per year. Bang, that's 5% GDP growth! :omghaha:
 
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One of the biggest jokes is that India's domestic demand contributes 57% of its GDP.

The lion shre of its GDP growth may well be its domestic demand growth, since its indsutrial, agricultural and service sectors barely grow.

So previously they bought 10 kg curry per year, now they buy 0.5kg more curry per year. Bang, that's 5% GDP growth! :omghaha:

Go and complaint to the west, every day negative remark about chinese economy by western media

China August industrial output up 6.1% on-year vs +6.4% expected

Global recession in next two years is 'most likely' scenario, says economist | Business | The Guardian

Will China crash? - The Washington Post

India among few bright spots in global economy: IMF Chief - The Hindu
 
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Indeed, its a media ill conspiracy against Chna. The west is afraid of China. Which west media report truth of China?

What is wrong with a lot of western media coverage of China? - Quora

It like telling others, its better to learn Chinese history and language and culture from the whitemen than Chinese themselves. Becos whitemen knows better of Chinese than Chinese themselves. :lol:
 
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Chinese economic model is not suitable for India. India chose a model which suits it.

1) China is not 5 times bigger than India, Chinese GDP is less than that and is slowing down. The slow down of Chinese economy continues in the next decade.

2) So economic growth wise India need not worry about Chinese growths. If Chinese venture into other countries for their growth, unemployment in their own country rises. If they export workers to other countries to increase their own growth then also it is not a profitable scenario.

3) The economic model followed by China is more suitable for the country to lift the poor and become a middle income country and China remains like that with aging population.

4) India has the advantage of the reforms because of falling oil prices, good relations with almost all countries including China, technology access, young population, plus stable Govt.

Indian model will be different and India will continue to rise.

1) The GDP figures of both countries are dubious, however you onnly need your eyes to see that there is at least a 4-5 times difference in in the economies of the 2 countries

2) Who is asking India to worry about Chinas economic growth (except you and others in India). The idea that if China ventures into other countries will result in a automatic large scale unemployment is laughable. Economies gradually adjust when they export capital and aquire companies overseas. The labour force aquires new skills and are redeployed into other sectors that cater for and maintain these foreign aquisitions. If this were not the case then why would TATA own Jaguar and run it profitably while increasing its Indian workforce.

3) China will age but so has Japan USA UK Germany France scandinavian countries etc. these countries AGED 2-3 decades ago. These countries still have the highest per capita income.

4) The biggest lie here is the "reforms" . There are none and there is never likely to be any as the whole political/bureaucratic/licence class is never going to reform. There is tinkering at the edges by the BJP but that is as far as it will go ( this should be obvious to any observer who sincerely expected the BJP to carry out reforms )
 
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1) The GDP figures of both countries are dubious, however you onnly need your eyes to see that there is at least a 4-5 times difference in in the economies of the 2 countries

Concrete Jungles are not the standard for calculating GDP, Most of them are not income generating entities.


2) Who is asking India to worry about Chinas economic growth (except you and others in India). The idea that if China ventures into other countries will result in a automatic large scale unemployment is laughable. Economies gradually adjust when they export capital and aquire companies overseas. The labour force aquires new skills and are redeployed into other sectors that cater for and maintain these foreign aquisitions. If this were not the case then why would TATA own Jaguar and run it profitably while increasing its Indian workforce.

You have to read the article before answering my post, You have no reason to ask me this question.

Regarding labor acquiring skills and China acquiring companies abroad, These are not low wage jobs nor they are available plenty as if China has edge like in the manufacturing sector in the last decade.

You are talking as if China is the only power who is vying for this kind of acquisitions and trying to create jobs back in mainland of theirs. This is a competitive scenario where West, Japan and other countries hold edge because of their own advantages. China will take its pie but that will be not enough back home.


3) China will age but so has Japan USA UK Germany France scandinavian countries etc. these countries AGED 2-3 decades ago. These countries still have the highest per capita income.
Yes that is what I am saying the advantage China holds will fade and its massive aging population has to be taken care.


4) The biggest lie here is the "reforms" . There are none and there is never likely to be any as the whole political/bureaucratic/licence class is never going to reform. There is tinkering at the edges by the BJP but that is as far as it will go ( this should be obvious to any observer who sincerely expected the BJP to carry out reforms )


I am not sure what you are trying to convey here, watch the things happening in India.
 
. . .
The dangers in Delhi’s dream of overtaking China
David Pilling


India’s overly inflated statistics are breeding a false sense of security



Shining India is back. At least that’s what many hyperbolic Indians would have you believe. With China’s economy slowing and its markets and policymaking credentials upended, India is plausibly poised to take over as the world’s fastest-growing large economy. Many Indians, deploying language that evokes the “India Shining” campaign used when Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s Bharatiya Janata party was last in power a decade ago, see more than a glimmer of opportunity in China’s misfortunes.

