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From Past:: Battle of Saragarhi: When 21 Sikhs Faced 14,000 Pashtuns And Won

Read it somewhere else as reported that Tribesmen set fire to the surrounding bushes so taking advantage of smoke, helped to breach into the wall.

While looking at the situation, indeed it is very difficult to breach a fort where the defenders are already positioned and the attackers are in open and seems like the same was on minds of tribesmen as well. Also, by others sources it was reported as 180 casualties of the tribesmen.

No doubt, these reported 21 men fought bravely to defend the post.

As you mentioned, I suspect that it was the attackers who fired the undergrowth around the fort and got close to the walls using the haze and confusion. And 180 casualties is also more reasonable, although it could have been higher: the battle went on for some time, and during the final rushes, the attackers would have been vulnerable. The figure of 600 counted at the time of recovery of the fort is also plausible, not contradictory; the recovery column used artillery fire, and must have caused heavy casualties on the gathered crowd of celebrating tribesmen.
 
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As you mentioned, I suspect that it was the attackers who fired the undergrowth around the fort and got close to the walls using the haze and confusion. And 180 casualties is also more reasonable, although it could have been higher: the battle went on for some time, and during the final rushes, the attackers would have been vulnerable. The figure of 600 counted at the time of recovery of the fort is also plausible, not contradictory; the recovery column used artillery fire, and must have caused heavy casualties on the gathered crowd of celebrating tribesmen.

You are right Sir, as the trained or little mannered soldiers can do a lot better than regulars. To my observations and reading it through different pages, the tribesmen taken heavy casualties till they did not breach prior to the recovery column that used Artillery fire as the defenders were inside the fort and tribesmen were attacking through charging again and again.

IMO, setting fire by the fort soldiers does not fit the logic as they would have blinded themselves/less sight on attackers whereby the attackers were of no choice but to avoid being shot, set fire for the advantage of smoke and that's what they did.
 
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The Battle of Saragarhi

Ministry of Defence and Julian Brazier MP
First published:
14 September 2015


The 21 Sikh soldiers who fought in the Battle of Saragarhi were commemorated this weekend at Armoury House, London.

s300_Saragarhi_2.jpg

On 12th September 1897, 21 British Indian Army Sepoys (Sikh soldiers) defended the Saragarhi outpost in the hills of the North West Frontier Province, now Pakistan but then part of British India, against 10,000 Afghan tribesmen. Rather than surrender, the soldiers fought to the death for nearly 10 hours with ammunition and bayonets. Although the outpost was lost, the Afghans later admitted to having lost around 180 of their soldiers and many more wounded, demonstrating the expertise of the Sikh soldiers. To honour the selfless commitment and courage of these Sikh warriors they were posthumously awarded the Indian Order of Merit, the highest gallantry award of the time.

This is the second year that the Armed Forces have commemorated the Battle of Saragarhi. It’s a significant event for Sikh personnel, and the event this year also offered the opportunity to celebrate present Sikh heroes within the Armed Forces; Regulars, Reservists and Cadets.

The bravery, skill and loyalty to duty demonstrated in the battle serve as an example to all military personnel today. There are currently around 180 Sikhs in the British Army performing a range of roles, from infantry soldiers to medics to HR administration, and the integral contribution and success of Sikh personnel in the Armed Forces is undoubtedly due to the values that are shared between Sikhism and the Armed Forces: courage, discipline, respect for others, integrity, loyalty, and commitment.

During the course of the morning, the First World War Sikh Heritage Platoon recalled stories of their great grandfathers and Jay Singh-Sohal explained about the selfless commitment and bravery of Sikhs from their unflinching loyalty in 1897 to operations today. Serving soldiers and cadets enthused about the benefits they currently enjoy from serving, and the opportunities Army life offers for future careers beyond the military.

Adding colour and pageantry to the commemorative event, the Band of Rifles marched and played traditional music. One of their number Rifleman Mandeep Singh, 25, from Birmingham is himself a proud Sikh. Lance Corporal Ian Chave played the last post and a solemn silence was held in memory of all those who had fallen in service of the Crown, before a dramatic “War Cry” was performed by Captain Makand Singh. Then the guests were treated to a Punjabi lunch with spiced tea in the Honourable Artillery Company’s historic Prince Consort Rooms.

