France grants active duty status to the Provence FREMM frigate

[Vergennes]

The French Navy FREMM frigate Provence is given active duty status. DCNS photo.




PARIS, June 10 (UPI) -- The second FREMM frigate of the French Navy has been given active duty status, the French Navy reports.

The status of the Provence was announced on Thursday by the chief of staff of the French Navy, Adm. Bernard Rogel.

It follows the multi-mission frigate's participation in a number of operations.

At the end of 2015, Provence was integrated into Task Force 58, which centers on the U.S. aircraft carrier USS Harry Truman. Earlier this year, she joined her sister ship, the Aquitaine, in the French carrier group deployed during operation Arromanches 2 in the Middle East.

France's FREMM frigates, built by DCNS, are 466 feet long and have a speed of about 27 knots. Their range is 6,000 nautical miles.

They are the lead ships for French Navy escort missions and are used in anti-ship, anti-submarine and anti-air warfare missions.

http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Se...e-duty-status-to-FREMM-frigate/2671465569082/

 

[Blue Marlin]

no offence but i prefer the italian fremm

 

[Taygibay]

i prefer the italian fremm

Why?
Because they managed to hike RCS with that cluttered front section and main mast and that's more fair play?

Oh well, of colours and tastes ... Tay.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Why?
Because they managed to hike RCS with that cluttered front section and main mast and that's more fair play?

Oh well, of colours and tastes ... Tay.

it has a better sensor suite than the french fremm.

 

[Taygibay]

So you're pitting Artemis https://www.thalesgroup.com/sites/default/files/asset/document/artemis_a4_en_042014_ref_103a_0.pdf
at SASS
http://www.aiad.it/aiad_res/cms/documents/SELEXGALILEOSASSSilentAcquisitionSurveillanceSystem.pdf
The only drawback I noted was the absence of the 8-12 μm band in the former but,
just as with the OSF_NG, it only matters that the mission be fulfilled. I trust it will.

So too, you must be pitting sonars but those are the same as hull ones go, UMS 4110
https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/worldwide/defence/ums-4110-hull-mounted-sonar
and still the same as towed arrays are concerned, CAPTAS 4.
https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/worldwide/defence/captas-4-variable-depth-sonar

And finally, you must be pitting Herakles
https://www.thalesgroup.com/sites/d...ment/tha0053_datasheet_herakles_ds_167_hr.pdf
at Kronos Grand.
http://www.leonardocompany.com/en/-/kronos-grand-1

That's the main difference in those class' sensors. And it does favour the Italians with 50km more range.
The same goes with a hundred more tracks ( no matter how unlikely ) to the MMI ships.
However, and despite the AESA over PESA argument, the Thales sensor has better elevation coverage
which the flat AESA antenna obtains by relying on a mechanical repositionner bringing its tracking time
to a conservative 1 second refresh.

I'd like to say you were right but I think proper tactics might equalize this fight. The differences are really
not important enough to pick a clear cut winner here, especially since as I said, the MMI FREMM will strike
a bigger echo due to lost compactness and stealth.

And by looks alone, I'll keep ours, TYVM!

Besides, you have those Type 26 coming that might well take the palm/laurels.

Have a great day, Tay.

 

[Blue Marlin]

So you're pitting Artemis https://www.thalesgroup.com/sites/default/files/asset/document/artemis_a4_en_042014_ref_103a_0.pdf
at SASS
http://www.aiad.it/aiad_res/cms/documents/SELEXGALILEOSASSSilentAcquisitionSurveillanceSystem.pdf
The only drawback I noted was the absence of the 8-12 μm band in the former but,
just as with the OSF_NG, it only matters that the mission be fulfilled. I trust it will.

