France plots new European military crisis force outside EU

[Dante80]

John Irish, Andrea Shalal ; Reuters 4.4.2018

PARIS/BERLIN (Reuters) - The French government will in June launch a deployable European military crisis force outside of existing European Union efforts, French Defence Ministry sources said on Wednesday.

FILE PHOTO: A French soldier patrols in a VAB (Vanguard Armoured Vehicle) during the regional anti-insurgent Operation Barkhane near Tin Hama, Mali, October 20, 2017.
REUTERS/Benoit Tessier/File Photo

Paris has been in touch with a dozen countries, including Germany, the Netherlands, Britain and Denmark, about the initiative, holding a working group to outline the idea in March.

The idea aims to bring together European countries with a military capacity and political desire to collaborate on planning, carry out joint analyses of emerging crises and to react to them quickly.

“It would not be within the European Union and would allow countries outside it, like Britain, to be part of it,” said one source.

French President Emmanuel Macron broadly outlined the idea to have a rapid European intervention force by the end of the decade during a landmark speech on Europe last September.

While some EU tactical interventional groups exist in principle, so far they have never been used.

FILE PHOTO: A French soldier stands by a mounted machine gun as he surveys the area during the regional anti-insurgent Operation Barkhane in Inaloglog, Mali, October 17, 2017.
REUTERS/Benoit Tessier/File Photo

The sources declined to name the countries that would be at a launch ceremony in Paris in June, but said it did not mean countries could not join it a later stage.

Germany, which has a historical resistance to military missions that included the use of force, in March appeared to back the plan given the need for a better European cooperation to crises.

However, it has previously emphasized the force should be folded into the new Permanent Structured Cooperation (PESCO) defense pact being set up between EU governments. French officials insist the new initiative will not cannibalize PESCO.

French Defence Minister Florence Parly will discuss the project with her German counterpart Ursula von der Leyen on Thursday in Paris.

“It’s creating a smaller group of countries that have common analysis and procedures,” said a second French defense source. “It would plug in the different military planning and operations centers,” said one source.

The source said its aim was to try to anticipate future crises, be it military conflicts or humanitarian such as the recent storms that hit the Caribbean, and avoid situations whereby one country would be forced to intervene alone, as France did in Central African Republic and Mali.

The project is not on a list of 17 joint projects initiatives, including a European armored infantry vehicle, agreed by the founding PESCO members.

PESCO members have yet to decide on whether to let non-member states join the projects, prolonging uncertainty over any future role for Britain after it leaves the EU next year.

FILE PHOTO: A French soldier from the 12th armoured regiment uses his binoculars from an armoured vehicle during the regional anti-insurgent Operation Barkhane in Inaloglog, Mali, October 17, 2017.
REUTERS/Benoit Tessier/File Photo

As Europe’s biggest military power along with France, Britain is central to European security efforts but has long blocked defense integration.

However, Britain is seeking a security treaty with the EU by 2019, worried out missing out on key weapons projects.

The eventual aim of PESCO is to develop and deploy forces together, backed by a multi-billion-euro fund for defense research and development that is now under negotiation.

“The EU’s second-biggest army is leaving the union so this multilateral project makes sense when everything is being broken up,” said a French military source.

 

[war&peace]

Then what's the future of NATO? I guess Europeans are getting tired of Trump's arrogance and stupidity

 

[Dante80]

Then what's the future of NATO? I guess Europeans are getting tired of Trump's arrogance and stupidity

Its a little weird, isn't it? Not only is this initiative a possible redundancy threat as far as the NATO defense pact is concerned, but it also can be viewed a fork of the EU PESCO defense pact (however adamant France proclaims to be about not cannibalizing it).

My hunch is that the France led initiative is trying a two-pronged approach. Disentangle the red tape that governs EU on joined foreign policy/military matters, and create a "core of the willing" against NATOs dysfunction (stemming from both a core lack of mission in the post-Cold War world and the problems the preponderance of members see in the latest US executive branch leading the pack).

Being automatically the top dogs in this does not hurt either ; France has a - pretty traditional by now - sense of uniqueness/freedom even inside the NATO and EU institutions, as far as foreign and military policy is concerned.

 

[vostok]

It is absolutely logical for Europe to ensure its own security. Europe is not a couple of banana colonies (though it looks like) and do not need a far-away countries to protect it. Their common defence budget is more than 200 bln dollars. And it is absolutely logical that it is France who is trying to force the creation of European militaty structures. On economy field France is not competitor for Germany but on military field things are opposite - France with no doubts is a leading military power of Europe.