Reserves Minister Julian Brazier said:

We’re determined to make sure that any Sikh joining up will feel at home in the Armed Forces of today. That’s why we have the British Armed Forces Sikh Association providing personnel with a practical support network, complemented by the spiritual guidance offered by our Sikh Chaplain. We have prayer rooms in every unit, vegetarian ration packs for every operation, and a flexible dress code so that these days a Sikh in a turban can stand guard outside Buckingham Palace.

Today is a unique opportunity to come together, not simply to commemorate an extraordinary event, but to strengthen our great bonds and, inspired by the recollection of our shared past, we want to encourage even greater Sikh participation in the future force of tomorrow, so together we can write a proud new chapter in the history of Britain.

Major Sartaj Singh Gogna, 37, from Brentwood is a senior instructor at the School of Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineering in Arborfield. He joined the Army 15 years ago and as Chairman of the British Armed Forces Sikh Association he often get asked about the challenges facing Sikhs thinking of joining the Army.

When I signed up I was a clean shaven, short haired bloke. And surprisingly it was the Army that has helped me to grow spiritually and supported my decision to become a fully practising Sikh, wearing my Dastar (turban).

Lieutenant Daljinder Virdee, 25, from Iver Buckinghamshire is a pharmacist officer in 256 Field Hospital Royal Army Medical Corps (RAMC) in London. He said he takes inspiration from the 21 Saragarhi Warriors every day, commenting:

The RAMC motto is strength in adversity and in tough times when odds are stacked against you these soldiers stood their ground and did not give an inch. They were my forefathers and their strength is in all of us.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/armed-forces-commemorate-the-battle-of-saragarhi

Soora sau pehchaniye jo lade deen ke hait. Purja purja kat mare, kabhun na chhade khait.
 
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You do make intelligent observations. Some day, your posts will be read with admiration. Please keep working on them.

LOL

This is the BEST post of the YEAR :-)

SIR ; You have GOT a way with WORDS ; Even your critics Love you :enjoy:
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In India's case too The battle of LONGEWALA was fought by Punjab Regiment
commanded by Major Kuldip Singh Chandpuri

Here ALSO the ODDS were impossible

It was super human courage that saw them stay till the morning
 
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@GR!FF!N why are you dragging Pakistan into this?

@Joe Shearer

Sir, are you aware of Battle (or lack thereof) of Islamgarh in 1971? It occurred on the night of Longewala. 3rd Battalion Rajputana Rifles walked in as the 12 Div pulled back to meet Pakistani threat and took Islamgarh and with no fatality?

As luck would have it, Longewala took laurels and single biggest victory of an Indian army unit in terms of territory taken comes only as a sentence in official history.

Incidentally God's Own ... we had a small interaction on this about your post quoting someone of his stay in 2002 in dawar

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/122nd_Rajputana_Infantry_(God's_Own)
 
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Great post, Techy. I noted with interest your initial remark on
the lesser interest gathered by Colonial era battles nowadays.

The story of Saragarhi can be put in relation with that of Camerone
in Mexico, also a bottleneck fight to preserve forces further out.

As for your question about defensive tactics, without a precise plan
of the area and considering the armament at the time, in a properly
entrenched base, the only one that really makes sense is to fire as
late as possible to make every bullet count.
Of course, that should be tempered by the impressive numbers of the
assailants : you wouldn't want them to overrun first defenses and mas-
sively gather close to your walls.

Have a great day and thanks, Tay.
 
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@GR!FF!N why are you dragging Pakistan into this?

@Joe Shearer

Sir, are you aware of Battle (or lack thereof) of Islamgarh in 1971? It occurred on the night of Longewala. 3rd Battalion Rajputana Rifles walked in as the 12 Div pulled back to meet Pakistani threat and took Islamgarh and with no fatality?

As luck would have it, Longewala took laurels and single biggest victory of an Indian army unit in terms of territory taken comes only as a sentence in official history.

Incidentally God's Own ... we had a small interaction on this about your post quoting someone of his stay in 2002 in dawar

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/122nd_Rajputana_Infantry_(God's_Own)

Good grief, no, I had no clue! Thanks, now I have to look it up, BUT ALL MY DAMN BOOKS ARE IN DB. :angry:
:cray::cray::cray:

What was this last bit?

Incidentally God's Own ... we had a small interaction on this about your post quoting someone of his stay in 2002 in dawar
 
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Good grief, no, I had no clue! Thanks, now I have to look it up, BUT ALL MY DAMN BOOKS ARE IN DB. :angry:
:cray::cray::cray:

What was this last bit?