So too, you must be pitting sonars but those are the same as hull ones go, UMS 4110
https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/worldwide/defence/ums-4110-hull-mounted-sonar
and still the same as towed arrays are concerned, CAPTAS 4.
https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/worldwide/defence/captas-4-variable-depth-sonar

And finally, you must be pitting Herakles
https://www.thalesgroup.com/sites/d...ment/tha0053_datasheet_herakles_ds_167_hr.pdf
at Kronos Grand.
http://www.leonardocompany.com/en/-/kronos-grand-1

That's the main difference in those class' sensors. And it does favour the Italians with 50km more range.
The same goes with a hundred more tracks ( no matter how unlikely ) to the MMI ships.
However, and despite the AESA over PESA argument, the Thales sensor has better elevation coverage
which the flat AESA antenna obtains by relying on a mechanical repositionner bringing its tracking time
to a conservative 1 second refresh.

I'd like to say you were right but I think proper tactics might equalize this fight. The differences are really
not important enough to pick a clear cut winner here, especially since as I said, the MMI FREMM will strike
a bigger echo due to lost compactness and stealth.

And by looks alone, I'll keep ours, TYVM!

Besides, you have those Type 26 coming that might well take the palm/laurels.

Have a great day, Tay.

frenchy i will respond to your post but first must tag me.
here let me help you fist you put an "@" sign followed by the username so it would be @username
have a go

 

[MICA]

no offence but i prefer the italian fremm

It's a better frigate in terms of Air defense

 

[Blue Marlin]

It's a better frigate in terms of Air defense

the Héraklès multi-purpose on the french fremm and also on the eygption frigates has a range of 250km air search and 80km syrface whilst the selex mfra has a range of over 300km so in terms oddection range and reaction times the italian frigate is better the missiles are the same aster15/30

 

[MICA]

the Héraklès multi-purpose on the french fremm and also on the eygption frigates has a range of 250km air search and 80km syrface whilst the selex mfra has a range of over 300km so in terms oddection range and reaction times the italian frigate is better the missiles are the same aster15/30

The french fremm operates only Aster 15 while the Italian fremm operates Aster 30 with a slightly better radar , so till now the italian fremm got the lead only in terms of Air defense

In the future though the french fremm will operate the new sea fire 500 aesa radar with the aster 30 as a new variant for Air defense purpose

 

[Penguin]

no offence but i prefer the italian fremm

This is the GP version, not the ASW version (127mm gun forward, 76mm on the hangar).

It's a better frigate in terms of Air defense

In the med, it need to be.

The last two FREMM hulls in 2021/2 for the French will be fitted out as FREDA air-defence ships to replace the Cassard class. DCNS has shown a FREMM-ER concept to meet this requirement, emphasising ballistic missile defence with the Thales Sea Fire 500 AESA radar.

https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/worl...-fire-500-new-multifunction-fixed-array-radar

At 3:00m: "extended air defence beyond 400km"

 

[Blue Marlin]

This is the GP version, not the ASW version (127mm gun forward, 76mm on the hangar).


In the med, it need to be.

The last two FREMM hulls in 2021/2 for the French will be fitted out as FREDA air-defence ships to replace the Cassard class. DCNS has shown a FREMM-ER concept to meet this requirement, emphasising ballistic missile defence with the Thales Sea Fire 500 AESA radar.

https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/worl...-fire-500-new-multifunction-fixed-array-radar

At 3:00m: "extended air defence beyond 400km"

so its kinda like the smart-l elr /s1850m which is at 480km which are on the horizon frigates/type 45 destroyers. they may as well be classed as destroyers

one of my fave pics of the type 45

actully what is you favourite frigate/destroyer? is it the zeven provincien class frigate

mind you a ship of that caliber its not even worth calling a frigate its more in the destroyer territory

 

[Penguin]

All Italian FREMM-ITs have extended AAW capabilities, with SAAM-ESD CMS and Aster 30 (& Aster 15) missiles for extended area defence. SAAM-ESD CMS use Selex ES MFRA, a 3D active radar (AESA), an evolved version of the Selex ES EMPAR PESA radar (previously embarked on Horizon-class destroyers and the aircraft carrier Cavour).