Arun Jaitley, finance minister, said in an interview with the BBC: “An economy which can grow at 8 to 9 per cent like India certainly has viable shoulders to provide support to the global economy.” Adi Godrej, head of the eponymous consumer goods group, said it was a fine time for India to “shine”. In one of the strongest “move-over-China” remarks, Jayant Sinha, minister of state for finance, said Delhi was ready to “take the baton of global growth” from Beijing. He chirpily told an audience in Bihar, one of India’s poorest and most benighted states:
“In coming days, India will leave China behind as far as growth and development matter.”

On the face of it, there is room for optimism. As China seeks to wean itself off supercharged investment, its economy will inevitably slow. Officially, growth will glide down to 7 per cent this year. More likely, it could quickly head towards 5 per cent or below. India, meanwhile, is expected to expand at 7.7 per cent.

Unlike many other emerging economies, including fellow Brics nations Brazil, Russia and South Africa, India has not been buoyed by exports of high-priced commodities. That means it will not be dragged down by the Chinese-induced commodities slump. Far from it. India, the world’s third-biggest petroleum importer , benefits greatly from weak oil prices, which improve its current account position and ease inflationary pressures. Nor is India a big exporter of manufactured goods. Even if global demand is weak, its economy is relatively insulated, with 57 per cent of gross domestic product coming from household consumption.


Yet the idea that India is poised to become the global economy’s main event is flawed to say the least. If it induces complacency, it is positively dangerous. Hopes that India can replace China as the engine of global High growth are wide of the mark. In nominal terms — the most appropriate measure when judging an economy’s global impact — India’s output is one-fifth that of China’s. India makes up a mere 2.5 per cent of global GDP against a hefty 13.5 per cent for China. If China grew at 5 per cent annually, it would add an Indian-sized economy to its already hefty output in less than four years. Saying India can match this is like saying a mouse can pull a tractor. :rofl: :lol:


On balance, people have read too much into China’s market spasms. Certainly, botched attempts to prop up the stock market and to move to a more flexible exchange rate have shaken confidence in the perceived infallibility of Chinese policymaking. Certainly, too, recent turmoil is symptomatic of a deeper malaise in the Chinese economy as it goes through the pain of shifting from investment-led to consumption-led growth. For China, the days of relatively easy catch-up have ended. Yet to write China off is badly misguided. It has the momentum of 30 years’ extraordinary expansion behind it.

The idea that India will effortlessly float above Chinese growth levels is hopelessly smug. India’s statistics are as dubious as those of China. People forget that only last February, India changed the way it calculated GDP, adding more than 2 percentage points to its headline growth rate. On the old measure, India is still limping along at a far from impressive 5 per cent.


Inflated growth breeds a false sense of security. That may help explain why Mr Modi’s government has been so slow to pass much-trumpeted reforms. In this session of parliament, almost nothing has been done. The prime minister has been unable to enact a goods and services tax, which economists agree would make it easier to do business across a diverse set of states. Faced with opposition from farmers, he has all but abandoned land reform, which would have made it simpler to build factories, roads and power plants. Doing business in India continues to be anything but easy.

While the country is relatively isolated from the world economy, that is partly because it does not make much that others deem worth buying. For a country that wants to be the manufacturing hub to replace China, that seems more like a weakness than a strength.

None of these problems will disappear because rather dubious statistics say India is growing faster than China. Indian officials would do well to stop gloating — and start enacting some meaningful change.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/933ca4ba-5620-11e5-9846-de406ccb37f2.html#axzz3lbeFaOHk

:rofl: :lol:




In the comment section of FT, drama queen Indians have been crying, tearing their hairs off going bananas! :rofl: :dance3:
 
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Chinese economic model is not suitable for India. India chose a model which suits it.

China is not 5 times bigger than India, Chinese GDP is less than that and is slowing down. The slow down of Chinese economy continues in the next decade.

So economic growth wise India need not worry about Chinese growths. If Chinese venture into other countries for their growth, unemployment in their own country rises. If they export workers to other countries to increase their own growth then also it is not a profitable scenario.

The economic model followed by China is more suitable for the country to lift the poor and become a middle income country and China remains like that with aging population.

India has the advantage of the reforms because of falling oil prices, good relations with almost all countries including China, technology access, young population, plus stable Govt.

Indian model will be different and India will continue to rise.

first of all
--------------------------china-------------------india------------(both 2014 nominal figures in millions)
IMF-----------------10,380,380-------------2,049,501-------->china's 5.06 times greater
World bank-------10,360,105-------------2,066,902-------->china's 5.01 times greater
CIA-----------------10,380,000-------------2,050,000-------->china's 5.06 times greater

so where ever they are teaching you math, they are doing it wrong.

secondly, you clearly do not know even the least bit about economics by your third paragraph

third, you kinda have to lift your poor out of poverty and become a middle income country before becoming rich. or you can be like india where a handful are rich and the rest remain in desperate poverty.

fourthly, india does have many things going for it, it just needs to take advantage of them. sadly it has not done so in the past
 
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