France finalizing plan for new Rafale F3-R standard

[FOX80]

SOURCE: IDRW NEWS NETWORK ( INN )

Aircraft-maker Dassault Aviation along with French defence ministry is working out plans to bring in new upgrades to their Rafale jets which will include a new-generation laser targeting pod, According to reports, the Rafale is being upgraded to a new standard with major software upgrades and will known as the Rafale F3R.

The upgrade will complement the enhanced Thales RBE2 active electronically-scanned array (AESA) radar which will allow the aircraft to deploy the MBDA Meteor Beyond Visual Range Air-to-Air Missile (BVRAAM), along with affording improvements to the aircraft’s Thales SPECTRA self-defence system and Mode-5/Mode-S-compatible Identification Friend or Foe interrogator/transponder.

French air force already has taken delivery of Thales RBE2 active electronically-scanned array (AESA) radar Rafale aircraft last year , F3R will bring in the latest generation of missile warning systems and various improvements in human-machine interface making Rafale become even more efficient, lethal, sustainable, reliable and easy to maintain.

 

[he-man]

what are we getting??

 

[Taygibay]

That is not quite a news? Let me explain :
The contract to Dassault for preliminary studies on the F3_R was awarded at the end of 2012.
The DGA ( Mili armament engineering body ) confirmed that it was on the job by February 2013 :
Rafale : la DGA lance le standard F3-R - Air&Cosmos

The content was then identified as fitting the needs for the 2018 Rafale which means :
The PDL-NG to replace the Damocles present one;
completed Meteor integration;
IFF mode 5/S
new Link 16 modes
Additional Spectra capacities.

Here is the best English language source I could find quickly.
French To Boost R&D Across Multiple Programs | Defense News | defensenews.com

So to summarize, the plan laid out last year will be confirmed in the next few days ( meaning within 2013 IMHoO ) and thus confirms that the general program is following due course in its development and that despite the scare mongering interpretations of some in the foreign press, the Rafale is on par for its evolution.
Which is not true news for close observers especially French ones as it was the plan all along?

The PDL-Ng confirmation might be the only industrial gain here. As for a specific answer to He-Man :
it is hard to link this properly to the MMRCA deal until we know the specific developments and modifications asked by the GoI and IAF. But of course, it is probably reassuring to some extent to see that the program is on track?

Good day all, Tay.

 

[sancho]

what are we getting??

The version proposed in the MMRCA was the F3+, which will be inducted into French forces currently, however IAF requirements are different and would use other data links, a dedicated IRST, HMS, most likely the integration of the Litening LDP and possibly some Israeli weapons.
The F3R is mainly focused on the requirements of French forces and not on export customers. Except of Meteor and some upgraded SPECTRA features there is hardly anything important for us. PDL NG would only be useful as a joint development, otherwise it's too costly and not worth to wait so long, when we can simply get and upgrade Litening pods to the latest standard and use them for all fighters in the fleet.
More interesting than the F3R, would be customisations of the UAE, if they select Rafale. They already cleared the integration of an own PGM with stand off capability, that might be not only a cheaper but also better alternative to AASM. They reportedly also want the integration of SLAM-ER, to use it instead of Exocet and as a cheaper alternative to stand off strikes with Scalp / Black Shaheen. Not to mention that radar and EW upgrades are still considered as possibilities. The only problem is, they don't really want new fighters and keep on upgrading their M2K-9s, so a possible Rafale deal will take most likely as much time as the F3R needs, 2018 and beyond.

 

[he-man]

The version proposed in the MMRCA was the F3+, which will be inducted into French forces currently, however IAF requirements are different and would use other data links, a dedicated IRST, HMS, most likely the integration of the Litening LDP and possibly some Israeli weapons.
The F3R is mainly focused on the requirements of French forces and not on export customers. Except of Meteor and some upgraded SPECTRA features there is hardly anything important for us. PDL NG would only be useful as a joint development, otherwise it's too costly and not worth to wait so long, when we can simply get and upgrade Litening pods to the latest standard and use them for all fighters in the fleet.
More interesting than the F3R, would be customisations of the UAE, if they select Rafale. They already cleared the integration of an own PGM with stand off capability, that might be not only a cheaper but also better alternative to AASM. They reportedly also want the integration of SLAM-ER, to use it instead of Exocet and as a cheaper alternative to stand off strikes with Scalp / Black Shaheen. Not to mention that radar and EW upgrades are still considered as possibilities. The only problem is, they don't really want new fighters and keep on upgrading their M2K-9s, so a possible Rafale deal will take most likely as much time as the F3R needs, 2018 and beyond.

what waiting??we will be producing rafale starting in mid 2017-18 if deal is signed next year so we are not wasting any time per se
secondly rafale irst is the best around(along with typhoon pirate irst) in all the current 4.5 gen fighter with range of 145 km in tail chase compared to 90 km for su-35 and it can track way more than ols-35!!
so what do u mean by dedicated irst??
yes data links will be our own as we cannot use link 16

