Madali
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I've been thinking about this for a long time now, and I decided to make a small thread here, where I will hopefully add to it in the future to better make my case.
I've changed the title of the this thread a few times. Not sure if I wanted to call them "leaders" or "revolutionaries" or some other word, because neither was what I'm looking for. I'll change if for something better.Ruhollah KhomeiniFormer Supreme Leader of Iran
Here are the criteria that are important for me:
1) Have the guts to go ahead with a reform, whatever the backlash
2) Be able to stand against world powers
3) Be willing to be fight with the elites
4) Not caring about one's own future
5) Iran above all else
What do such leaders have in common?
1) Hated by the west
2) Hated by the system elites
3) Loved by the kind of people whose voices are rarely heard
4) Opposition goes to great length to get rid of him
These are:
AMIR KABIR
Mohammad Mosaddegh
Ruhollah Khomeini
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
I know that Ahmadinejad might be an unorthodox choice, but before I go on, notice how much time plays a part.
Look at the choices. No Iranian will dispute the first choice. Everyone will agree to it, whether pro IRI or anti IRI, whether religious or secular.
Okay, now look at the next choice. Still overwhelming will support the choice, but there will be a few groups that will be against him. So, already we are having less consensus.
Then the third choice has even less with bigger groups who are against the choice. Finally, the fourth person who will seem will have the highest number of disagreements.
So, with that, before you jump to any conclusions, take a moment to consider that. Here are four figures who people agree more with the more we go back in time. Therefore, remove yourself from the trapping of the present and try to look at it objectively.
Now, let’s look at the four criteria’s they have in common.
One example is the use of terrorism. I will use two lines from the Time article on the two figures, and leave Ahmadinejad because I’m sure we all can remember many instances of it.
Time in 1953 on Mossadeq: “He controls the Teheran mobs (except those controlled by the Communists), and his terrorist organization assassinated Razmara.”
Time in 1980 on Khomeini: “As the leader of Iran’s revolution he gave the 20th century world a frightening lesson in the shattering power of irrationality, of the ease with which terrorism can be adopted as government policy.”
Personal attacks is another example. In the Time article on Mossadeq, you have phrases like “weeping, fainting leader” and “strange old wizard”. With Khomeini, we have “The dour old man of 79 shuffles in his heel-less slippers” or “The hooded eyes that glare out so balefully from beneath his black turban”. In 2007, Time choose Ahmadenijad as one of the Worst Dressed Presidents, with lines like “he opts for simple cotton shirts topped with his trademark, a $30 Chinese-made khaki windbreaker purchased from a Tehran bazaar” or in another article, they headline it with “Ahmadenijad the Long-Winded”
Hopefully, in the future, I’ll try to gather quotations about the leaders to show how easily they could be applied to each other. For example, who do you think this quotation, from a Time article, is applied to? ““In this way, too, he increased the danger of a general war among nations, impoverished his country and brought it and some neighboring lands to the very brink of disaster.”
2. Hated by the system elites
All four had the absolute biggest critics among the elites in their OWN government. Amir Kabir was hated so much by the elites in the government that he was assassinated. The elites surrounding Mossadeq were more than happy when he was put under house arrest. After the revolution was done, Khomeini would receive a lot of critical attacks from the elites, from the first President Bani-Sadr to even his long-time friend, Ayatollah Mortezavi. And we know that Ahmadenijad’s biggest opponents were not from outside, but from inside, the Rafsanjanis and the Larejanis and anyone who didn’t like someone rocking the boat.
3. Loved by the people whose voices are rarely heard
Amir Kabir apparently had a huge funeral turnout. Mossadeq has turned into a hero for any political intellectual today. Khomeini has the backing of the public behind him. Ahmadenijad was, to the utter surprise of every armchair critic, won two elections, and even today, when he gives a speech, it has a huge turnout.
