Frequency of Mitochondrial haplogroups of tribes living Mansehra and Abbotabad District

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

which caste has the fairest complexion and the sharpest facial features in Pakistan?

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

which caste has the fairest complexion and the sharpest facial features in Pakistan?

We don't believe in caste system, it's mostly limited to the Hindu communities in Pakistan. Here it is mostly tribes/baradaris. There is no belief of superiority over one another, neither do they have a specific class/role. At the most, there are some limited stereotypes but it's mostly comedic related, and people don't mind making fun of their own baradaris.

It's hard to say which baradari has the sharpest facial features and the fairest skin, Pakistan is a mostly rural and agricultural-centered society, people work the fields and tend to be tan from the sun. People living in Urban cities as middle-class tend to be really fair. Almost all tribes are pretty much the same; it's very hard to distinguish one another, there are South Indian tribes such as Churas that can easily be distinguished from the rest.

 

[Pakistani E]

which caste has the fairest complexion and the sharpest facial features in Pakistan?

Ah please, forgive me but this is not an Indian thread. I, nor most other Pakistanis, do not really care about that stuff.

We don't believe in caste system, it's mostly limited to the Hindu communities in Pakistan. Here it is mostly tribes/baradaris. There is no belief of superiority over one another, neither do they have a specific class/role. At the most, there are some limited stereotypes but it's mostly comedic related, and people don't mind making fun of their own baradaris.

It's hard to say which baradari has the sharpest facial features and the fairest skin, Pakistan is a mostly rural and agricultural-centered society, people work the fields and tend to be tan from the sun. People living in Urban cities as middle-class tend to be really fair. Almost all tribes are pretty much the same; it's very hard to distinguish one another, there are South Indian tribes such as Churas that can easily be distinguished from the rest.

Thank you for that astute observation.

 

[defence_analyst]

@H!TchHiker Someone seriously needs to find the Awans of Afghanistan and see how they live etc. It would be very interesting to know their own traditions about their origins and how they got in to Afghanistan.

Awans in Afghanistan don't exist but gujjars do.

which caste has the fairest complexion and the sharpest facial features in Pakistan?

Among indo-aryans tribes/castes in punjab those who have least relation with NW Indian castes tend to be lighter skinned. These are arains, awans, abbasis etc Likes of rajputs and jatts are mixed bag and also depend on where they live because they clearly had historical relations with NW Indians of same castes hence their relatively darker skin tones. This is my observation otherwise its hard to see difference. The more closer you get to Indian border, darker the skin colour, especially in south east regions of Pakistan.

Chuhras/christians/masalis are dark skinned in general irrespective of place as these people tend to move from village to village and end up in many places. They also stick out the most.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

Instead of caste or tribe or clan, I should have used the nomenclature population group..works both ways,,,thanks for the answer....

 

[defence_analyst]

@H!TchHiker Someone seriously needs to find the Awans of Afghanistan and see how they live etc. It would be very interesting to know their own traditions about their origins and how they got in to Afghanistan.

British documented that mussalis/chuhras in KP villages identify as jats etc
http://www.indpaedia.com/ind/index.php/The_Scavenger_Castes_(Punjab)

These semi nomadic people are found all over and maybe in Afghanistan too where they may have identified as awans. They use surnames like bhatti, khokhar, gill, sindhu in punjab etc who are not chuhras which mean adopted surnames.

1883 census

 

[django]

British documented that mussalis/chuhras in KP villages identify as jats etc
http://www.indpaedia.com/ind/index.php/The_Scavenger_Castes_(Punjab)

These semi nomadic people are found all over and maybe in Afghanistan too where they may have identified as awans. They use surnames like bhatti, khokhar, gill, sindhu in punjab etc who are not chuhras which mean adopted surnames.

1883 census

I have never encountered a Jat in KP, though Gujjars in Swat, it is possible these folks claiming to be Gujjars may well be very different than the influential zamindar gujjars of Punjab, perhaps @Mian Babban could clarify better their status in Swat, it is quite possible that mussali/marasi types ie fish sellers etc are latching onto Gujjar name.Kudos

 

[defence_analyst]

I have never encountered a Jat in KP, though Gujjars in Swat, it is possible these folks claiming to be Gujjars may well be very different than the influential zamindar gujjars of Punjab, perhaps @Mian Babban could clarify better their status in Swat, it is quite possible that mussali/marasi types ie fish sellers etc are latching onto Gujjar name.Kudos

No, they don't adopt gujjar surnames but jat or rajput and possibly awan. Nomadic gujars in Afghanistan and northen areas are real ones. Though its possible those living in gujjar majority villages when move out to cities start to identify as such.

 

[django]

No, they don't adopt gujjar surnames but jat or rajput and possibly awan. Nomadic gujars in Afghanistan and northen areas are real ones.

Have never encountered any Jats or Rajput in KPK I must say, only Gujjars and Awans that also exist prominently in Punjab.