 

[sancho]

what waiting??we will be producing rafale starting in mid 2017-18 if deal is signed next year so we are not wasting any time per se
secondly rafale irst is the best around(along with typhoon pirate irst) in all the current 4.5 gen fighter with range of 145 km in tail chase compared to 90 km for su-35 and it can track way more than ols-35!!
so what do u mean by dedicated irst??
yes data links will be our own as we cannot use link 16

Producing, but the first squad is meant to arrive before we start producing them on our own, besides that you can only transfer technology of techs that already are developed, but the F3R techs and capabilities will be developed only for 2018, so PDL NG will, or an upgraded M88-X won't be ready for our production line at the begining.
That are specs in ideal situations, but weather conditions will be critical for the performance of an IRST and FSO IR channel wasn't that good and French pilots seems to prefer the TV channel. That's why the F3+ has an improved TV channel, but no IR channel anymore. IRST is available as an option for export customers (which most likely will be part of the offsets in MMRCA, with production diverted to Samtel) and MICA IR seekers at reduced range.

 

[he-man]

Producing, but the first squad is meant to arrive before we start producing them on our own, besides that you can only transfer technology of techs that already are developed, but the F3R techs and capabilities will be developed only for 2018, so PDL NG will, or an upgraded M88-X won't be ready for our production line at the begining.
That are specs in ideal situations, but weather conditions will be critical for the performance of an IRST and FSO IR channel wasn't that good and French pilots seems to prefer the TV channel. That's why the F3+ has an improved TV channel, but no IR channel anymore. IRST is available as an option for export customers (which most likely will be part of the offsets in MMRCA, with production diverted to Samtel) and MICA IR seekers at reduced range.

so in easy language irst is not good enough??
and what about irst in su-35 and in mki then??

 

[sancho]

so in easy language irst is not good enough??
and what about irst in su-35 and in mki then??

IRST is important since it's an alternative to the use of active radar, but you can't take paper specs of their performance for granted. For fighters with low RCS or even stealth capabilities, passive detection is crucial, but that includes RWR, or ESM capabilities too, not only IRST.
For Rafale the IR channel will be important for the detection too, but with using SPECTRA and the FSO-TV channel has been proven as an advantage in BVR combats, so it's not necessarily dependent on that.

 

[Taygibay]

Sancho, my friend, your answer concerning the OSF is partly incorrect. The original IR way relied on technologies that were being phased out. As the new solutions were still in development but not ready, the money for them was divested to more pressing upgrades.
Then 2 things happened : A-) the use of wing-tips MICA IR sensors provided a temporary solution ... ( albeit a very imperfect one since as I explained many times on many fora, once those missiles are launched for use, so is your IR sensor *facepalm* ) and B-) the new OSF IT TV channel gathers from the InfraRed spectrum ( NIR-SWIR ), something which engineers and folks dabbling in surveillance cameras will confirm.
This second part though is, as you correctly pointed out, then to be seen relative to the performances of SPECTRA which explains why the development of the dedicated IR channel was dropped.

But if India / IAF wants its own, homemade or imported, as long as it fits the size and shape of the empty location for it, they should/could get one! Doesn'T BEL have some techs available that could be expanded into a local product?

Good day all, Tay.

 

[sancho]

Sancho, my friend, your answer concerning the OSF is partly incorrect. The original IR way relied on technologies that were being phased out.

It wasn't really phased out, the production stopped since French forces decided not to procure it anymore (most likely to safe some money) and now all official brochures and statements from Thales shows it as optional. The problem with the option is only that it is not worth it to produce the IRST for small numbers and that's where India comes into the picture:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-SVooL1kVeEE/URgRzHpBbnI/AAAAAAAAD_Q/mwbqyUQHpfU/s1600/SAMTEL-THALES-1.jpg


There were some Indian IRST developments too, but it's unlikely that they have the maturity that is needed, nor that Thales would allow the integration of another IR channel into FSO, without gaining benefits too.
If Thales would play it smart, they could use this as a chance to further develop the IR channel with an Indian partner, just like they should offer a joint development for PDL NG with BEL, but so far it doesn't look that way.

 

[Taygibay]

Too bad then as your option seems quite credible to me! ^^^^^

And Phased out did stand for that : was to be upgraded / which was not decided upon / which played in the decision to procure / etc; simple vicious circle there.
But indeed there was an obsolescence of the components crucial to it that added itself to the thing being a little too fragile for proper mili use. I don't have the links at hand but in paper form, I have articles dating back from 2004 stating the obsolescence prob.
You can check TMor's old Rafale forum to find it discussed 5 years back :
The International Rafale forum • View topic - OSF problems

Good day mensch, Tay!