4. Opposition goes to great length to get rid of him
Amir was assassinated, Mossadeq put under house arrest, Khomeini was sent into exile but even after the revolution, they wanted to turn him into a figurehead without any power. With Ahmadenijad, we know of course, three years after he is out of office, still the opposition attacks him.
Now, look at the other attributes they have and see how they fit,
1. Have the guts to go ahead with a reform, whatever the backlash
Amir did whatever reform he thought was right and didn’t care what the elites thought. Mossadeq didn’t care that nationalization of the oil industry would have economic concerns. We know how directly Khomeini would take his actions or make his statements. Ahmadinejad would make decisive reforms, such as changing the government’s subsidiary on certain goods which all previous governments wanted to do but no one had the guts.
2. Be able to stand against world powers
During the Qajar period, Amir was the only one who was willing to have some balls in regards to world powers. Mossadeq was willing to kick out the British. Khomeini told us that USA can’t do a damn thing. And Ahmadenijad always stood his ground.
3. Be willing to be fight with the elites
None of them where concerned about facing the elites of their system. Ahmadenijad was willing to stand firm against any of the elites and that pissed them off. Remember, I’m talking about their own peers, the way Khomeini was a rebel among the clerics in Qom
4. Not caring about one's own future
All four were willing to do what they thought right, and not give much thought about their own future. Ahmadenijad could have been hand in hand with Rafsanjani and Larijani and didn’t start the nuclear program, and no one would have said much about him.
5. Iran above all else
All four believe in Iran’s capabilities more than Iranians themselves believed in it.
--
Some of you might wonder why I didn’t add Khamenei. That’s why I wasn’t sure what headline to use.
Khamenei is, of course, a brilliant leader, especially given that he is able to hold the country so well in all these years. But the word I’m looking for is something other than “leader”, I guess, because the other four aren’t careful, catious, smart, political leaders who are almost chess players.
--
Let me now mention Zarif briefly. The comparisons that Iranian reformist media compares him to Amir Kabir or Mossadeq is laughable. See how many of the above criterias or attributes can be shared with Zarif and Amir Kabir or Mossadeq.
I've changed the title of the this thread a few times. Not sure if I wanted to call them "leaders" or "revolutionaries" or some other word, because neither was what I'm looking for. I'll change if for something better.Ruhollah KhomeiniFormer Supreme Leader of Iran
Here are the criteria that are important for me:
1) Have the guts to go ahead with a reform, whatever the backlash
2) Be able to stand against world powers
3) Be willing to be fight with the elites
4) Not caring about one's own future
5) Iran above all else
What do such leaders have in common?
1) Hated by the west
2) Hated by the system elites
3) Loved by the kind of people whose voices are rarely heard
4) Opposition goes to great length to get rid of him
These are:
AMIR KABIR
Mohammad Mosaddegh
Ruhollah Khomeini
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
I know that Ahmadinejad might be an unorthodox choice, but before I go on, notice how much time plays a part.
Look at the choices. No Iranian will dispute the first choice. Everyone will agree to it, whether pro IRI or anti IRI, whether religious or secular.
Okay, now look at the next choice. Still overwhelming will support the choice, but there will be a few groups that will be against him. So, already we are having less consensus.
Then the third choice has even less with bigger groups who are against the choice. Finally, the fourth person who will seem will have the highest number of disagreements.
So, with that, before you jump to any conclusions, take a moment to consider that. Here are four figures who people agree more with the more we go back in time. Therefore, remove yourself from the trapping of the present and try to look at it objectively.
Now, let’s look at the four criteria’s they have in common.
- Hated by the west
One example is the use of terrorism. I will use two lines from the Time article on the two figures, and leave Ahmadinejad because I’m sure we all can remember many instances of it.
Time in 1953 on Mossadeq: “He controls the Teheran mobs (except those controlled by the Communists), and his terrorist organization assassinated Razmara.”
Time in 1980 on Khomeini: “As the leader of Iran’s revolution he gave the 20th century world a frightening lesson in the shattering power of irrationality, of the ease with which terrorism can be adopted as government policy.”
