I think Indira Gandhi articulated her "plans" for Pakistan were more than mere appeasement to Indian masses.
And another Indian - oops, sorry! - Australian bites the dust. Quite honestly, she was a master tactician, as her political career will show on close examination. She was no strategist. She did not have the patience to mount a campaign over several months. Much of that famous interview is self-serving, Indira at her best. The kindest description of her would be a consummate opportunist. She actually had nothing in mind but a demonstrative action, and certainly none of her actions, in and out of the cabinet, showed any slight inkling that she had a greater purpose other than to rattle the bars. You are aware , of course, that a key minister was reporting the cabinet proceedings meeting by meeting to the CIA. While some elements in the Indian establishment took evasive action, others, including, in all probability, Indira, remained oblivious. What we gain from this multi-faceted insight, is that she hoped for a 65-like situation, which would force the Pakistani troops in East Pakistan onto the back foot, and give her room to insist that the refugees be allowed back as a condition for peace.
It was the military that delivered a most unexpected and conclusive victory.
Both of these situations have to do with the fact that India is the darling of the dominant West for now and the Indian narrative gets preference over Pakistan's. Note that India has been trying this Pak terrorism angle for a while but was getting nowhere before 9/11.
I thought we were discussing the academic and analytical segment.
If somebody or a group of people analyse the narratives of dead LeT terrorists, and concludes that they come from the same class and background as the bulk of the PA, and that they are mainly deployed in terrorist attacks in Afghanistan and in India, and that they all die within five years of beginning training, is that an Indian narrative?
Further, if your contention is to be taken at face value, then Pakistan got artificial shelter for decades before that, and her actions escaped scrutiny because of the benign attitude of her patrons.
Why complain when the situation reverses?
You will make us think that your proposal to step back is actually intended to buy time until the pendulum swings again, in Pakistan's favour. As you probably realise, as your comment a few steps below indicates, this is a dicey proposition. It may happen, it may not. The world is changing.
That's not a fair objection. It's like saying why bother saving one child unless you can save them all.
Pakistan is not the global policeman; we should do what we can according to our abilities and focus on our region. Setting aside the fact that the Kashmiris asked us, unlike these others, there is an ethnic and cultural bond with Kashmiris which makes their struggle more immediate.
You have a point in saying my objection was not a fair objection. I am withdrawing it. That does not constitute an agreement with your subsequent afterthought, that ethnic and cultural bonds make the struggle of the Kashmiris (assuming that it exists independent of ISI subventions) immediate. Whose ethnicity? Which culture? Even the Mirpuris culture is distinct from the Kashmiri. The ethnicity is shared with no element of existing Pakistan.
My retraction is only of my remark that Pakistan should have thought of the wider suffering masses other than their favourite Kashmiris.
Are you saying Pakistan is out to prove that Muslims are the equals (or superiors) of Hindus? While I don't deny that some Pakistanis might feel that way, I don't think most Pakistanis think of it that way on a conscious level.
As far as competition with India as a country, what is so wrong with setting goals and benchmarks? If it wasn't India, it might be Iran or Turkey, Malaysia or China.
I believe that this was behind the Two Nation Theory, an unwillingness to accept that a return to the Delhi Sultanate or to the Mughal Empire was no longer possible in modern conditions, and a concomitant unwillingness to deal with the reality of contemporary demographics.
Today I am engaged in setting up a private university in the heart of what was Rohilkhand. The intention, to give hope and opportunities for progress to a backward area. There are 1,000 hostel beds for men, another 1,000 for women. It is our common fond hope that this may cut short the frustration which makes the area notorious for producing nothing more than 'shooters' for Bombay mobs. More than the demographic share of teachers and administrators is from a particular community, and we are encouraging it, without turning the place into another parochial minority institution.
There was, in fact, no reason to worry. There was every sign of envy and of a desire to enjoy distinction beyond individual capacity or desert.
While it may not be in the day-to-day thinking of most Pakistanis, this need to stand on a pedestal was quite evident in every utterance of the political leaders of the community before independence, and it is readily available in every single thread on PDF. Look, for instance, at the idiotic thread on mathematicians. Lame though the topic might be, it impelled people to call the list of mathematicians a list of prehistoric Hindu cavemen.
I am being empirical, not didactic, in my selection of evidence.
Pakistan should observe every country and copy tactics which have proven to give results. Ultimately, the race is with oneself, but it never hurts to see where one is in the race itself.
Put that way, who can cavil?
There's the hard sell again: take the deal now 'cause that's the best you'll ever get.
Maybe we will, maybe we won't.
Oh, absolutely.
Think of me as a somewhat unlikely Cassandra, not as a Procrustes.
We are in full agreement that Pakistan has not been able to project a global image on its own terms, and has been defined by others.
I had hoped, and seemingly that was hoping for too much, that some reflections on morality would come up for airing. Never mind.
The fact that I am able to conduct a most rational discussion with the redoubtable
Developereo, he who strode the field like a latter day du Guesclin, is progress. I leave with my head intact. Huge progress.