 

[Cell_DbZ]

Then what's the future of NATO? I guess Europeans are getting tired of Trump's arrogance and stupidity

From what I feel there's a underlying 'ideology' of more Europe, which unavoidably means 'less America' or less anything, more independence so to speak. For example there are serious talks of unified or more integrated European army, which could mean undermining NATO. This sentiment existed even before Trump, of course he helped strengthen that sentiment.

 

[Vergennes]

It is absolutely logical for Europe to ensure its own security. Europe is not a couple of banana colonies (though it looks like) and do not need a far-away countries to protect it. Their common defence budget is more than 200 bln dollars. And it is absolutely logical that it is France who is trying to force the creation of European militaty structures. On economy field France is not competitor for Germany but on military field things are opposite - France with no doubts is a leading military power of Europe.

France has always tried to push and create a real "European defense",however always failed,thanks to our "beautiful partners".

What makes us think other European countries are going to deploy forces outside the EU to help its allies,to guarantee the safety of its citizens,protect its infrastructures and interests anywhere in the world ?

When France asked for military support to its European partners,they all agreed on principle,however few sent fighting troops alongside French soldiers anywhere in the world. (I have yet to see one in fact.)

The few countries that sent soldiers either sent few to train local forces or few to participate in UN missions in the countries French forces are present in. And local sources say they stay most of the time in their bases doing God knows only what.

In the Central African Republic,for the story,the country that deployed the highest number of troops to participate in the EU mission there was,ironically.... Georgia. A non-EU country.

 

[T-123456]

France has always tried to push and create a real "European defense",however always failed,thanks to our "beautiful partners".

What makes us think other European countries are going to deploy forces outside the EU to help its allies,to guarantee the safety of its citizens,protect its infrastructures and interests anywhere in the world ?

When France asked for military support to its European partners,they all agreed on principle,however few sent fighting troops alongside French soldiers anywhere in the world. (I have yet to see one in fact.)

The few countries that sent soldiers either sent few to train local forces or few to participate in UN missions in the countries French forces are present in. And local sources say they stay most of the time in their bases doing God knows only what.

In the Central African Republic,for the story,the country that deployed the highest number of troops to participate in the EU mission there was,ironically.... Georgia. A non-EU country.

View attachment 464250

The Netherlands sent some to Mali,two of them got killed.

 

[Cell_DbZ]

France has always tried to push and create a real "European defense",however always failed,thanks to our "beautiful partners".

What makes us think other European countries are going to deploy forces outside the EU to help its allies,to guarantee the safety of its citizens,protect its infrastructures and interests anywhere in the world ?

When France asked for military support to its European partners,they all agreed on principle,however few sent fighting troops alongside French soldiers anywhere in the world. (I have yet to see one in fact.)

The few countries that sent soldiers either sent few to train local forces or few to participate in UN missions in the countries French forces are present in. And local sources say they stay most of the time in their bases doing God knows only what.

In the Central African Republic,for the story,the country that deployed the highest number of troops to participate in the EU mission there was,ironically.... Georgia. A non-EU country.

View attachment 464250

Hey now! Belgium sent 2 c130h hercules transport planes, 2 A109 Agusta medical evacuation choppers and 80 medical army staff, that's probably more than half our army!

Well, sadly, the 'more Europe' is just talk from our European bureaucrats who got their panties in a twist when nationalists came up (Brexit, Trump), threatening their globalist wet dream and more importantly their pockets.

If they would want a true unified Europe, they should let people have an actual say in it (and I am not sure those people are all that willing to have a European superstate)

 

[Dai Toruko]

Sounds like 1940's German occupation army. Making sure the EU states don't fall out of line.

 

[war&peace]

From what I feel there's a underlying 'ideology' of more Europe, which unavoidably means 'less America' or less anything, more independence so to speak. For example there are serious talks of unified or more integrated European army, which could mean undermining NATO. This sentiment existed even before Trump, of course he helped strengthen that sentiment.

So it will stay an idea...I don't think it can be realised. Countries are happy with NATO or without it but I don't think they feel any reason to be part of another unnecessary military alliance. UK has strong relations with their English speaking brothers in North America while Scandinavia is unwilling to be part of anything since they did not damage any country in the past or present.

 

[Cell_DbZ]

So it will stay an idea...I don't think it can be realised.

I am afraid that it is indeed the reality for the at least the near future.

Countries are happy with NATO or without it but I don't think they feel any reason to be part of another unnecessary military alliance.

Well an European army would make NATO redundant and if the European countries really felt the need for more protection, they should start spending 2% of their GDP (Belgium spends barely half of that).

UK has strong relations with their English speaking brothers in North America

Well Brexit seperated the mainland and U.K. and U.K. was always a vocal opponent to such an unified European army.