Personal attacks is another example. In the Time article on Mossadeq, you have phrases like “weeping, fainting leader” and “strange old wizard”. With Khomeini, we have “The dour old man of 79 shuffles in his heel-less slippers” or “The hooded eyes that glare out so balefully from beneath his black turban”. In 2007, Time choose Ahmadenijad as one of the Worst Dressed Presidents, with lines like “he opts for simple cotton shirts topped with his trademark, a $30 Chinese-made khaki windbreaker purchased from a Tehran bazaar” or in another article, they headline it with “Ahmadenijad the Long-Winded”
Hopefully, in the future, I’ll try to gather quotations about the leaders to show how easily they could be applied to each other. For example, who do you think this quotation, from a Time article, is applied to? ““In this way, too, he increased the danger of a general war among nations, impoverished his country and brought it and some neighboring lands to the very brink of disaster.”
2. Hated by the system elites
All four had the absolute biggest critics among the elites in their OWN government. Amir Kabir was hated so much by the elites in the government that he was assassinated. The elites surrounding Mossadeq were more than happy when he was put under house arrest. After the revolution was done, Khomeini would receive a lot of critical attacks from the elites, from the first President Bani-Sadr to even his long-time friend, Ayatollah Mortezavi. And we know that Ahmadenijad’s biggest opponents were not from outside, but from inside, the Rafsanjanis and the Larejanis and anyone who didn’t like someone rocking the boat.
3. Loved by the people whose voices are rarely heard
Amir Kabir apparently had a huge funeral turnout. Mossadeq has turned into a hero for any political intellectual today. Khomeini has the backing of the public behind him. Ahmadenijad was, to the utter surprise of every armchair critic, won two elections, and even today, when he gives a speech, it has a huge turnout.
4. Opposition goes to great length to get rid of him
Amir was assassinated, Mossadeq put under house arrest, Khomeini was sent into exile but even after the revolution, they wanted to turn him into a figurehead without any power. With Ahmadenijad, we know of course, three years after he is out of office, still the opposition attacks him.
Now, look at the other attributes they have and see how they fit,
1. Have the guts to go ahead with a reform, whatever the backlash
Amir did whatever reform he thought was right and didn’t care what the elites thought. Mossadeq didn’t care that nationalization of the oil industry would have economic concerns. We know how directly Khomeini would take his actions or make his statements. Ahmadinejad would make decisive reforms, such as changing the government’s subsidiary on certain goods which all previous governments wanted to do but no one had the guts.
2. Be able to stand against world powers
During the Qajar period, Amir was the only one who was willing to have some balls in regards to world powers. Mossadeq was willing to kick out the British. Khomeini told us that USA can’t do a damn thing. And Ahmadenijad always stood his ground.
3. Be willing to be fight with the elites
None of them where concerned about facing the elites of their system. Ahmadenijad was willing to stand firm against any of the elites and that pissed them off. Remember, I’m talking about their own peers, the way Khomeini was a rebel among the clerics in Qom
4. Not caring about one's own future
All four were willing to do what they thought right, and not give much thought about their own future. Ahmadenijad could have been hand in hand with Rafsanjani and Larijani and didn’t start the nuclear program, and no one would have said much about him.
5. Iran above all else
All four believe in Iran’s capabilities more than Iranians themselves believed in it.
--
Some of you might wonder why I didn’t add Khamenei. That’s why I wasn’t sure what headline to use.
Khamenei is, of course, a brilliant leader, especially given that he is able to hold the country so well in all these years. But the word I’m looking for is something other than “leader”, I guess, because the other four aren’t careful, catious, smart, political leaders who are almost chess players.
--
Let me now mention Zarif briefly. The comparisons that Iranian reformist media compares him to Amir Kabir or Mossadeq is laughable. See how many of the above criterias or attributes can be shared with Zarif and Amir Kabir or Mossadeq.