FREMM-IT 9 & 10 will have AAW & ATBM capabilities and will have A70 VLS for cruise missiles. The Selex ES MFRA 4FF (EMPAR's evolved version, destined for the 9th and 10th FREMM) will have four flat radar sensors, with three times the original range and full ATBM capabilities.

There appears to be 2 Kronos versions: Kronos Naval and Kronos Grand Naval. Which is on Bergamini class?
http://www.leonardocompany.com/en/p...nce/radar-systems/aesa-multifunctional-radars

Kronos Naval
Operating band C-Band
Antenna technology Active Full Phased Array, TX/RX solid state modules
Antenna rotation speed 60rpm
Electronic scanning capability ±45° Azimuth ±60° Elevation
Surveillance range 250Km
Tracking update rate Up to 1 second
Elevation coverage Up to 85° in tracking
Up to 70° in surveillance
Number of tracks Up to 300
Weight above deck 970kg (IFF Included)
Integrated IFF and SLB antennas 4 channels for primary radar and 2 channels for secondary radar
MTBCF >2000h
MTTR <45 min (TRM plug-in)
EMI/EMC Qualified MIL-STD-461E
Climatic environment Qualified MIL-STD-810F
Mechanical Qualified MIL-STD-167-1A
http://www.leonardocompany.com/en/-/kronos-naval

Kronos Grand Naval
Operating band C-Band
Antenna technology Active Full Phased Array, TX/RX solid state modules
Antenna rotation speed 60rpm
Electronic scanning capability ±45° Az, ±60° El
Maximum Surveillance range > 300Km
Mechanical Rotation speed 1 second
Elevation coverage Up to 85° in tracking
Number of tracks > 300
Uplink transmission For precise active missile guidance
Integrated IFF and SLB antennas 4 channels for primary radar and 2 channels for secondary radar
available
MTBCF > 3000h
MTTR < 45 min (TRM plug-in)
EMI/EMC Qualified MIL-STD-461E
Climatic environment Qualified MIL--STD-810F
Mechanical Qualified MIL- STD-167-1A
http://www.leonardocompany.com/en/-/kronos-grand-naval-1

Herakles (E/F-band PESA)
Performance data
3D air domain 250 km
Surface domain 80 km
Coverage 0 to 250 km, 360º in azimuth, 0 to 70º in elevation
Track capacity > 400 air + surface
Monopulse + dedicated tracking for all air targets
Splash spotting function for re control on surface targets
https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/worldwide/defence/herakles-multifunction-radar

 

[Penguin]

And when hammering on a 50km range difference of the radars, please recall:

Any low flyers will be detected much later. High divers may also be missed.
Max range against an aircraft target tends to be much more than against a missile target.

I believe the French operate E2C Hawkeye's with either APS-139 radar (up to 600 tracks up to a range of nearly 565km miles and with passive ESM systems can extend the detection range to beyond 1125km) or APS-145 (more than 2000 tracks, controlled interception of 40 hostile targets at ranges over 550km), whereas the Italians operate AgustaWestland EH101 AEW with Eliradar HEW-784 radar in large underfuselage radome (range about 250 km, 100-200km against missiles)

 

[Taygibay]

please recall:

Which as the second diagram shows, is why we have embarked AEW/AWACS.

Besides, part of the Provence's acceptation trials was protecting Task Force 58
and rumours say she detected the Iranian drone from far enough to allow choppers
from both nations to follow its fly-over.
http://accesswdun.com/article/2016/2/369009


Such things take time BTW, the Languedoc was received in October 2015 and
just passed its operational qualification :
http://www.defense.gouv.fr/marine/a...ionnelle-sans-reserve-pour-la-fremm-languedoc
So six months plus in real use yet to join our first 2 FREMMs.

And good evening all, Tay.