You had quoted someone's post of having stayed in Dawar in Rajputana Rifles unit in 2002. I had asked had you stayed with God's own , you told you were quoting a famous Bengali verbatim. Been a while back.

You won't find much of battle of Islamgarh except in unit archives.

This unit gave rise to portions of 9 SF as we know today, Megh force being formed in the units nucleus contrary to popular belief of rise of 9 SF. The link I gave you mentions then 2/Lt (later Col) Mohinder Singh. He operated in the infamous raid on Kahuta by Megh Force.

Had an honor to meet him back in 1992. Carried weapons on his self, he had a reward on his head for his acts which follow next.

Story is, he went on raid, got kills and all laughed at his claim of kills. Next raid, came back carrying left ear of all his personal kills and leaving a black button as his calling card, people stopped laughing. Cited for PVC but due to the human rights violation was given MVC.

Also, in a raid, lost one guy who could not be accounted for as dead. He went back to find the guy and told rest of team to exfilterate.

Carried the guy on his shoulders alone across Pakistan held territory for 48 hours and successfully exfilterated.

In his command, he never walked. The respect and love of his unit was such, a palanquin would be brought for CO to go anywhere. This in early 80s.
 
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@GR!FF!N why are you dragging Pakistan into this?

@Joe Shearer

Sir, are you aware of Battle (or lack thereof) of Islamgarh in 1971? It occurred on the night of Longewala. 3rd Battalion Rajputana Rifles walked in as the 12 Div pulled back to meet Pakistani threat and took Islamgarh and with no fatality?

As luck would have it, Longewala took laurels and single biggest victory of an Indian army unit in terms of territory taken comes only as a sentence in official history.

Incidentally God's Own ... we had a small interaction on this about your post quoting someone of his stay in 2002 in dawar

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/122nd_Rajputana_Infantry_(God's_Own)

Just finished a lovely read; thank you very much.

You had quoted someone's post of having stayed in Dawar in Rajputana Rifles unit in 2002. I had asked had you stayed with God's own , you told you were quoting a famous Bengali verbatim. Been a while back.

You won't find much of battle of Islamgarh except in unit archives.

This unit gave rise to portions of 9 SF as we know today, Megh force being formed in the units nucleus contrary to popular belief of rise of 9 SF. The link I gave you mentions then 2/Lt (later Col) Mohinder Singh. He operated in the infamous raid on Kahuta by Megh Force.

Had an honor to meet him back in 1992. Carried weapons on his self, he had a reward on his head for his acts which follow next.

Story is, he went on raid, got kills and all laughed at his claim of kills. Next raid, came back carrying left ear of all his personal kills and leaving a black button as his calling card, people stopped laughing. Cited for PVC but due to the human rights violation was given MVC.

Also, in a raid, lost one guy who could not be accounted for as dead. He went back to find the guy and told rest of team to exfilterate.

Carried the guy on his shoulders alone across Pakistan held territory for 48 hours and successfully exfilterated.

In his command, he never walked. The respect and love of his unit was such, a palanquin would be brought for CO to go anywhere. This in early 80s.

Sonia Jabbar, owner of Naxalbari Tea Estate.
 
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In battle of 3234,it has been claimed that SSG commandos took part with Mujaheddin forces.
"Claimed"

SSG played the same role as the CIA did in Afghanistan.

They would mostly organize, train, supervise and lead the Mujahideen.

Sometimes they would be sent for small-scale special operations far behind the enemy lines but with little Mujahideen support.

The SSG may have overseen the battle but not participate in it.

The Soviets feared the SSG and the West praised them; there is a reason for that.
 
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Sikhs Served British well than some other colonies that is a well established fact.

Currently this and Bollywood keep Sikhs happy. Operation Blue Star and now through Bollywood..Hindus....
They choose India 70 years ago, get over it man.
Not everybody wants a seperate state on religious lines.
 
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They choose India 70 years ago, get over it man.
Not everybody wants a seperate state on religious lines.


I am over it, don’t really care. This geezer and his pets came into play, taking up on the local zoo characters but fair play to them. :lol:

Now you’re talking Muslims as a group, if they were in similar numbers and as strong. They would have achieved their goal of a separate country. The world powers would have made sure of that (united India was unacceptable to the establishment), if in any case they did not succeed which was unlikely.
 
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