 

[Ahmad Sajjad Paracha]

I have never encountered a Jat in KP, though Gujjars in Swat, it is possible these folks claiming to be Gujjars may well be very different than the influential zamindar gujjars of Punjab, perhaps @Mian Babban could clarify better their status in Swat, it is quite possible that mussali/marasi types ie fish sellers etc are latching onto Gujjar name.Kudos

There are many gujjars living in northern kpk like in Mansehra, Battgram, swat and might be in other areas too. In mansehra region till besham these people used to live on hills and would do live stock farming i don't know their orgin except they have been living there for a long time but on hills. Gujjars in these areas were never influential like they are or were in punjab but rather had low standard of living when these areas e.g mansehra swat etc. got developed with the passage of time and other castes like swatis,awans,syeds,tanolis,yousafzaigot settled here gujjars also started comming down and started settling in town and villages by getting employed as tennants in lands and servants of local residents. Gujjars have very high population all around the area they have their own culture and speak their own language locally called gojjri among themselves but they communicate in pashto and hinko with other people and to some extent have adopted local culture. Currently there are some gujjar politicians who are famous because of their political support in area and it is purely based on support given to them by gujjars and these political leaders work to improve living standard of gujjars but unfortunately they only work for gujjar community and totally ignore the rest of area or people. In present time Sardar Yousaf of PML(N) from mansehra is notable gujjar and Ameer Muqaam also of pmln from Swat is notable gujjar. I don't know whether it's a matter of coincidence that both are in pmln and previously were in pml(q) and before that they were in pmln again.

 

[django]

There are many gujjars living in northern kpk like in Mansehra, Battgram, swat and might be in other areas too. In mansehra region till besham these people used to live on hills and would do live stock farming i don't know their orgin except they have been living there for a long time but on hills. Gujjars in these areas were never influential like they are or were in punjab but rather had low standard of living when these areas e.g mansehra swat etc. got developed with the passage of time and other castes like swatis,awans,syeds,tanolis,yousafzaigot settled here gujjars also started comming down and started settling in town and villages by getting employed as tennants in lands and servants of local residents. Gujjars have very high population all around the area they have their own culture and speak their own language locally called gojjri among themselves but they communicate in pashto and hinko with other people and to some extent have adopted local culture. Currently there are some gujjar politicians who are famous because of their political support in area and it is purely based on support given to them by gujjars and these political leaders work to improve living standard of gujjars but unfortunately they only work for gujjar community and totally ignore the rest of area or people. In present time Sardar Yousaf of PML(N) from mansehra is notable gujjar and Ameer Muqaam also of pmln from Swat is notable gujjar. I don't know whether it's a matter of coincidence that both are in pmln and previously were in pml(q) and before that they were in pmln again.

Their are quite a few in Buner according to my friend from their, i suspect these Gujjars have different origins than say a Gujjar from haryana just like a Janjua or Ghakkar will have different origins than a Bihari Rajput or a Jat from Haryana will be different than a Jat from Muzzafrabad.Kudos ahmed

 

[H!TchHiker]

British documented that mussalis/chuhras in KP villages identify as jats etc
http://www.indpaedia.com/ind/index.php/The_Scavenger_Castes_(Punjab)

These semi nomadic people are found all over and maybe in Afghanistan too where they may have identified as awans. They use surnames like bhatti, khokhar, gill, sindhu in punjab etc who are not chuhras which mean adopted surnames.

1883 census

I don't get you...

 

[Pakistani E]

British documented that mussalis/chuhras in KP villages identify as jats etc
http://www.indpaedia.com/ind/index.php/The_Scavenger_Castes_(Punjab)

These semi nomadic people are found all over and maybe in Afghanistan too where they may have identified as awans. They use surnames like bhatti, khokhar, gill, sindhu in punjab etc who are not chuhras which mean adopted surnames.

1883 census

That may be the case, but I have always heard from other Awans that there are indeed some in Afghanistan, although in very small number. I usually go to my father for information on this subject and he confirmed to me that there were a small number of Awans there. Other people I have spoken to also confirm the same thing. Maybe you are right, but it would be difficult to confirm it unless someone found one of these and spoke to them.

Have never encountered any Jats or Rajput in KPK I must say, only Gujjars and Awans that also exist prominently in Punjab.

There are some Jats in KPK, I remember reading about some. Never heard of Rajputs there though.

 

[django]

There are some Jats in KPK, I remember reading about some. Never heard of Rajputs there though

Those are probably some vagabonds from KPK masquerading as Jats/Gujjars.Kudos bro

 

[defence_analyst]

That may be the case, but I have always heard from other Awans that there are indeed some in Afghanistan, although in very small number. I usually go to my father for information on this subject and he confirmed to me that there were a small number of Awans there. Other people I have spoken to also confirm the same thing. Maybe you are right, but it would be difficult to confirm it unless someone found one of these and spoke to them.



There are some Jats in KPK, I remember reading about some. Never heard of Rajputs there though.

Awans live in KP but not jats and rajputs. Maybe in Hazara division but in rest of KP chuhra comunity identified as jats according to British official census report. Though I doubt awans living in Afghanistan.